General theory thread and motives rehashed #2

[Buterflytat]

IDK why, but I've been thinking about the difference between Ron's upbringing & Tommy's. Where as Ron grew up in the area, & was at home, Tommy was a late transplant, & an outsider. When Ron was young, he had a grandfather who probably took him fishing, boating, hunting, to ballgames...Tommy had a father who shot up in the bathroom. Ron had a grandmother who no doubt spoiled him, cooked him good meals, made sure he had nice clothes for school...Tommy was probably left alone to fend for himself, there was little food in the house, & if he was anything like his sister, he barely went to school. But somehow, their paths crossed, & for a few short months, they were even related. Annette Sykes claims that Ron changed after spending his teen years, with his mother. Hank claims that Tommy went from being the little boy who tossed their drugs away, to a junkie himself. & now they're both locked up for trafficking drugs, & Tommy is a suspect in Ron's daughter's murder. unbelievable, if you think about it. Ron's chance meeting with a young, pretty Misty, led to an infatuation, which led to this. heartbreaking.

Good insight Dodie. I agree with much of your post; but Ron was already getting trouble with drugs and the law before meeting Misty. I do not have sympathy for Ron; he was older even if not more mature than most of the Croslins. Ron seems to have had a better upringing that is true; but somewhere along the way he made some bad choices that precluded to the situation that took place. There are so many senarios that could have taken place and I believe there is some truth in the lies.
I believe that all the Cummings and all the Croslins know much more than they are telling. I also believe that the Cummings have used the fact that the Croslins are more drug addled and not as smart as the Cummings. This is one of the craziest cases I have ever followed.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Profiler PatB New blog post on Ronald Cummings' Enemies at Women in Crime Ink http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/...s-enemies.html
As statement analyst Peter Hyatt will tell you (check out our discussion on my blogtalkradio show, Profile This!), there is a lot of truth in "them that lies." Pay attention to the words -- "blanket," "water," "brick," "gun" -- and pay attention to the order in which statements are delivered, starting with the 911 call. You'll find the players are actually telling you what happened. Of course, to make any arrests, proof of exactly what happened must include strong physical and behavioral evidence that can be used in a court of law. That is why, at this moment, no one is standing trial for the murder of Haleigh Cummings.

One thing is for sure, though, at least from the information we have to date: Ronald Cummings is in bed with his "enemies," and, I would think most detectives and profilers would agree, there is something seriously wrong with this picture.

Another well written analysis from PB that makes sense to me. More than what we hear from the media and the players in this twisted case. I thought that the Anthony case was a circus, but good golly miss molly this case is so twisted I don't see how LE will unravel the truth about what really happen to Haleigh. :banghead:

IMO, for LE to state that they feel Haleigh is dead they must have some type of proof, decomp something I would think. :banghead: It is just so frustrating that no arrest/charges have been made yet...I pray that who ever killed Haleigh does not end up getting away with her murder. :furious:

 

[Concerned Papa]

Kant, I can't speak for anyone else but here are my thoughts concerning the who when and where...

LE did state at one point they found no evidence of a crime being committed at 202 Green Lane.. They also stated they didn't know where the crime was comitted or what time it happened IF there was a crime committed..

When Sheriff declared this case a homicide, he was asked IF he thought the crime was committed in the Shell Harbor area.. He stated that was a good possibility..

The Croslins lived in a trailer on Magnolia.. Just a hop, skip and a jump from Shell Harbor...On February 9th Hank Sr and Lisa were in Gainesville because Hank Sr. had been in an automobile accident..

Nay Nay claims when she brought Misty back she took her to one of her brother's houses because Misty had to babysit ( which brother, we don't know).. However it was either Chelsey or Lindsey who revealed to AH Misty was staying at her parent's residence while her parents were in Gainesville at the hospital..

Witnesses have come forward and stated they saw Haleigh get in the van with Misty at the bus stop.. Some have speculated it wasn't Misty but Chelsey, Timmy's wife... Whoever it was... they drove off in the opposite direction of the MH located at 202 Green Lane...

Someone also revelaed Ron C showed up at the bus stop that afternoon and when he found out Haleigh got in the van, he went looking for Misty and the van...

I'm thinking when he caught up with Misty all hell broke loose..And the incident occurred at Hank Sr. and Lisa residence on Magnolia or in the immediate vicinity.. To my knowledge Hank Sr. and Lisa's residence on Magnolia was never searched or investigated as being a crime scene...JMHO..

