George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[ilovewings]

punching someone and breaking their nose and pounding their head against a sidewalk is a crime and it is illegal.

Trayvon Martin's actions that night are the solid reason he is dead.

If he would not have done what he did to George, George would not have had to use legal force to save his life.

JMO.

clearly you are buying George's story; first of all if you read the med records you will see that it was not determined that George's nose was broken; the next day when he went to a doctor (yes the next day cause he didn't get medical treatment that night for his "grievous injuries"). they said nose"likely broken"; secondly he had two small lacerations on the back of his head. if someone's head is bashed against concrete don't you think they would have a headache and symptoms that required hospitalization? if you look at the video of George at the police station shortly after the incident he is walking fine, no evidence of swaying or dizziness; he looks perfectly normal. Please think about his story instead of buying it without investigating the evidence. it appears there was a scuffle of some sort but IMO not the way George describes it.

 

[m00c0w]

There is no evidence that would support that GZ was beaten down.He had a swollen nose and a few abrasions on his head.
This wasn't just someone being near.TM may have been in defensive mode due to his fear of GZ.Wouldn't you be in fear of a strange man watching you and following you as well.
You can't shoot and kill a person for a punch in the nose or a few abrasions after you caused the contact via pursuit of the person.
IMO

I would be in fear of a strange man. But not in fear of my life.

In such instances, you have a legally-obligated duty to retreat in Florida.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In normal every day life Linda, yes. Known more than a few people like her.
Testifying in a high profile murder trial....Nooooo!

You must follow more cases that aren't high profile

 

[polleypockets]

George responded with "What are you doing around here".

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/cnr.03.html

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trayvon said what are you following me for? Then the man said, what you doing around here? Then somebody pushed Trayvon because the headset just fell.

She's lying and lying BIG time.

thats exactly what i am saying, tm ask why are you following me and gz say what are you doing here - how does that alleviate his fears??

 

[iluvmua]

There is no evidence that would support that GZ was beaten down.He had a swollen nose and a few abrasions on his head.
This wasn't just someone being near.TM may have been in defensive mode due to his fear of GZ.Wouldn't you be in fear of a strange man watching you and following you as well.
You can't shoot and kill a person for a punch in the nose or a few abrasions after you caused the contact via pursuit of the person.
IMO

Where's the evidence that he persued him? He stopped and there is no other credible evidence to suggest he didn't, even the own state can't say he did not return to his vehicle.

You can because what Trayvon did is illegal and a crime

JMO

 

[gxm]

I respectfully disagree with you. My hearing is pretty close to perfect since my eyesight is so bad. I can tell you what is going on in another room that I can not see into from the sounds I hear. A decision is being made about what a witness could possibly hear when we have no idea how well she can actually hear.

Yes, in the case of sensory disability, the brain learns to compensate. But people accustomed to multisensory recognition must be taught unimodal recognition, which I doubt any of the state's ear witnesses has. As of yet, the state has supplied not one witness who was present during the altercation and who can provide a real time, firsthand account of what happened. JMO, OMO, MOO.

 

[Karmady]

Here is a better image of his nose where you can clearly tell it's offset in the middle:

Of course you can. It's obvious that he sustained serious injuries.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I'm sure he said that to sound cool to his female friend.

Well evidently he's infallible to some people, regardless of what filth came from his mouth.

 

[m00c0w]

Where's the evidence that he persued him? He stopped and there is no other credible evidence to suggest he didn't, even the own state can't say he did not return to his vehicle.

You can because what Trayvon did is illegal and a crime

JMO

No, you cannot shoot someone for merely punching you in the nose.

 

[kaRN]

He's not charged with stalking, so it doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it qualifies as stalking under Florida law. I don't think it does. Not by a long shot.

That's never been the issue Karmady. Not being charged with something doesn't mean it didn't happen. Rapes, child abductions, murders, DV all go unreported and uncharged.
Stalking is a behavior that gets charged if reported and the kid was dead so all reports at the scene were from GZ who had lots of secondary gain reasons for switching things up. It does matter very much if GZ was taking repeated actions like following in a car, then on foot here and there while TM was walking home and TM was scared enough to tell his friend and about and god forbid confront his stalker over it.

 

[iluvmua]

Just jumping off, not directed at you:

Didn't George claim in one of his accounts that Trayvon went for the gun?

Sorry, you right, I remember him saying that now.

this case can get so confusing at times.

