George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[Jane Jetson]

he wasn't back at the vehicle, he was 700 ft from his house - and she said the last thin TM said was get off of me, which imo makes me beileve that some how GM has put his hands on him - and if what she said was true do you still think TM was the agressor??

BBM: That's a big "if."

 

[m00c0w]

I'm still confused. George isn't dead.
Sometimes it's exactly as it appears. Very minor superficial injuries. Nothing IMO that appears a fight for his life.
Not a mark on his hands... Just the slightest scrape on one of TM fingers.

I just finished watching GZ walk through again... He certainly was treated oddly by LE IMO

My point is that "It looks like minor injuries" doesn't mean that there was not a fracture, or something not readily apparent.

 

[Karmady]

It was testified to today and you heard that already. I posted the link above to what Florida defines stalking to be but here it is again. http://www.flsenate.gov/laws/statutes/2011/784.048


It was stalking according to the State of Florida and the perception of the young woman who testified today and described what TM said was happening. The fact TM was a minor only adds to that IMO.

He's not charged with stalking, so it doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it qualifies as stalking under Florida law. I don't think it does. Not by a long shot.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

Except that is not true. Elements have been added since she first gave her version of events:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."​

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.UcucED7EqgQ

Absolutely nothing about the "Get off, get off" dialogue.

If Zimmerman's claims can be held to such level of scrutiny, so can hers.

Sounds to me like her story is pretty well the same as what she testified to in court today. I would be more worried if her story was word for word the same, and sounded scripted. I think she told the truth as she remembered it. TM ran, thought he lost the guy following him, was then cornered and a confrontation ensued. She lost contact with him, and didn't hear from him again.

IMO she's not a discredited witness at this point. Just a nervous teenager who didn't want to be there. I guess we'll see what the DT brings out tomorrow.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Let's introduce this litmus test:

Would you have killed Zimmerman if he was following you, as he allegedly did Martin? Would you have shot him after he said "What are you doing around here?"

I would have no problem shooting him if he grabbed me. Ear witness says she heard TM say "get off me" twice. I'm more apt to believe GA did try to detain TM. George's own description makes zero sense.

 

[rabidstoat]

I got tired of listening to the defense constantly ask DeeDee about her relationship with Travon. I got tired of listening to why she didn't attend the service, etc.... The value she offers is her phone call with Travon, that to me is a big piece of what happened. Her speech is slow and she is hard to understand, maybe she can only take in so much after that she seems to get frustrated. He kept on pounding her with questions I felt were not important, but then again I'm not a lawyer :rockon: I also believe what she had to say, I think she simply wanted to stay on point and that was her phone call with Travon, not other stuff. :twocents:

She did sound frustrated. I can imagine her thinking: "You idiot, I have eyes, you have eyes, everyone has eyes, I don't want to be here today, I sure as <bleep> don't want to be here tomorrow, are you seriously going to waste my time reading every single start-and-stop in the phone conversations, what does it even MATTER get on with it!"

She sounded like a teenager, and a bit immature at that -- and I mean 'immature' in the sense of 'not emotionally as mature as others her age might be right now', not in a derogatory sense. I think she was candid, inappropriately so for a court of law but that's what you get, it is what it is.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but I think the questions about things not directly related to the phone call are made because, even though the witnesses aren't on trial, the jury is instructed that they need to decide how much trust to put in what they say: you can believe all of it, or none of it, or parts of it. So the prosecution wants to prove that she's credible, and the defense will want to prove that she isn't. It sucks for the witness (well, assuming they're not a paid expert witness who knows what they're getting into presumably) but that's how it works. Barring magical lie detectors, people need to make the assessment of who to believe somehow.

 

[m00c0w]

I would have no problem shooting him if he grabbed me. Ear witness says she heard TM say "get off me" twice. I'm more apt to believe GA did try to detain TM. George's own description makes zero sense.

That is not what I asked. Others have stated that someone merely following them would put them in fear of their life. I am asking based on that, and that alone.

Thanks.

 

[iluvmua]

if i was a teen followed by a man and was "scared for my life", i would've found a safe place to go (plenty of homes nearby!!) and/or called 911...

argument does not hold water for me.

He also could have knocked on the nearest door for help also.

 

[m00c0w]

Here is a better image of his nose where you can clearly tell it's offset in the middle:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Zimmerman blew it out of proportion and reached for his very handy weapon.IMO

Too handy IMO... Right along with his two flashlights.

 

[claudicici]

I posed the question to you.

Let me ask again:

Would you have killed Zimmerman if he was following you, as he allegedly did Martin? Would you have shot him after he said "What are you doing around here?"

I was followed and raped when I was 13.I still don't believe in carrying guns.Carry a tazer. I would absolutely without a doubt advice any teenager who has the strength to fight like crazy if he's being followed.I don't believe in killing people,not even in self defense.Life is precious.

 

[Nymeria]

Again, she is not a professional. She was not called as an expert witness, so comparing her with ALV is not really fair to her.

O/T- Sleuth I love your new avi!
That lil guy is the ****!
Can you believe the owner of that lil (now deceased ) guinea sold that suit for $24,000?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I posed the question to you.

Let me ask again:

Would you have killed Zimmerman if he was following you, as he allegedly did Martin? Would you have shot him after he said "What are you doing around here?"

Lets say you're sitting in a bar and decide to pick a fight with someone, and they hit you, do you now have the right to kill him?

 

[kimlynn]

People have been convicted of murder for shooting a person that pulled a knife on them.

Beating someone down that was near you is not a valid argument.

IMO

There is no evidence that would support that GZ was beaten down.He had a swollen nose and a few abrasions on his head.
This wasn't just someone being near.TM may have been in defensive mode due to his fear of GZ.Wouldn't you be in fear of a strange man watching you and following you as well.
You can't shoot and kill a person for a punch in the nose or a few abrasions after you caused the contact via pursuit of the person.
IMO

 

[raine1212]

Closing in 10 mins

 

[iluvmua]

I was followed and raped when I was 13.I still don't believe in carrying guns.Carry a tazer. I would absolutely without a doubt advice any teenager who has the strength to fight like crazy if he's being followed.I don't believe in killing people,not even in self defense.Life is precious.

Sorry that happened to you.

I would if I had to , JMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Where have I posted that? Quotes were getting mixed up earlier.

There is no evidence to suggest Trayvon went for the gun.

Just jumping off, not directed at you:

Didn't George claim in one of his accounts that Trayvon went for the gun?

 

[m00c0w]

Lets say you're sitting in a bar and decide to pick a fight with someone, and they hit you, do you now have the right to kill him?

Nope.

<modsnip>

 

[iluvmua]

Lets say you're sitting in a bar and decide to pick a fight with someone, and they hit you, do you now have the right to kill him?

You do if you have no way to retreat and they are bashing your head against the sidewalk and they also broke your nose.

IMO

 

[Moonie]

I disagree.
I believe it was justifiable. Self defense.

Just curious, would you feel that way if it were your child put in this situation?


I think this was an unfortunate turn of events. I'm still not sure what exactly happened, but as of right now, I don't feel like someone should have been killed over it.