GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 8

[Solitaryone]

I've often wondered if this was a home invasion that went wrong from the beginning. Wrong address, perhaps, to start. Regardless, let's say that the home invaders thought that there was a safe or a cache, and were trying to get the D's to give up a combination or location. Let's say, perhaps, that they figured that Mr. D wasn't going to say anything, so the plan was to hold a gun to his head and have Mrs. D give the combo/location. Perhaps the gun went off in a struggle or by accident, and Mr. D was shot in the head. Perp 2 might have said to Perp 1 -- 'oops -- hey bro, that gun is traceable/isn't clean', and so they decided to decapitate Mr. D (perhaps later) to remove the bullet that could be traced to, say, some other crime through ballistics. Then they thought something like 'well, Mrs. D will be a witness, so let's kill her now and put her body in the lake to remove as much evidence as we can'.

Just a theory, but I think that the 'home invasion gone wrong' theory is possible. It has certainly happened many, many times before.

This is pretty much how I see it too. I do go back and forth on whether there were one or two involved, but lately I've been leaning more to two involved. I wonder if Mrs. Dermond was punched and/or was able to scratch the killer(s), or pull out some hair. Something the killer(s) would be afraid that DNA on Mrs. Dermond would link him/them to the murders. I also think the possibility of creating a diversion for LE could also be a reason for hiding Mrs. Dermond in the lake. Listening to Sheriff Sills latest interview is discouraging! I like Sheriff Sills, and believe he will solve this case, but now it's looking to be a long wait.

What is it going to take to find out who did this? I'm thinking someone close to the killer(s) will eventually talk to someone else, who in turn will either eventually tell LE, or tell someone who will. I sure hope some kind of evidence will turn up pointing in the right direction! :banghead:

 

[Suthrnqt]

Just a thought. It just seems like to me that if Mrs. D's body wasn't meant to be found, it wouldn't have been. She could have been taken far, far away and then disposed (sorry for the wording) of in a way so she was never found.
Instead, she was 'placed' in the lake. IDK.
I tend to agree with Ocean: the perp(s) are from that community. MOO

 

[Solitaryone]

Shooting = noise unless a silencer is used. Too risky without one. Elderly will go down with one blow to the head. I think her surprising the perp at some point is certainly a good possibility. Leave her and you have a double murder investigation, but take her and the diversion is much greater. That's why if it was well thought out, the plan may have been to take her out and away from the beginning.

My opinion from what I have read here and in msm is that this was to hide or avoid something that RD was involved with or knew about, and the gruesomeness was just a product of an incredibly diabolical but cunning mind. Probably lots of cunning minds in and around Great Waters, so high chance someone knew where they were at all times and blended in.

Interesting take on things! What do you think Mr. Dermond was involved in/knew something about that would be the catalyst for these murders? When you say someone knew where they were at all times, do you mean the Dermond's, or the killer(s)? By blending in, do you think the killer(s) lived inside or outside of GW?

TIA!

 

[Litig8ter]

Interesting take on things! What do you think Mr. Dermond was involved in/knew something about that would be the catalyst for these murders? When you say someone knew where they were at all times, do you mean the Dermond's, or the killer(s)? By blending in, do you think the killer(s) lived inside or outside of GW?

TIA!

Perp was local and had ready access to lake and knew it. For him, taking her five miles downstream in the middle of the night and then being able to wash down a boat was much safer than using a vehicle to transport. Just underestimated the weight needing to keep a body submerged long enough.

The perp knew where he was at all times.

Pure speculation on involvement was an "off the books" loan being called due, a Ponzi scheme investment that could not be repaid by the perp, an angry husband, just to name a few.

 

[MotherOcean]

Just a thought. It just seems like to me that if Mrs. D's body wasn't meant to be found, it wouldn't have been. She could have been taken far, far away and then disposed (sorry for the wording) of in a way so she was never found.
Instead, she was 'placed' in the lake. IDK.
I tend to agree with Ocean: the perp(s) are from that community. MOO

It would make sense to take her far away but if the perp. is local, like very close, then perhaps he just could not be away from home or his family without raising their suspicions. I think he lives on the lake. I think he was working in the dark and had to be done with his deeds before morning.

