Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

Curious about this one, White_Rabbit. What makes you think so?

Hi Fabra.. The nature of the crimes regarding the Gilgo beach 4. The victims seem to be young women all very similar in age and size, they all went missing during the summer, they were all strangled, they were all wrapped in burlap, they were all spaced evenly apart on the water. Everything seemed to be done in the same manner, almost like Unsub was performing some type of ritual.
 
Hi Fabra.. The nature of the crimes regarding the Gilgo beach 4. The victims seem to be young women all very similar in age and size, they all went missing during the summer, they were all strangled, they were all wrapped in burlap, they were all spaced evenly apart on the water. Everything seemed to be done in the same manner, almost like Unsub was performing some type of ritual.
It’s also possible, in relation to physical similarities of the girls, that that is simply his physical preference, or ‘type’. Also, it’s worth noting that they were all quite petite specifically.
 
I’m not well read into the case of the Golden State Killer.

It is a possibility that Unsub may have been able to pass a background check for Law Enforcement, but there are certain aspects of the case, and his personality, that lead me to believe that he could not so easily disguise his psychology.

The first is that he displayed explosive rage when he murdered Unidentified Asian Male. When he discovered he had been deceived and emasculated he completely lost control and beat him viscously to death.

The second is the phone calls to Amanda Barthelemy. Why did he need to call her? He couldn’t control his psychopathy because he has a subconscious need to inflict physical and mental pain not only on his victims, but also the people that cared about them.

(Consciously Unsub may perceive himself to be helping his victims by leading them away from a life of prostitution, or as he puts it, being a “*advertiser censored*”.)

He would have had to disguise anger and psychopathic traits, mental illness, mental illness medications and therapy, drug abuse, rehabilitation facilities like CPEP or South Oaks, etc.. from Law Enforcement in order to pass the background checks, and he seems to display a lack of control of particular dominant emotions to do this.

Even if he had managed to disguise all of this and pass the background checks, his subsequent treatment and handling of Law Enforcement subjects would not have gone unnoticed by his fellow police officers and superiors. Especially his treatment of subjects of prostitution.


When he made the calls the unsub also knew when to get off of the phone and to be in a crowded area. Also making it likely that he has a background in LE.
 
From the LISK podcast/interview w. Gilbert attorney John Ray: Ray alleges that Burke and a former girlfriend named Heather Malone—who Ray points out has the initials of HM—together ran a prostitution ring out of a shared home in St. James.


Have the ever shown a full picture of the belt? Or just the ends with the initials?
 
Thank you. The H in the belt drives me crazy because it looks like the H in the Hurley symbol, the surfing line of clothing, but when I looked up the logo it is just made from parantheses.
 
I believe that this is a well oiled machine that has been established many years ago. There are a lot of people in this machine to ensure that unsub(s) will not get caught. Powerful people. SCPD has always been a corrupt institution and I'm sure there is a ton of blackmailing going on both inside and outside the dept, in various other powerful areas of long island. I believe Oak Beach had always been a secluded area where the people know what's going on and keep quiet. I'm a long island native and the impression that I get is that people don't want to get involved and pretend nothing is going on. I do believe that Burke is one of the killers, but I don't think he's the only one at all. I also think it's naive to think that everyone in LE gets drug tested at all (I have family in LE and the drugs that goes on is really wild). I also think that people can pass a psychological test when you're a raging sociopath. As someone who works in the field of psychiatry, I see this in action all the time. There are more sociopaths in law enforcement, attorneys, etc. Sociopaths are attracted to fields of power where they can blend in with society. This is all IMO.
 
I believe that this is a well oiled machine that has been established many years ago. There are a lot of people in this machine to ensure that unsub(s) will not get caught. Powerful people. SCPD has always been a corrupt institution and I'm sure there is a ton of blackmailing going on both inside and outside the dept, in various other powerful areas of long island. I believe Oak Beach had always been a secluded area where the people know what's going on and keep quiet. I'm a long island native and the impression that I get is that people don't want to get involved and pretend nothing is going on. I do believe that Burke is one of the killers, but I don't think he's the only one at all. I also think it's naive to think that everyone in LE gets drug tested at all (I have family in LE and the drugs that goes on is really wild). I also think that people can pass a psychological test when you're a raging sociopath. As someone who works in the field of psychiatry, I see this in action all the time. There are more sociopaths in law enforcement, attorneys, etc. Sociopaths are attracted to fields of power where they can blend in with society. This is all IMO.