 

[Truthy]

i can find it, it was in GZ original statement to police that while TM was on top of him puching him, beating his head into the sidewalk that TM reached down to his holster and grabbed fr the gun and there was a struggle, but he might have change that because there was a big problem, because where GZ said he was sitting on him, he couldn't reach his holster

That is correct- he said Trayvon slid his arm down GZ's body. It stuck out, because it sounded so weird. Who would take time to do that and why would they - in the midst of a fight? And you'd be losing control over the person under you.
Also, both grabbing the gun and the the positioning of the bullet does not jibe with Trayvon sitting on GZ as GZ described. There is so much that is very implausible in GZs story.

 

[Moonie]

There is no evidence that would support that GZ was beaten down.He had a swollen nose and a few abrasions on his head.
This wasn't just someone being near.TM may have been in defensive mode due to his fear of GZ.Wouldn't you be in fear of a strange man watching you and following you as well.
You can't shoot and kill a person for a punch in the nose or a few abrasions after you caused the contact via pursuit of the person.
IMO

Agreed. For all we know GZ could have tripped and fell on the sidewalk while trying to detain TM. Then got up and continued to pursue. There are a number of scenarios that could have happened. It's too hard to say what really took place.

 

[raine1212]

Closing in 5 mins

 

[kimlynn]

I would be in fear of a strange man. But not in fear of my life.

In such instances, you have a legally-obligated duty to retreat in Florida.

TM was a teenager and might well have been in fear of a grown man who was obviously intent on keeping him in his sights.
I wish GZ had retreated.
IMO

 

[m00c0w]

That's never been the issue Karmady. Not being charged with something doesn't mean it didn't happen. Rapes, child abductions, murders, DV all go unreported and uncharged.
Stalking is a behavior that gets charged if reported and the kid was dead so all reports at the scene were from GZ who had lots of secondary gain reasons for switching things up. It does matter very much if GZ was taking repeated actions like following in a car, then on foot here and there while TM was walking home and TM was scared enough to tell his friend and about and god forbid confront his stalker over it.

I'm pretty sure the state would have charged him with stalking in addition to everything else if the elements of the crime were actually met.

 

[nnglas]

everything Trayvon did WAS a crime.

So just because he is scared it is not a crime if he punched someone in the nose, broke it and bashed someone's head into the concrete????

It wasn't a crime if he was defending himself. Just like you say GZ shooting an unarmed kid isn't a crime if he was defending himself.

IMO if GZ wasn't acting so tough in the first place none of this would have happened. He called police, that's it, it's all he needs to do. Since when is it a good idea to follow a "suspicious" person. And I don't for one minute that Mr NW go to guy didn't know what street he was on either. And don't even get me started with the "you're gonna die tonight" that sounds like a line from a movie. It is ridiculous. In the various interviews it sounds like GZ is trying to justify his actions. "He was banging my head on concrete, He put his hands over my mouth and nose, I thought he was reaching for the gun, I was the one yelling for help, he's staring at me, he seems like he's on drugs, he has something in his hand, he reaching in his waistband" which is it? It seems like the throw everything against the wall and see what sticks defense.

TM was walking home from a store, talking to his friend on the phone. You do realize that ultimately he died for nothing. They both made bad mistakes however only one of them is dead. So please stop crucifying this kid as some evil when there is no evidence of that yet. The only person's word that we have that TM did any of these things is the man accused of causing his death.


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[AngelWings444]

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His nose looks fine

Thanks Linda! Sure doesn't look broken to me. Even his own PA, said it "might" be broken. I don't think it was, but that is JMO!

I don't see where people are saying he had "lumps" all over his head. He looks like most bald guys I know. Heads are perfectly smooth, they have bumps all over them. His bumps look even when compared to the other side of his head. Again, JMO.

Head wounds bleed like crazy, so do broken noses. The lack of blood tells me they weren't that serious and certainly NOT from getting his head pounded against the concrete. I ask again, where was the concrete? The sidewalk was so far away.

When looking at GZ's wounds, we have to remember that Travyon had no notable marks on this right hand, which was dominate. His left had had a 1/4" abrasion..that is IT! If you punch someone, you punch them with your dominate hand and you would certainly have marks on your hands!

There is just something off with these "wounds" compared to the "story", compared to the evidence. JMO

 

[iluvmua]

Just curious, would you feel that way if it were your child put in this situation?


I think this was an unfortunate turn of events. I'm still not sure what exactly happened, but as of right now, I don't feel like someone should have been killed over it.

I also don't think someone should have been attacked just because they wanted to know where a suspicious person went and what they were doing in their neighboorhood after recent break ins.

JMO

 

[raine1212]

Closing in 2 mins