 

[Solitaryone]

I wonder how long the Dermond's had been targeted, and if the murders happened on the Friday or Saturday or both? I don't think the decapitation was planned, though not sure about Mrs. Dermond being "placed" in the lake. Maybe the plan was to dispose both the Dermond's in the lake, but it was too much work. I hope Mrs. Dermond didn't see what was done to her husband. This case is very frustrating! I wonder if Sheriff Sills has any "private" suspicions about someone(s) he can't make public because he doesn't have anything to substantiate any suspicions he may have?

How long were these murders planned? How did the Dermond's become targets, and when did they become targets?

 

[Litig8ter]

I wonder if Sheriff Sills has any "private" suspicions about someone(s) he can't make public because he doesn't have anything to substantiate any suspicions he may have?

I am sure he does. He knows 20x or more than what he has released. They always do. Hard to sleuth well with that disadvantage.

 

[T-Rex]

Perp was local and had ready access to lake and knew it. For him, taking her five miles downstream in the middle of the night and then being able to wash down a boat was much safer than using a vehicle to transport. Just underestimated the weight needing to keep a body submerged long enough.

The perp knew where he was at all times.

Pure speculation on involvement was an "off the books" loan being called due, a Ponzi scheme investment that could not be repaid by the perp, an angry husband, just to name a few.

I usually paraphrase, instead of quoting wholesale, but I think you are exactly on.

 

[Cardinal47]

....and still you may not learn anymore than we already know. Here is a link to an interview with SS today on Macon's WMAZ.

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/06/24/no-new-leads-in-dermond-murders/11327969/

Well that certainly didn't sound hopeful of solving this case. Surely after 6 weeks SS has something.

Perhaps others were right and we need to leep over Sills head and bring in the big guns associated with the State.

Can a killer be this lucky, smart, cunning and so very evil? I just can't believe they have nothing. What about all the hair and fingerprints and clues SS talked about finding in the home?

Sigh...

Just sitting here and thinking I wonder if the Dermonds did keep a large amount of cash in their home? They go back to the depression and the worry of banks failing. Lots of seniors like to keep cash in their homes. It makes them feel secure.

If they did keep large sums of money in their home that could be something their families were not aware of. Older folks don't tell their kids everything. If there was a large amount of money and it's now missing who would know?

Sometimes contractors like to receive cash for work being done so they don't have to report it and pay taxes on it. Could the Dermonds have given away the fact that they had lots of cash in the house by paying for services in cash?

Something new to think of!

 

[bessie]

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[Backwoods]

It was good, at least, to hear something of the case back in the news again.

One thing I noted from the 13WMAZ coverage earlier in the day was that the person who said she saw -- "from a distance" -- "a man" walking in the Dermonds' yard that Saturday was described as "a caller" -- not necessarily a neighbor, as I think we had been thinking with an earlier, elusive (not ever posted on the news site that aired the report) version. To me, "a caller" means it COULD be a neighbor, but it could be someone else -- someone boating or fishing, maybe. (Frankly, I'd be a little nervous if it was me, and the word was out that it was a NEIGHBOR'S report...if the person sighted even had anything to do with the Dermonds' deaths.)

13WMAZ ran a report on the 11 p.m. news, too, and this time they aired a little different segment of the interview they did with Sills for today's coverage. I see only the earlier version (the one someone linked earlier) posted on the 13WMAZ site so far ... but one thing Sills said in the video at 11 was that, basically, there is no evidence that the murders occurred in the house -- then he paused just a beat and said "...unless it was in the garage", but he sure didn't seem convinced of that either.

ETA: Also wanted to point out, in case it hasn't been noted already, that 13WMAZ has a special section of the web site devoted to its earlier coverage of the Dermond case. Here's the link (and I also added it to the Media thread):

http://www.13wmaz.com/topic/586e6d09-f490-4867-8dfb-602d1d24e428/dermond-case/

 

[mck16]

It was good, at least, to hear something of the case back in the news again.

One thing I noted from the 13WMAZ coverage earlier in the day was that the person who said she saw -- "from a distance" -- "a man" walking in the Dermonds' yard that Saturday was described as "a caller" -- not necessarily a neighbor, as I think we had been thinking with an earlier, elusive (not ever posted on the news site that aired the report) version. To me, "a caller" means it COULD be a neighbor, but it could be someone else -- someone boating or fishing, maybe. (Frankly, I'd be a little nervous if it was me, and the word was out that it was a NEIGHBOR'S report...if the person sighted even had anything to do with the Dermonds' deaths.)