I maintain my stance.. Haleigh was shot and Ronald Cummings did it.....JMO

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5194006&postcount=887

Em, you have steadfastly maintained this opinion for a long time, haven’t you? Do you think it would make your theory more binding if you heard from TWO different sources that Ronald Cummings was at the Magnolia residence with a gun in his hand? Not only was he there, but he immediately and thoroughly cleaned the weapon afterwards!

Hank Croslin, Sr. told me. “I had to keep them apart,” he said. He said Overstreet vowed to get even, and that Cummings sloughed it off after he found the gun where he claims Overstreet hid it, in a drainage pipe that runs under the Croslin’s former driveway.

http://www.artharris.com/2010/08/20/exclusive-misty-croslin-i-would-have-shot-joe/#more-4625

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Xvy_Yyp5c

This information doesn’t say when, but we can reasonably ascertain that it was within a time frame between February 1, 2009 and LE’s arrival at Green Drive after the 911 call.

Ronald Cummings himself told us in the Cobra tapes that JO “stole” his pistol on the third day of his visit:

ron: the first time i met him he stole my piece. (gun)

cobra: the first day?

ron: the first day i met him… the third time… the third DAY that he was here…

cobra: yeah, the first time you MET him.

ron: first time i met him he stole my piece.

We also know that Ronald told the first Officer to the scene on February 10th the gun was in his house.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/02/13/putnam.pdf

We don't know when Ronald Cummings was at 130 Magnolia with this gun. Frankly, I don’t believe anything about this convoluted story of Joe Overstreet “stealing” Ronald’s gun. I certainly don’t believe that he “found” this gun through some type of telepathic thought process.

What I do believe however, is something I read recently here at WS in another member’s comment. “There is some truth in every lie”. Although we don’t know when, Ronald Cummings himself has apparently said he was there with the gun.

It is at least possible that the “when” is the afternoon of February 9, 2009 and with this new information, your theory of the horrible consequences becomes more credible.

 

[Whisperer]

1. Who just told us that all guns were removed from the house?
2. Didn't Hardy tell us that JO visited that MH? IIRC, though, he cleverly avoided getting nailed down on a time but alluded to Feb. 9.

 

[Justin Tyme]

you gave this post a lot of thought & time. Thanks. & a few things that you mentioned, have me thinking. Tommy not doing any hard drugs, before Haleigh came up missing, is a self serving testament on his part, I do believe. He has recently admitted that he was so high on xanax, that night, that he passed in & out of consciousness. Also, Misty did call him a crackhead...for what that's worth, but I believe her...especially after his parent's recent arrest. Crack is a main staple, in that family, IMO. & also, I remember in a jail tape, Tommy telling Lindsey that he didn't go to work that day, (Haleigh's death day?), because he needed pills to get him going. & about Lindsey...I don't feel so magnanimous towards her. I remember after Tommy was busted at the bus stop, Lindsey was interviewed at the jail, before or after a visit...& she was GIGGLING. WTH??? & I can't forget how mean she was to their dog, & how hateful she was towards their son...her voice, when she called him a toothless Croslin hillbilly, was full of venom & spite. He had just lost a baby tooth & was proud, I'm sure. I don't know what her deal is, but I think she's mean, & more than a little off, & I hope LE hasn't written her off. I'm not trying to pick your post apart, lol, but those 2 bug the crud out of me. I really like your babysitting argument theory, & it makes perfect sense. I've been racking my brain, trying to piece that together. Now, that we have not only GMaw Flo, but also Art Harris, saying that Misty offered TN money to sit, (not the other way around), the pieces are starting to fit. But about that...would Misty have had the extra money & was TN in need of a few extra dollars? still not sure I'm buying that. Like I said, I really appreciate your post & plan to reread it & comment again later. Thanks.

I'm wondering if RC gave MC money or perhaps she was already dealing drugs and had a little pocket money. On TN, she was out of work and had been for awhile. Being that she was evicted from her home shortly after Haleigh came up missing, I would think that she could have used some money no matter how little it was.

 

[Emeralgem]

Em, you have steadfastly maintained this opinion for a long time, haven’t you? Do you think it would make your theory more binding if you heard from TWO different sources that Ronald Cummings was at the Magnolia residence with a gun in his hand? Not only was he there, but he immediately and thoroughly cleaned the weapon afterwards!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Xvy_Yyp5c

This information doesn’t say when, but we can reasonably ascertain that it was within a time frame between February 1, 2009 and LE’s arrival at Green Drive after the 911 call.

Ronald Cummings himself told us in the Cobra tapes that JO “stole” his pistol on the third day of his visit:



We also know that Ronald told the first Officer to the scene on February 10th the gun was in his house.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/02/13/putnam.pdf

We don't know when Ronald Cummings was at 130 Magnolia with this gun. Frankly, I don’t believe anything about this convoluted story of Joe Overstreet “stealing” Ronald’s gun. I certainly don’t believe that he “found” this gun through some type of telepathic thought process.

