GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 8

[Starry Night]

Rather disconcerting that a decapitation murder is taking so long to solve. What does that tell you?

 

[Solitaryone]

Rather disconcerting that a decapitation murder is taking so long to solve. What does that tell you?

It really bothers me. I think about the Dermond's every day, and every day I hope there's a break in the case. I hope this case isn't going to wind up a cold case! Who knows, maybe Sheriff Sills is close to making an arrest, and we'll be as taken by surprise as the killer(s)! One can hope, right? :banghead:

 

[Starry Night]

One can hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[wildebeest]

Rather disconcerting that a decapitation murder is taking so long to solve. What does that tell you?

Yes, I agree. It seems that interest is waning in this case. Where is everyone? I hope there will soon be news. :twocents:

IMHO

 

[Starry Night]

Well the main thing is how to find/identify the killer.

There must be little forensic evidence-or the type which takes months of testing and lot's of surveillance. A case which has to be built.

So, what does that tell you?

 

[Carolinapeach]

Rewards top $55K; but still no leads

http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_18a6d130-fc94-11e3-a76a-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Starry Night]

As I read these boards I wonder how much I would compromise not to be killed.......or scared by what I hear out of place and time.

 

[Canaille]

Has anything come from the Huddle House incident? Has anyone been able to confirm that someone did in fact go in and ask for surveillance tapes? Was it LE? Or was this just rumor?

 

[Bootsctr]

Just a thought. It just seems like to me that if Mrs. D's body wasn't meant to be found, it wouldn't have been. She could have been taken far, far away and then disposed (sorry for the wording) of in a way so she was never found.
Instead, she was 'placed' in the lake. IDK.
I tend to agree with Ocean: the perp(s) are from that community. MOO

I too agree with Ocean ~ The perp never thought Mrs. D would be found. In fact, I believe Ocean said she had never heard of a case of a person who dumped a body in the water ever believing the body would be found. The best I can hope for in Mrs. D's situation was that she went quickly and she was already dead by the time she was placed where she was found and she did not drown. Little solace in the fact she was not thrown into the lake alive and have to drown. I'm not sure if that is a clue about the killer and not wanting her to drown which is a horrible death.

Of note, hopefully not too off topic: I was shocked when Laci Peterson and her unborn son surfaced separately. Can't remember how long it did take them to surface Lots of difference between fresh water and salt water and the effects on bodies and the critters in salt water versus fresh water.

Laci Peterson's head and parts of her limbs were missing and plastic tape was wrapped around the neck of her child, according to the full autopsy and coroner's photographs exclusively seen by ABCNEWS.

According to the autopsy, the skin of the child was not decomposed at all, though the right side of his body was mutilated, and the placenta and umbilical cord were not found with the body.

The autopsy said that the cause of Laci Peterson's death was undetermined, and there was no evidence of man-made wounds, despite the fact that her head and all or part of her limbs were missing.

Peterson's body was so badly decomposed it barely looked like a body after it was found in San Francisco Bay last month. However, the autopsy report showed her cervix was intact.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90600

 

[Bootsctr]

I've often wondered if this was a home invasion that went wrong from the beginning. Wrong address, perhaps, to start. Regardless, let's say that the home invaders thought that there was a safe or a cache, and were trying to get the D's to give up a combination or location. Let's say, perhaps, that they figured that Mr. D wasn't going to say anything, so the plan was to hold a gun to his head and have Mrs. D give the combo/location. Perhaps the gun went off in a struggle or by accident, and Mr. D was shot in the head. Perp 2 might have said to Perp 1 -- 'oops -- hey bro, that gun is traceable/isn't clean', and so they decided to decapitate Mr. D (perhaps later) to remove the bullet that could be traced to, say, some other crime through ballistics. Then they thought something like 'well, Mrs. D will be a witness, so let's kill her now and put her body in the lake to remove as much evidence as we can'.

Just a theory, but I think that the 'home invasion gone wrong' theory is possible. It has certainly happened many, many times before.

I have thought home invasion at times too. But, if you are going to take the time to remove a man's head, why not take the time to finish taking the stuff you were going to rob them of in the beginning? If thieves were petty criminals and looking for small stuff such as weedeaters, chainsaws, gas cans, they certainly had time to take that stuff too - especially if there were 2 perps. And to risk actually being seen by someone on the Dermonds' property was a dumb move on the perp's part. Usually break-ins and thefts don't occur at times when people are expected to be at home, thieves break in homes when it is most likely no one will be home.

Taking the time to remove Mr. Dermond's head was a chance for the perp/perps to leave even more DNA evidence at the crime scene. I'm back to believing Mr. Dermond's head was taken for more than self-preservation. It was a message - diabolical and taunting message.