13WMAZ ran a report on the 11 p.m. news, too, and this time they aired a little different segment of the interview they did with Sills for today's coverage. I see only the earlier version (the one someone linked earlier) posted on the 13WMAZ site so far ... but one thing Sills said in the video at 11 was that, basically, there is no evidence that the murders occurred in the house -- then he paused just a beat and said "...unless it was in the garage", but he sure didn't seem convinced of that either.

ETA: Also wanted to point out, in case it hasn't been noted already, that 13WMAZ has a special section of the web site devoted to its earlier coverage of the Dermond case. Here's the link (and I also added it to the Media thread):

http://www.13wmaz.com/topic/586e6d09-f490-4867-8dfb-602d1d24e428/dermond-case/

Not much, but we should be happy that we got something. Tomorrow is another day. jmo

 

[Abelia]

Seems that if the neighbor could distinguish whether the person she witnessed was a man or a woman. There should be a description of his dress, race, height, weight, etc., to release to the public; a very valuable investigative resource..jmo

Also if she noticed there was a "man" in the yard, wouldn't she also have noticed if there was a boat at the dock or in the cove? So if that person was involved but there wasn't a boat, then did the killer(s) arrive by car, leave and return at night in their boat?

I just can't wrap my head around a burglary or robbery gone wrong. I believe that killing had to be the plan from the beginning. If someone has so little impulse control that in a fit of anger or fear of discovery they could kill two people, I can't imagine they would have the ability to totally calm down, think their situation through and obliterate nearly every bit of evidence that could be linked to them.

 

[Foxfire]

Also if she noticed there was a "man" in the yard, wouldn't she also have noticed if there was a boat at the dock or in the cove? So if that person was involved but there wasn't a boat, then did the killer(s) arrive by car, leave and return at night in their boat?

I just can't wrap my head around a burglary or robbery gone wrong. I believe that killing had to be the plan from the beginning. If someone has so little impulse control that in a fit of anger or fear of discovery they could kill two people, I can't imagine they would have the ability to totally calm down, think their situation through and obliterate nearly every bit of evidence that could be linked to them.

<BBM for Focus>

Reason # 26 that the GBI should be invited to assist the PCSO in the S&R Dermond murder investigation;

* 'Talented & Experienced Forensic Artists can work miracles sketching unknown suspects', imo.. At a CUE missing person conference a couple of years ago. I witnessed a very talented forensics sketch artist; Diane Trepkov, garner unknown/locked up info from a mother of an abducted infant; R.L. Green. The abduction had taken place over 3 decades prior; Diane Trepkov> Baby Raymond & unsub sketches>
http://www.forensicsbydiana.com/projects2.htm

<read more @>
GA - Raymond Lamar Green: Abducted, 6 days old, Atlanta, 6 Nov 1978 1970's Missing - Websleuths
GA GA - Raymond Lamar Green: Abducted, 6 days old, Atlanta, 6 Nov 1978 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Artist helps crack crime cases for APD - WALB.com, Albany ...
The GBI Forensics Artist position was created just for Marla Lawson.
http://www.walb.com/story/13975134/artist-helping-solve-cases-sine-1973


OnlineAthens.com | News | Police count on talented sketch artist 02/23/08
http://onlineathens.com/stories/022308/news_20080223045.shtml

'The apple doesn't fall far from the Tree'.. Kelly Lawson; Daughter of Marla Lawson; retired GBI Sketch Artist, takes over the Helm..
http://investigative.gbi.georgia.gov/forensic-art

 

[OTPTarheel]

Wish SS would narrow the timeline based on the electronic footprint.
Then I wish SS would gather all those GW/ RP folks AGAIN in a room and ask them to backtrack/ think where they were and what they were doing in that narrowed time frame. With phone and computer and shopping receipts, each person could reconstruct where he/she was and what they were doing. And if they remember anything out of the ordinary, or they forgot something .
Just my thoughts.

