GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[MyBelle]

Has there been any explanation for why the father forgot not only to drop off his son at daycare, but why he also forgot to pick him up from daycare? Did he forget that he had a son, or did he believe that his wife was picking him up? How did he forget completely about picking him up as well?

The daycare routine is the piece I'm waiting on. The father was meeting friends for drinks, iirc.

 

[Davia18]

My kids talk lots, I have 3 and the youngest being 26 months never stops. If he see's a truck he says mom truck mom truck he says everything at least 3 times. If he see's a bird it's bird bird bird, if he see's a dog he barks over and over. Not one of my kids were quite still are not. Even my 10 year old always has something to talk about.

 

[Spice]

Yes it does! A rumbling burp could certainly be described as "choking" especially if the baby aspirated vomit prior to death. It would sound exactly like choking.

So he noticed a postmortem burp but not the post mortem smell and rigor when he got into his car on his way to happy hour?

 

[Chewy]

RSBM

I don't know if people "hold parents responsible" in their own heads when these cases happen, but in the situations you listed parents are almost never charged with neglect. Unless of course, this situation happened in a case where the parent would have been charged with neglect even if NOTHING happened to the child (being left alone in a house, mother chronically sleeping while children are awake, etc.)

In the cases you listed, if the supervision is generally adequate and an awake and alert parent was in the home there is almost never a finding of criminal responsibility.

I think the reason I can't understand your statements of empathy for the parent is because it's based on the "horror of it happening to a parent."

I can't wrap my mind around how anyone would be focused on the "horror of it happening to a parent" instead of the "horror of it happening to a child."

Especially in this case that the parents stated that they had premonitions of it happening to them. No not them. Not them. Their child. It didn't happen to them. They did it to their child. He did it to his child.

Nothing happened to HIM. It happened to the child. As a victims advocate my sympathy lies completely with the victim. I am horrified beyond belief at the idea of what this child must have gone through. The fact that people are crying at the idea of what the father is going through is bizarre to me.

The child. I'm focused on the child. Cooper is the victim here. Not his father.

If the idea of this happening to your child horrifies you, then you make sure it doesn't happen. This is an EASILY preventable death. Remember your child.

 

[newone]

I raised three boys. I'd say there is EVERY chance the child sat back there quietly for the ride to daycare. After he buckled him in, it's quite believable he never saw him, either.

I wonder if people who think kids babble all the time had been parents of little girls? They do seem more verbal - although this sweetie could speak clearly it's not clear he talked non-stop.

I was blessed with both .... car rides were an opportunity ((especially en route to work via daycare)) to have that last minute connect heart to heart with them. Son would talk or laugh or just play with something I could hear him at all times - I was ''aware'' he was there, happy or not so much. I knew he was there -- and I had very short commutes too. Absence of sounds meant sleeping.

Girls same way in our family.

 

[Melanie]

That really is bizarre. Statements made at the funeral referenced Ross being an amazing father to any future children. Those future child would face the same torments experienced during middle/high school.

That bothered me as well. My son is entering his senior year, and there is no torment? What is she on about? Is she referring to puberty, or the heartache of a first girlfriend. Trust me, there are more joys in these years, than torment (for most children). But Cooper was only 22 months old. She couldn't predict what would happen in his teen years anymore than I could.

JMHO.

Mel

 

[otto]

It's been stated that the mom usually picks the kiddo up from daycare. (ETA: I say "it's been stated" because I've seen others say it, not in a snarky way! I read it again and was like "that sounds snarky")

I joined the discussion late. Has the mother said at what time she normally picked up the child? Was it normally after 5:15, when this was first reported?

 

[Tawny]

I joined the discussion late. Has the mother said at what time she normally picked up the child? Was it normally after 5:15, when this was first reported?

I'm unsure, I haven't seen it referenced anywhere. Anybody else know the answer to that?

 

[nursebeeme]

I joined the discussion late. Has the mother said at what time she normally picked up the child? Was it normally after 5:15, when this was first reported?

hi otto, we don't know much. The mother has not spoken to the media and her timeline has not been released. There is a bit in the media thread (go to the main page and click on the timeline area.. the link is also in the opening post where Salem has previous threads linked)

 

[MyBelle]

I raised three boys. I'd say there is EVERY chance the child sat back there quietly for the ride to daycare. After he buckled him in, it's quite believable he never saw him, either.