He says the only possible witness they have was a caller who says, from a distance, she saw a man on the Dermonds' property that Saturday afternoon. "And that's the closest thing we have, we don't have a car description, we don't have a person description," Sills says.

Sills says his department has done a thorough investigation into the Dermonds' background. He doesn't believe any of their immediate family committed the crime, but does think it would have to be someone they knew. Sills says the case is unlike other murders because of the unique circumstances.

"Most of the time, the victim, or at least somebody associated with the victim has some ties to some criminal activity. That, at this point in time in our investigation we have not found that," he says.

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/06/24/no-new-leads-in-dermond-murders/11327969/

Time for Sheriff Sills to bring in the GBI, IMO. LakeOconee quoted a figure of around 10,000 potential GW/RP plantation stickers that gave access to the area. Hard to believe they have cleared those 10,000 potential suspects already. :moo:

 

[Bootsctr]

Or, it was carefully planned out and the killer thought he would create an even greater diversion from solving the crime by having Mrs. D's body never found by placing it where he did and having SS and posse searching for her and a head for years. Only he didn't expect her to surface.

IMO, this was well thought out. It would be easier to solve if it was not. And I completely discount what we can not talk about (UNFAM, not UNGAT) being a factor, so who benefits financially from her not being found is not an issue as I see it. But I do not discount someone benefitting financially from RD not being around. But it would not be an heir that just wanted to accelerate what otherwise would come naturally in time.

:goodpost: I too think by hiding Mrs. D's body was akin to throwing a big ole monkey wrench into the investigation. Yes and even planned to take place on one a very dark night with only a teeny, tiny sliver of the moon.

I don't think Mr. D's head was disposed of in the lake. I think the head was taken as proof to someone who ordered this hit "to bring me the head" as proof the deed was done.

 

[Bootsctr]

I wonder how long the Dermond's had been targeted, and if the murders happened on the Friday or Saturday or both? I don't think the decapitation was planned, though not sure about Mrs. Dermond being "placed" in the lake. Maybe the plan was to dispose both the Dermond's in the lake, but it was too much work. I hope Mrs. Dermond didn't see what was done to her husband. This case is very frustrating! I wonder if Sheriff Sills has any "private" suspicions about someone(s) he can't make public because he doesn't have anything to substantiate any suspicions he may have?

How long were these murders planned? How did the Dermond's become targets, and when did they become targets?

Oh, I definitely think Sheriff Sills has some "private" suspicions that he has not released to the public. I do think he shared some of these "private" suspicions with the family. I hope there is an arrest, but SS needs to bring in the GBI for help.

Sheriff Sills is holding his cards very, very close to his chest.

Here's to Sheriff Sills: http://youtu.be/Jj4nJ1YEAp4

He said, "Son, I've made a life, out of readin' people's faces
And knowin' what their cards were by the way they held their eyes
So if you don't mind my sayin', I can see you're out of aces
For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice"

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealing's done

http://rock.rapgenius.com/Kenny-rogers-the-gambler-lyrics

 

[Bootsctr]

<BBM for Focus>

Reason # 26 that the GBI should be invited to assist the PCSO in the S&R Dermond murder investigation;

* 'Talented & Experienced Forensic Artists can work miracles sketching unknown suspects', imo.. At a CUE missing person conference a couple of years ago. I witnessed a very talented forensics sketch artist; Diane Trepkov, garner unknown/locked up info from a mother of an abducted infant; R.L. Green. The abduction had taken place over 3 decades prior; Diane Trepkov> Baby Raymond & unsub sketches>
http://www.forensicsbydiana.com/projects2.htm

<read more @>
GA - Raymond Lamar Green: Abducted, 6 days old, Atlanta, 6 Nov 1978 1970's Missing - Websleuths
GA GA - Raymond Lamar Green: Abducted, 6 days old, Atlanta, 6 Nov 1978 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Artist helps crack crime cases for APD - WALB.com, Albany ...
The GBI Forensics Artist position was created just for Marla Lawson.
http://www.walb.com/story/13975134/artist-helping-solve-cases-sine-1973


OnlineAthens.com | News | Police count on talented sketch artist 02/23/08
http://onlineathens.com/stories/022308/news_20080223045.shtml

'The apple doesn't fall far from the Tree'.. Kelly Lawson; Daughter of Marla Lawson; retired GBI Sketch Artist, takes over the Helm..
http://investigative.gbi.georgia.gov/forensic-art

As always Foxfire :goodpost: :yourock:

 

[Bootsctr]

I wonder how long the Dermond's had been targeted, and if the murders happened on the Friday or Saturday or both? I don't think the decapitation was planned, though not sure about Mrs. Dermond being "placed" in the lake. Maybe the plan was to dispose both the Dermond's in the lake, but it was too much work. I hope Mrs. Dermond didn't see what was done to her husband. This case is very frustrating! I wonder if Sheriff Sills has any "private" suspicions about someone(s) he can't make public because he doesn't have anything to substantiate any suspicions he may have?