 

[atthelake]

<BBM for Focus>

Reason # 26 that the GBI should be invited to assist the PCSO in the S&R Dermond murder investigation;

* 'Talented & Experienced Forensic Artists can work miracles sketching unknown suspects', imo.. At a CUE missing person conference a couple of years ago. I witnessed a very talented forensics sketch artist; Diane Trepkov, garner unknown/locked up info from a mother of an abducted infant; R.L. Green. The abduction had taken place over 3 decades prior; Diane Trepkov> Baby Raymond & unsub sketches>
http://www.forensicsbydiana.com/projects2.htm

<read more @>
GA - Raymond Lamar Green: Abducted, 6 days old, Atlanta, 6 Nov 1978 1970's Missing - Websleuths
GA GA - Raymond Lamar Green: Abducted, 6 days old, Atlanta, 6 Nov 1978 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Artist helps crack crime cases for APD - WALB.com, Albany ...
The GBI Forensics Artist position was created just for Marla Lawson.
http://www.walb.com/story/13975134/artist-helping-solve-cases-sine-1973


OnlineAthens.com | News | Police count on talented sketch artist 02/23/08
http://onlineathens.com/stories/022308/news_20080223045.shtml

'The apple doesn't fall far from the Tree'.. Kelly Lawson; Daughter of Marla Lawson; retired GBI Sketch Artist, takes over the Helm..
http://investigative.gbi.georgia.gov/forensic-art

And who could not forget the renderings that she did of Eric Rudolph (Olympic Park Bomber) and Hemy Neuman (Dunwoody Daycare Murder). They were RIGHT ON !http://www.11alive.com/story/news/crime/2014/03/05/1938290/ as shown in the video and story here

 

[atthelake]

O/T Watching the end of the Gary Hilton case (Merediths killer at Blood Mtn) on ID Channel. will be headed to Blood Mountain (near Vogel State Park) in a few weeks for an outta town family. don't think I'll share this case with them.

That was a sad one, that I think Fox has strong emotions about.

 

[Cardinal47]

Also if she noticed there was a "man" in the yard, wouldn't she also have noticed if there was a boat at the dock or in the cove? So if that person was involved but there wasn't a boat, then did the killer(s) arrive by car, leave and return at night in their boat?

I just can't wrap my head around a burglary or robbery gone wrong. I believe that killing had to be the plan from the beginning. If someone has so little impulse control that in a fit of anger or fear of discovery they could kill two people, I can't imagine they would have the ability to totally calm down, think their situation through and obliterate nearly every bit of evidence that could be linked to them.

Hello Abelia and welcome...I see you are new.

I have to agree with you and have posted on this many times.

I don't believe this was somebody that acted impulsively. This was a well planned out murder and I have never thought the Dermonds were mistaken for anybody else as others have mentioned.

Reading the sheriffs statement from yesterday where he seems to waffle on where Mr. Dermond was killed.

We really don't know where Mrs. Dermond was killed either!

So now I am off and running with a new thought that maybe the Dermonds were in town and were blindsided in their own car that somebody chose to hide in. Taken someplace and killed and then returned in their own car with the sticker passing the gatehouse with no problems and returned to the garage and the lake.

Crazy thoughts with no new information to slueth!

 

[tlcya]

if the persons responsible for the Dermonds murders was there for some nefarious reason such as illegal transactions or storage of items and they confronted by and felt "forced" to murder the Dermonds. I would think once the killings were accomplished they would still need to do whatever they were in the area to do before that confrontation.

So did the murders take place on saturday and this unknown person was still on the property or had not yet been confronted by the Dermonds? Or did he return to finish whatever task was meant to be accomplished on saturday when the murders were on friday

 

[Solitaryone]

if the persons responsible for the Dermonds murders was there for some nefarious reason such as illegal transactions or storage of items and they confronted by and felt "forced" to murder the Dermonds. I would think once the killings were accomplished they would still need to do whatever they were in the area to do before that confrontation.

So did the murders take place on saturday and this unknown person was still on the property or had not yet been confronted by the Dermonds? Or did he return to finish whatever task was meant to be accomplished on saturday when the murders were on friday

Good questions, Tlcya. I wonder if the killer(s) spent Friday night in the Dermond home. I think the Dermond's were killed inside the garage. Maybe Mr. Dermond was killed right outside the garage, and then the killer(s) murdered Mrs. Dermond inside the garage. I don't think Mrs. Dermond was alive when put in the boat. I think she was killed right after Mr. Dermond was killed.

I hope that something breaks soon with this case. I hate to think that there may not be justice for the Dermond's! :banghead: I still think Sheriff Sills will solve this case,but we're in for a long wait, I'm afraid.