What I do believe however, is something I read recently here at WS in another member’s comment. “There is some truth in every lie”. Although we don’t know when, Ronald Cummings himself has apparently said he was there with the gun.

It is at least possible that the “when” is the afternoon of February 9, 2009 and with this new information, your theory of the horrible consequences becomes more credible.

CP, Thank you for posting this information...When was the exact location about the gun in the culvert story revealed? I know we all attempted to figure that one out for months on end...IIRC..We all thought it was the culvert at Tommy's house on Tyler Street.. Again, thanks.. The puzzle seems to be coming together....JMHO

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Em, you have steadfastly maintained this opinion for a long time, haven’t you? Do you think it would make your theory more binding if you heard from TWO different sources that Ronald Cummings was at the Magnolia residence with a gun in his hand? Not only was he there, but he immediately and thoroughly cleaned the weapon afterwards!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Xvy_Yyp5c

This information doesn’t say when, but we can reasonably ascertain that it was within a time frame between February 1, 2009 and LE’s arrival at Green Drive after the 911 call.

Ronald Cummings himself told us in the Cobra tapes that JO “stole” his pistol on the third day of his visit:



We also know that Ronald told the first Officer to the scene on February 10th the gun was in his house.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/02/13/putnam.pdf

We don't know when Ronald Cummings was at 130 Magnolia with this gun. Frankly, I don’t believe anything about this convoluted story of Joe Overstreet “stealing” Ronald’s gun. I certainly don’t believe that he “found” this gun through some type of telepathic thought process.

What I do believe however, is something I read recently here at WS in another member’s comment. “There is some truth in every lie”. Although we don’t know when, Ronald Cummings himself has apparently said he was there with the gun.

It is at least possible that the “when” is the afternoon of February 9, 2009 and with this new information, your theory of the horrible consequences becomes more credible.

:waitasec: Well it sounds to me that this happen Feb 9-10th. Because if he got the gun out of the culvert from Hank Sr.'s house on Magnolia and turned it over to LE it had to be Feb 9-10 when Haleigh was reported missing I would assume. That is when LE took the Barreta, it was that night because Ron kept saying that he would shoot the person that stole his child.

Cobra: he recovered the gun, he had a gut feeling he would find the gun in a culver in a drainage ditch covered by a board at Hank Sr. house. When he found the gun he washed it clean and turned over to LE.

Now, if we go back and listen to the other interview with Ron and Cobra, Ron states he was the one that hid the gun and cleaned. So which is it?

 

[Skully]

Here is what I don't understand, and I am not questioning the your thoughts that Ron had shot Haleigh by accident or he was in someway responsible:

WHY are they not pointing to him and accusing him of this? Why are they accusing Joe? I don't buy the Joe story for on minute, not one. He may have "helped" but I don't think he did what MC and TC are saying.

Ron from day one acted like a guilty party to all of this. Maybe it was because he thought he was responsible because Misty told him he was, IDK. Is he that scary even in jail that Tommy won't say what happened if Ron shot Haleigh or she OD'? How can he hurt them now?

I think maybe Tommy and Misty killed Haleigh, but told Ron it was because he hit her or she died due to his drugs left out, that would make him help in a cover up if that was the case. If he shot her, and he may have by accident, why aren't they telling what happened now? Why is he going to get a deal? Misty will end up with life, Tommy got 15 years, I Don't know what Donna B got, Hope ended up with 15, and Ron, well we will have to see. I don't understand with that rap sheet as long as my arm, how he keeps cutting deals. And this one, on this daughter's death investigation.

 

[Skully]

:waitasec: Well it sounds to me that this happen Feb 9-10th. Because if he got the gun out of the culvert from Hank Sr.'s house on Magnolia and turned it over to LE it had to be Feb 9-10 when Haleigh was reported missing I would assume. That is when LE took the Barreta, it was that night because Ron kept saying that he would shoot the person that stole his child.

Cobra: he recovered the gun, he had a gut feeling he would find the gun in a culver in a drainage ditch covered by a board at Hank Sr. house. When he found the gun he washed it clean and turned over to LE.

Now, if we go back and listen to the other interview with Ron and Cobra, Ron states he was the one that hid the gun and cleaned. So which is it?

And Misty says she found the gun in the ditch under the board. That was in the session with the SVA and LDT and Hypnosis with TES.

