Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #3

[RichardKimble]

But it would have to be a very visible mark/scar for it to be noticeable. That's why I'm wondering where such a scar from such an op would be on the male body for it to be visible through tights.

Unless someone got up close and personal the scrotum scar wouldn't be seen imo, did CB force HaB into oral, but it's hypothetical because what we've seen from what's reported no mention had been made, I'm pretty sure our esteemed colleagues in the media would have picked up on this.
Another point from that is, FF brought it up in court, it can't now be mentioned by a victim because if not mentioned before then it could easily be pointed out it was heard in court first.

 

[Davieson]

He may have shaved or got waxed

Maybe he did.
Maybe she was forced to perform oral sex
These are details we are not privy to.

 

[Lilly b]

Indeed but HaB made no mention of this.

no mention of pubic hair colour or length, if any at all, no mention at all, but of some sort of mark that she didn't know what it was. Have you read about how long the assault was ? You would notice things in that length of time.

 

[RichardKimble]

no mention of pubic hair colour or length, if any at all, no mention at all, but of some sort of mark that she didn't know what it was. Have you read about how long the assault was ? You would notice things in that length of time.

But the mark was on the right thigh, I think FF brought the scar to emphasise that is the only one he has and no one mentioned it.Moo.

 

[Davieson]

no mention of pubic hair colour or length, if any at all, no mention at all, but of some sort of mark that she didn't know what it was. Have you read about how long the assault was ? You would notice things in that length of time.

Given that he allegedly raped her three times, he either had incredible good recovery time, or the assault was prolonged for several hours.
If I recall correctly, the DM rape was over in quite a short time.

What intrigues me is if he was wearing tights, how did the rape happen? Did he pull them down, or was there already a useful slit in a strategic place. Again, something not mentioned.

 

[RichardKimble]

Given that he allegedly raped her three times, he either had incredible good recovery time, or the assault was prolonged for several hours.
If I recall correctly, the DM rape was over in quite a short time.

What intrigues me is if he was wearing tights, how did the rape happen? Did he pull them down, or was there already a useful slit in a strategic place. Again, something not mentioned.

Reported he also was wearing women's bikini bottom of underware.

 

[Anxala]

But is it anything like she described or in the right area. A scar made in relation to a testicular operation would be low down near the scrotal sac and would normally be obscured by pubic hair.

Yes, that's what I'm asking for clarification on and where I figured such a scar/mark would be on the male body from such an op.

But I hope we can all agree that this doesn't at all reflect negatively on HaB's account of her attacker. The only thing it raises questions about is the identity of her attacker.

 

[RichardKimble]

Behind the paywall, is this what happened in court today ?

Christian B .: Investigation into possible witness initiated​

Braunschweig. An ex-BKA official has served to defend himself and wants to unpack the alleged conspiracy against the accused.

Christian B.: Ermittlungen gegen mögliche Zeugin eingeleitet

Eine Ex-BKA-Beamtin hat sich der Verteidigung angedient. Sie will auspacken über ein angebliches Komplott gegen den Angeklagten. Die Staatsanwaltschaft Braunschweig verdächtigt sie, Dienstgeheimnisse zu verletzen.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

 

[RichardKimble]

Yes, that's what I'm asking for clarification on and where I figured such a scar/mark would be on the male body from such an op.

But I hope we can all agree that this doesn't at all reflect negatively on HaB's account of her attacker. The only thing it raises questions about is the identity of her attacker.

He can't be identified from a non existent scar, what happened to the alleged witnesses of him exiting the apartment of HaB.

 

[Davieson]

He can't be identified from a non existent scar, what happened to the alleged witnesses of him exiting the apartment of HaB.

Tabloid inventiveness ?

I really do wonder how much of what we read in the media is based on truth.

 

[RichardKimble]

DBM.

 

[RichardKimble]

Tabloid inventiveness ?

I really do wonder how much of what we read in the media is based on truth.

It was the Sun last year who came up with someone seeing CB leaving HaBs apartment.

 

[RichardKimble]

Tabloid inventiveness ?

I really do wonder how much of what we read in the media is based on truth.

Very little ?

 

[Mex]

Where has HaB been denigrated? No one is denigrating her. She's being asked about the dna traces found in the underwear she was wearing on the evening of the rape. It's her bf's dna. The judge is asking for clarity, that's all. HaB's not being judged in any way whatsoever for having sex, merely being asked if she can recall when she had sex with her bf on the day of the assault/rape. The judge is just doing her job.

I am aware that the inclusion of third party relations is nothing more or less in a rape trial than a diversion particularly since I can recall when the norm was great weight was given to a woman's attire.

I also remember well when a rape victim committed suicide after being made to hold up her pants in open court for no good reason at all.
Bearing in mind that HB recounted to the court that she had been on the verge of taking her own life as a result of her rape ordeal all those years ago. She isn't made of stone and one can only shudder at what emotions the present trial has stirred up for her.

Snip i
Women in Ireland and across the world have shared images of their underwear on Twitter, with the hashtag #ThisIsNotConsent, following a case in Cork in which a senior defence counsel used an alleged rape victim's choice of underwear - in this case a thong - to argue that she consented to sex.
Snip ii
Her mother - LA - said she assumed the experience her late daughter endured in relation to her underwear was something that no longer happened.
"I am shocked this kind of thing is still being used as evidence."