I wonder if people who think kids babble all the time had been parents of little girls? They do seem more verbal - although this sweetie could speak clearly it's not clear he talked non-stop.

Here's the deal. When i look at a case where someone is claiming innocence, and think, "is that possible, what he is saying?"

In this case, yes to everything.

"Is it possible the child, after being strapped in to the carseat sat quietly for the few minutes it took to get to work"? yes
"Is it possible the dad didn't have a clear visual on the child both getting out of his car, putting something in the seat at noon, and then getting into the car at 4?" yes
"Is it possible that both parents had discussed their fear of hot cars and each had googled for more information, sensing they were at risk?" yes
"Is it possible daycare never reached him that day?" yes (this will turn out to be a verified fact, either daycare reached him or didn't
"Is it possible that he forgot the baby was in the car after strapping him in?" yes. Otherwise, it wouldn't be common. What is uncommon is for the forgetting to last so long the child passes away

In other cases, I start the same way. Is what the accused is saying possible in each case? In the case of Danielle Van Dam, I hit the wall with "is it possible the accused coincidentally drove all the way out to that remote spot exactly where her remains were found out in a jungly mess, states away from where she went missing, where he got stuck and had to have his car pulled out by a wrecker". No. No that's not possible it's a coincidence.

That's what I want to see in this case. Something that's not possible.

Sorry but it isn't believable that the father "forgot" the child within one-half mile.

I just spent a week with my grandson. I'm positive he's a boy and he's never silent after eating breakfast. He's full of energy and sound and there is no way to miss seeing his body in his car seat. If he's been sick and up the night before, he's full of more sound.

The actual witnesses did not believe the father and neither did the cops. Neither do I.

JMO

 

[ReginaPhalange]

<modsnip> Whether or not people believe RH intended to leave Cooper in the vehicle, he did just that and Cooper is dead. There is really very little accountability anymore IMO.

 

[believe09]

**Warning-death change discussion below**

If little man were in full rigor, his jaws, his tongue...all would have been fixed and rigid. Once the fixed rigor has passed, muscles soften but it takes a while. Given the heat of the car, rigor would have happened pretty quickly I think, so I guess it is possible that dad's choking story rose out of his noon visit to the car. Especially if Cooper's breakfast expelled which is very possible as he was dying.

Maybe the stomach contents expelling is what JeannaT was talking about?

I feel kind of certain that if Cooper was in full rigor, his stomach contents and the voiding happened long before. JMO.

 

[LisaB]

I think they definitely have video, if it was just a witness statement then LE wouldn't likely be stating it as "absolute fact", they seem extremely specific about what went on but they don't know what the object was, which implies they couldn't tell from the video footage.

It isn't like there would be half a dozen witnesses that remember him going out to his car and putting something in the drivers side door.

Something eliminated the possibility (in LE's mind) that someone had the day wrong. It would be risky to state that he went to the car and put something in, based only on the testimony of an eyewitness, without another witness or a camera to back it up. A camera alone would be sufficient, even without an actual witness.

If it was a premeditated act, and there WERE people in the parking lot, I think he would have skipped the trip to the car, pretended to have gone outside to place a call privately and AVOIDING his car, then gone back inside.

If he went to the car, he was either SURE nobody was around to see him, or he REALLY had no idea his son was inside. As IT, he would probably know there were cameras capturing his visit to the car too, so (if this was all intentional) he'd probably have made it a point to AVOID looking into the car.

By pretending to be distracted by something on the far side of the car, or across the street, he could open the car without looking down, toss in the "item", and then slam the door and walk away.

 

[otto]

I'm unsure, I haven't seen it referenced anywhere. Anybody else know the answer to that?

I think this comes down to routines, and what sort of explanation there is for the father being so befuddled that he forgot about his child in the span of a few minutes drive from breakfast to work. The mother's pick-up routine at the end of the day is also important. I'm curious about communication between the parents during the day, especially after the father retrieved something from his car while his son was either deceased, or dying.

 

[popsicle]

I am genuinely curious about the type of person who wouldn't feel guilty and beat themselves up about this, even if it WERE an unintentional accident. Clearly JRH does not feel any guilt and his supporters don't think that he should, as evidenced by the the applause (and JRH's verbal acceptance of it) at the funeral service.