 

[Emeralgem]

Here is what I don't understand, and I am not questioning the your thoughts that Ron had shot Haleigh by accident or he was in someway responsible:

WHY are they not pointing to him and accusing him of this? Why are they accusing Joe? I don't buy the Joe story for on minute, not one. He may have "helped" but I don't think he did what MC and TC are saying.

Ron from day one acted like a guilty party to all of this. Maybe it was because he thought he was responsible because Misty told him he was, IDK. Is he that scary even in jail that Tommy won't say what happened if Ron shot Haleigh or she OD'? How can he hurt them now?

I think maybe Tommy and Misty killed Haleigh, but told Ron it was because he hit her or she died due to his drugs left out, that would make him help in a cover up if that was the case. If he shot her, and he may have by accident, why aren't they telling what happened now? Why is he going to get a deal? Misty will end up with life, Tommy got 15 years, I Don't know what Donna B got, Hope ended up with 15, and Ron, well we will have to see. I don't understand with that rap sheet as long as my arm, how he keeps cutting deals. And this one, on this daughter's death investigation.

Bern, your guess is as good as mine.. As to WHY Ronald Cummings' name has never been mentioned as being directly involved in what happened to Haleigh is beyond baffling IMHO..
And I just can't wrap my mind around Tommy, Misty or Jo killing Haleigh and Ronald Cummings allowing any of them to continue to live..JMHO

 

[MADJGNLAW]

And Misty says she found the gun in the ditch under the board. That was in the session with the SVA and LDT and Hypnosis with TES.

Yep, I recall that as well Bern and I was it not Chelsea that was with during this gun search? Something is not adding up..

 

[Emeralgem]

Yep, I recall that as well Bern and I was it not Chelsea that was with during this gun search? Something is not adding up..

It is adding up to me..It's all been a pack of lies to coverup the fact Haleigh was shot...Since her father can't keep his stories straight and took it upon himself to wipe the gun clean and wash the gun, I suspect he is the one who shot her...JMHO

 

[doobiedoo52]

:waitasec: Well it sounds to me that this happen Feb 9-10th. Because if he got the gun out of the culvert from Hank Sr.'s house on Magnolia and turned it over to LE it had to be Feb 9-10 when Haleigh was reported missing I would assume. That is when LE took the Barreta, it was that night because Ron kept saying that he would shoot the person that stole his child.

Cobra: he recovered the gun, he had a gut feeling he would find the gun in a culver in a drainage ditch covered by a board at Hank Sr. house. When he found the gun he washed it clean and turned over to LE.

Now, if we go back and listen to the other interview with Ron and Cobra, Ron states he was the one that hid the gun and cleaned. So which is it?

I have listened to that interview quite a few times and I guess I'm hearing it differently. I believe RC meant he cleaned and hid the gun AFTER they found it in the culvert. As far as him saying that he(RC) found it, I take that as a
part of his personality. HE is the one who does everything--Misty is his slave in his mind--he sent her to look but I imagine he was on the phone the whole time with her. Quite honestly, she probably needed someone to tell her to look under things, etc--she couldn't even answer questions later without looking to him for what to say or do. JMO

But BRAVO folks! It didn't even cross my mind that the culvert was at Magnolia and not Tyler! Once the MH was considered a crime scene, it was off limits and I'll bet dollars to donuts they moved over to Magnolia until their "camper" arrived for them to stay closer. That would also explain RC seeing the girlfriend looking under the culvert when he came out of the house. I always wondered how he could see that far to Tommy's driveway from Green!!!
Excellent job!


culvert

 

[bessie]

Bern, your guess is as good as mine.. As to WHY Ronald Cummings' name has never been mentioned as being directly involved in what happened to Haleigh is beyond baffling IMHO..
And I just can't wrap my mind around Tommy, Misty or Jo killing Haleigh and Ronald Cummings allowing any of them to continue to live..JMHO

Maybe this part is clearer to me because I share Bern's theory. I dunno, but this is how I see it.

• Ron believed he was responsible. He wanted to keep everything on the down low to avoid opening a can of worms. Not only was LE asking questions, Kim P and DCF were snooping around.
• Later he suspects the story was not the way Misty originally told it, but now he's guilty of a cover up. And there's still that can of worms.
• You said yourself that Ron's first interest is protecting himself. When it comes to avenging Haleigh's murder, I think he's capable of holding back if it would mean going to jail.
• Just to add, I think the big fight with Timmy and the dead rat occurred at a time when Ron was beginning to put the pieces together and was paranoid. I think suspecting, but not know for sure, if Misty and Tommy were lying to him was tearing him up.