How long were these murders planned? How did the Dermond's become targets, and when did they become targets?

Just my opinion, but the planning could have begun as soon as the Kentucky Party invitations were sent out. Two weeks, three weeks ????

 

[Bootsctr]

Hello Abelia and welcome...I see you are new.

I have to agree with you and have posted on this many times.

I don't believe this was somebody that acted impulsively. This was a well planned out murder and I have never thought the Dermonds were mistaken for anybody else as others have mentioned.

Reading the sheriffs statement from yesterday where he seems to waffle on where Mr. Dermond was killed.

We really don't know where Mrs. Dermond was killed either!

So now I am off and running with a new thought that maybe the Dermonds were in town and were blindsided in their own car that somebody chose to hide in. Taken someplace and killed and then returned in their own car with the sticker passing the gatehouse with no problems and returned to the garage and the lake.

Crazy thoughts with no new information to slueth!

I don't think it is a crazy thought. I too have thought the perps could have been hiding in the car. In fact, the inside of one of the vehicles could have been one of the crime scenes at the very least. :seeya:

 

[Foxfire]

Rewards top $55K; but still no leads

http://www.msgr.com/news/crime/article_18a6d130-fc94-11e3-a76a-0019bb2963f4.html

"I wouldn't sell my soul to the Devil, but I would lease it out to solve this case"..
Quote Sheriff Howard Sills...

Nothing Like TV...
________________________

Actually, one of the writers for the TV show Criminal Minds is a retired FBI BAU behavioral profiler and supervisor of special agents; James T. Clemente.
Many of the episodes are based on actual cases..
http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/James_T._Clemente

________________________
Imo, all indicators point to the Dermond abduction/decapitation/murders being ritual in nature...This is the most plausible explanation for the lack of blood and the decapitation of RD, imo..

"Good triumphs over Evil"
'There must be darkness present for the Light to shine through'...

 

[atthelake]

:welcomeback:

:grouphug:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

I get that and can see that as a strong possibility.

But why, as it appears to me, did they beat her in the head (for a lack of better words)? Why not just shoot her and/or leave her with Mr. D? Do you think it was an attempt to make it look like something else? Or maybe the perp didn't intend to kill her and was caught off guard by her and became angry?

I don't think Russ' murder was planned. I think it is like other cases where a robber is caught by homeowners and the homeowners are murdered to silence any witnesses that can send the armed robbers away to prison for a long time even life.

The only difference in this case IMO is this armed robber knew the Dermonds casually in someway and knew they were elderly people who lived alone leading them to believe their home was an easy target.

I have even thought if they were murdered late in the afternoon of the Derby party the robber may have picked this time thinking they had ridden with their friends to the party and wouldn't be home. But he guessed wrong and they were home and they did catch him inside of their garage. Imo He may have originally gone there thinking they kept lots of cash on hand or even had a safe.

I think he killed Russ in a panic by shooting him at point blank range in the head and then he told Shirley if she didn't comply to his demands he would kill her too. I think he bound and gagged her in the garage where she couldn't escape nor scream out.

Then he started thinking how he could stage the murder of Russ to make it appear like something it really wasn't. And Shirley's supposed 'disappearance' was staged also. He thought if he staged it to look like a hit by a hit man who had abducted Shirley and taken her with him..it would throw LE off so they wouldn't suspect this was really a robbery gone bad by someone they knew instead.

I think once they found him in their garage Russ and Shirley told him they were going to call the cops and one of them may have even tried to turnaround to go retrieve their phone and he was not going to let that happen and that is when he shot Russ.

Neither one of the victims had any other trauma to the rest of their body other than the head trauma that caused their deaths. So this makes me think this all came about without any warning which wouldn't have given either of them a chance to defend themselves.

He couldn't rob them of anything nor would he. He was going to great effort of staging the murders to look like a hit man did all of this and not done by a home invasion robber who knew the Ds.

IMO

 

[southernmimi]

I agree with you .decapitation makes people immediately think "hit man" so the killer is pretty clever...and probably still in Putnam County.

 

[T-Rex]

Just reread an article where a neighbor said Russ walked "all the time." Maybe he surprised an intruder when he came home. Or maybe it was some kind of negligent homicide that happened while Russ was out (like a drunk driver, or someone recklessly firing a gun), and the killer brought his body home to distance it. Then killed Shirley when she came outside to see what was going on.