10 years ago my husband earned a vacation for two to the Keys for meeting a sales quota at work. I didn't want to leave my 10 and 4-year-old sons in the care of my perfectly competent and loving MIL for 4 days, but hubby guilted me into it. After the reservations were made, I found out my youngest son's preschool was having an "invite your mom to lunch day" during our absence. I tried again to back out of the trip but at that point we would not have been able to get a refund and it was clear it would put a major strain on my marriage if I didn't buck up and go, so I asked my mother-in-law to attend the luncheon in my place and tearfully went of the trip.

Well, guess what? MIL forgot to show up. She didn't forget to take him to preschool and pick him up, she just forgot to show up for the luncheon. I am teary-eyed with guilt ten years later as I type this. Frankly, I am burning with shame just telling the story on an anonymous Internet forum. Every time I have thought about the incident for the past ten years, I have cried, even thought it wasn't much more than a minor annoyance for my son. My sons and husband initially teased me about it but they know better now due to the waterworks that would inevitably ensue. Sort of off-topic but I just don't understand people who don't feel accountability, guilt and regret. Is there something wrong with me?

One evening while I was cleaning out the blow up pool, my 3 girls decided they wanted to get in the hot tub. (2- 1/2, 6, 9) I was standing maybe 20ft away and the 2 oldest put their foot in and decided they better go potty first. As they climbed down the baby came out on the patio behind them and was standing there. I looked down, flipped the pool over and laid it on the ground. When I looked up all 3 of them were gone. The thought formed in my head... I wonder if she followed... and then, OMG and I ran as fast as I could and she was laying in the hot tub. I pulled her out, laid her on my lap and breathed into her once and she coughed and cried and was fine. When their Dad came home he just didn't get why I was so upset. Once the girls were in bed I went into a full panic attack, couldn't breath and he ended up calling 911 and my parents.

I don't even know what all I was saying... I know he explained what had happened to the police and everyone there. I do remember my Mom asking me... why didn't you just call me, I would have come over to be with you... my reply? And say what? That I almost killed your grand-daughter? Needless to say the paramedic asked if he could upstairs and check her out.

Even though I was paying attention and my reaction was the right one, because that thought was in my head about if she followed her sisters into the house was enough to guilt me horribly because what if I had assumed she followed them into the house?

Anyway, as I dealt with that experience in the following days, I knew that I would have never lived to bury her if the outcome had been tragic. It took 15 yrs to stop beating myself up. I took a chainsaw to the hot tub, cut it in half and called trash pick-up but the picture in my head of her in that tub is forever ingrained.

There is nothing wrong with you imo.
Sorry this is so long.

 

[LisaB]

What ever the object was I think it was an excuse to check on Cooper's status. jmo

Unless it was his phone, and he wanted it to appear he had been so forgetful as to leave SEVERAL important items in the car while simultaneously providing an explanation for not answering if the daycare called.

 

[MsMarple]

Georgia toddler's death -- first blamed on heat -- is ongoing probe, police say

More at http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/21/us/toddler-car-death-probe/?sr=google_news

rsbm

Surely this isn't the carseat that Cooper died in, right? Someone mentioned it was much bigger than this size, which prevented the dad from seeing him from the front seat.

 

[JeannaT]

BBM. It always depends on what the investigation turns up just as there has been an investigation in this case. In the situations described which result in harm to a child, there always is an investigation.

JMO

No there's not! Having taken kids to the ER before, and my friends have, I can tell you you can arrive with a injured child who needs stitches, their stomach pumped, broken bones set, burns treated, and there's no investigation unless something looks very, very "off".

If a child dies I'm sure there would be an investigation but if everything otherwise seems normal with the parents there is no investigation.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes it does! A rumbling burp could certainly be described as "choking" especially if the baby aspirated vomit prior to death. It would sound exactly like choking.

Sorry, I do not agree that a "rumbling burp" resembles the sound of a toddler choking. Plus, vomit smells, burping smells, decaying body smells. Yet Papa wanted people to believe he heard his child "choking?" Good luck getting a jury to believe it.

JMO

 

[Charterhouse]

Holy Cow! I can't keep up.
I think it is going to be one of those cases.