'I'm shocked this is still happening' - Mum of teen rape victim who died by suicide after being forced to hold up underwear in court

The mother of a Scottish teenage rape victim who took her own life after being forced to hold up her underwear in court has said she is "appalled" by the recent case in this country that has prompted widespread protests.

www.independent.ie

Snip
As Lord Coleridge noted all those years ago, there is no probative connection between consenting to one person and consent to a different person.
The Heilbron Report agreed, concluding that third-party sexual history evidence is ‘of no significance so far as credibility is concerned and is only rarely likely to be relevant to issues directly before the jury’.16 The Report recommended that ‘in general’ third-party sexual history evidence ‘ought not to be introduced’.17 Nonetheless, there are those who have maintained its relevance to consent. In the legislative debates leading to the 1999 Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act, the then Lord Chief Justice Lord Bingham stated that where the defence wished to ask a complainant whether she had voluntarily had sexual intercourse with men other than the accused on the days before and after an alleged rape, ‘no rational person would think that those questions are irrelevant’. He continued that this evidence or questioning was relevant both to the ‘truth of the complaint made’ and to the defence of consent and that this was only ‘good sense’.18 This serves to highlight the tenacity of some beliefs regarding sexual history evidence and its relevance and brings to mind the cautionary note sounded by Canadian Justice L’Heureux-Dubé:

Regardless of the definition used, the content of any relevancy decision will be filled by the particular judge’s experience, common sense and/or logic. There are certain areas of enquiry where experience, common sense and logic are informed by stereotype and myth…This area of the law has been particularly prone to the utilisation of stereotype in the determination of relevance.19

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0022018317728824

Maybe I am just more cynical than you are about the lengths CB's defence team will plumb when it comes to denigrating witnesses.

 

[Davieson]

It was the judge asking these questions, not the defence lawyers.

 

[Mex]

From the extract posted it appears that it was the judge asking these questions, not the defence.

We really know very little about the coverage of the trial or who is leading with what but I am totally mystified by the introduction of third party sex. Do you have any ideas?

Snip
Similarly, while restrictions may have been introduced on sexual history evidence (such as identifiable acts or practices), evidence relating to ‘sexual character’ may continue to be admitted with adverse impacts.25 ‘Sexual character’, often implied by innuendo, references to women’s lifestyles, personal habits, dress and such like, can be more nebulous than specific instances of sexual history, making it more difficult to control or deny. In practice, evidence implying sexual character invites moral judgments about complainants, with the risk of influencing determinations as to credibility and responsibility.
Related to this use of sexual history evidence is the argument that the ‘task of the defence’ is to ‘normalize rape into sex’.26 The more the defence can assimilate the activities under scrutiny in the trial to normal, everyday sexual behaviour, the less likely the jury are to consider the events to constitute rape.27

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0022018317728824

 

[Davieson]

It's no concern of mine . IMO the judges are entitled to ask whatever they like in their own court in order to clarify issues.

 

[misty48]

We really know very little about the coverage of the trial or who is leading with what but I am totally mystified by the introduction of third party sex. Do you have any ideas?

Snip
Similarly, while restrictions may have been introduced on sexual history evidence (such as identifiable acts or practices), evidence relating to ‘sexual character’ may continue to be admitted with adverse impacts.25 ‘Sexual character’, often implied by innuendo, references to women’s lifestyles, personal habits, dress and such like, can be more nebulous than specific instances of sexual history, making it more difficult to control or deny. In practice, evidence implying sexual character invites moral judgments about complainants, with the risk of influencing determinations as to credibility and responsibility.
Related to this use of sexual history evidence is the argument that the ‘task of the defence’ is to ‘normalize rape into sex’.26 The more the defence can assimilate the activities under scrutiny in the trial to normal, everyday sexual behaviour, the less likely the jury are to consider the events to constitute rape.27

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0022018317728824

I look at it from a more simplistic view. Had HaB not survived the ordeal i.e. she was raped and murdered, who would PJ have been looking at in 2004 - her b/f at the time, with whom she'd argued that night and whose semen was reportedly found in her pants...or an unknown intruder? That's a rhetorical question btw. The embittered JaC should be thankful HaB survived the ordeal and he wasn't incarcerated in a Portuguese jail for crimes he didn't commit. IMO it's important for the judge to establish that HaB was engaging in consensual sex with JaC both before and after the rape. If that wasn't the case then a different picture could be painted.
All imo.

 

[Mex]

I look at it from a more simplistic view. Had HaB not survived the ordeal i.e. she was raped and murdered, who would PJ have been looking at in 2004 - her b/f at the time, with whom she'd argued that night and whose semen was reportedly found in her pants...or an unknown intruder? That's a rhetorical question btw. The embittered JaC should be thankful HaB survived the ordeal and he wasn't incarcerated in a Portuguese jail for crimes he didn't commit. IMO it's important for the judge to establish that HaB was engaging in consensual sex with JaC both before and after the rape. If that wasn't the case then a different picture could be painted.
All imo.

I've been looking at it from a negative point of view; the well considered observations you raise paint a more positive picture.

The embittered boyfriend really can consider himself blessed that HB was not murdered during the rape. All the PJ needed was his name and the case was solved for them. A domestic! Case solved in jig time with no damage to the tourist industry.

I see where you are coming from regarding the judge's close scrutiny of the third party sex and I now see exactly where she was coming from, what she was confirming and where she will go with that confirmation.

 

[Niner]

I believe this article is for Friday & I will use this as reference in my notes.

Woman accusing Christian Brückner of rape says his eyes ‘bored into my skull’

Hazel Behan, who says main suspect in Madeleine McCann case raped her in Portugal in 2004, tells court she will never forget his eyes

www.theguardian.com