 

[Emeralgem]

I have listened to that interview quite a few times and I guess I'm hearing it differently. I believe RC meant he cleaned and hid the gun AFTER they found it in the culvert. As far as him saying that he(RC) found it, I take that as a
part of his personality. HE is the one who does everything--Misty is his slave in his mind--he sent her to look but I imagine he was on the phone the whole time with her. Quite honestly, she probably needed someone to tell her to look under things, etc--she couldn't even answer questions later without looking to him for what to say or do. JMO

But BRAVO folks! It didn't even cross my mind that the culvert was at Magnolia and not Tyler! Once the MH was considered a crime scene, it was off limits and I'll bet dollars to donuts they moved over to Magnolia until their "camper" arrived for them to stay closer. That would also explain RC seeing the girlfriend looking under the culvert when he came out of the house. I always wondered how he could see that far to Tommy's driveway from Green!!!
Excellent job!


culvert

One question... How could he see his girlfriend looking under any culvert to find any gun AFTER the gun had already been confiscated by LE...
Also, IIRC he, his family and the Sheffield/ Griffis family all stayed in the same tent the first night close to the MH where the alleged abduction took place..I believe it was KB who revealed that tid bit of information.......JMHO

 

[Emeralgem]

Maybe this part is clearer to me because I share Bern's theory. I dunno, but this is how I see it.

• Ron believed he was responsible. He wanted to keep everything on the down low to avoid opening a can of worms. Not only was LE asking questions, Kim P and DCF were snooping around.
• Later he suspects the story was not the way Misty originally told it, but now he's guilty of a cover up. And there's still that can of worms.
• You said yourself that Ron's first interest is protecting himself. When it comes to avenging Haleigh's murder, I think he's capable of holding back if it would mean going to jail.
• Just to add, I think the big fight with Timmy and the dead rat occurred at a time when Ron was beginning to put the pieces together and was paranoid. I think suspecting, but not know for sure, if Misty and Tommy were lying to him was tearing him up.

Bessie, That just doesn't fit for me..From the very beginning he was correcting Misty telling GVS he knew exactly where those beds were that night.. Correcting his mother on national tv.. But hey, who knows you could be right and I'm just a crazy old woman..

My fear is he will get away with this..
And IMHO setting others up to take the fall for something as tragic as being responsible for the death of your own child is even worse than being the one who is actually responsible for the death of their own child...How evil is that?

Also, I have never stated Ron C purposely killed Haleigh but I do believe due to his out of control rageful behavior he is the one who is responsible for Haleigh's death and a coverup was immediately initiated to keep the truth from being revealed and to set up those he enlisted HELP from that night... JMHO

 

[Indiana at Heart]

Ok, I have been thinking on this long and hard.

TC was at the MH earlier that night and so was AS what if TC or AS carried out HaLeigh then?

Don’t know how they would of got her out. But I feel this is when HaLeigh left the MH.

Where were these two people from the time they left the MH til HaLeigh was reported missing?

 

[doobiedoo52]

One question... How could he see his girlfriend looking under any culvert to find any gun AFTER the gun had already been confiscated by LE...
Also, IIRC he, his family and the Sheffield/ Griffis family all stayed in the same tent the first night close to the MH where the alleged abduction took place..I believe it was KB who revealed that tid bit of information.......JMHO

Even if they stayed in a tent, they probably went somewhere like Magnolia to take a shower, etc. He simply said he was coming down from the house and saw the girlfriend looking-----she LOOKED only--obviously she didn't find it because it was already gone. But that gave him a good idea that the person who hid it there had informed her of its location. He merely observed her looking in the culvert.

 

[Emeralgem]

Even if they stayed in a tent, they probably went somewhere like Magnolia to take a shower, etc. He simply said he was coming down from the house and saw the girlfriend looking-----she LOOKED only--obviously she didn't find it because it was already gone. But that gave him a good idea that the person who hid it there had informed her of its location. He merely observed her looking in the culvert.

So NOW we have yet another story from Ronald Cummings? Imagine that.. I'm thnking he is attempting to set up Misty with that one..
She is a stooopid stoopid girl.. She lies for him and he sets her up...

JMHOOTS

 

[Concerned Papa]

CP, Thank you for posting this information...When was the exact location about the gun in the culvert story revealed? I know we all attempted to figure that one out for months on end...IIRC..We all thought it was the culvert at Tommy's house on Tyler Street.. Again, thanks.. The puzzle seems to be coming together....JMHO

Just in the past few days. The AH article was posted last Friday, 8/20, and the Cobra tape is snipped from an article posted this past Sunday, 8/22, by TJ Hart at:

http://audio.thesky973.com/m/audio/33731664/cobra-staubs-which-gun-was-stolen.htm?pageid=28469