In order to eliminate James Burke as the killer we would need to know where he was or who he was with on the night of each victim’s disappearance. We would also need Amanda Barthelemy and Sara Karnes to listen to his voice to try and compare it to the killer’s voice.

If the theory that there are multiple unsubs is correct then I don’t believe that this case can ever be solved. If James Burke is one of the unsubs, and is the only lead into the group, I don’t see him rolling over.

The only hope then would be that there is sufficient evidence to tie him to any one of the crimes, and the fear of spending the rest of his life in jail will outweigh the fear of the group.

The cases of the Gilgo Beach 4 have too many similarities in the modus operandi for them to be different unsubs.

I still believe that it is one killer and that James Burke could be a suspect, and if that is the case then either SCPD or the FBI can ascertain his alibi the nights of the victim’s disappearances, and perform the voice comparisons of the phone calls.
 
White Rabbit—so many of your questions in relationship to the unknown variables come from the logic of deductive reasoning; anyone that is in LE, or has family that works in LE, knows the value of this type of very rudimentary logic, as it can be (and usually is) applied to virtually every different scenario in life where there are questions without clearly defined answers…
Many items that you mention—questions related to Burke and others—can easily be verified or dismissed. But what if there was no attempt made to prove or disprove? That, by itself alone, defies logic in relationship to the basic procedure of an investigation.
Rather than jump down the rabbit hole of ‘why’, it’s reasonable to assume the obvious: if there is no investigation, there is no arrest(s). Deductive reasoning in this case leads directly back to the investigators, who do NOT want a complete investigation because an investigation will implicate them, or adversely affect their interests in a very damaging way somehow.
 
White Rabbit—so many of your questions in relationship to the unknown variables come from the logic of deductive reasoning; anyone that is in LE, or has family that works in LE, knows the value of this type of very rudimentary logic, as it can be (and usually is) applied to virtually every different scenario in life where there are questions without clearly defined answers…
Many items that you mention—questions related to Burke and others—can easily be verified or dismissed. But what if there was no attempt made to prove or disprove? That, by itself alone, defies logic in relationship to the basic procedure of an investigation.
Rather than jump down the rabbit hole of ‘why’, it’s reasonable to assume the obvious: if there is no investigation, there is no arrest(s). Deductive reasoning in this case leads directly back to the investigators, who do NOT want a complete investigation because an investigation will implicate them, or adversely affect their interests in a very damaging way somehow.

Hi Sleuth_Noob.. the implication you make regarding the investigators is logical, but not necessarily conclusive.

I'll start by saying that there are over 3,000 members of the SCPD covering an area of over 900 square miles and a population of approximately 1.5 million people.

I agree that there is corruption in the department, but don't agree that corruption involves the department in its entirety. I'm friends with a few SCPD officers, and have met quite a few others that I can say act professionally, and sometimes very generously, with the members of the general population.

With that said please allow me to tell you of a personal experience I had with SCPD, as far as their investigative services. I had hired a contractor to work in my house. After a couple of hours the contractor completed the work and went on his way. By chance I had to check my bank account online shortly after he had gone. I noticed that a charge was made on my debit card shortly after the contractor had left. I looked up the address where the charge was made and it happened to be at a convenience store 15 minutes away, and the time that the charge was made was the amount of time it would take to drive from my house to that convenience store.

I looked in my wallet and noticed that my debit card was missing, and immediately went to the convenience store. They had a security camera system with a large television monitor right above the front counter. After explaining to the people behind the counter what had happened I asked them if I could look at the receipt. They ended up showing it to me. The signature on the receipt was most definitely not my signature. Asking if they could show me the video footage at the time the charge was made they refused, and stated that only the police could ask them for the video footage.

The police were called and a patrol car showed up. The officer in the car listened to my story and said that he could not ask for the video footage, but he will forward the complaint to a detective.

It took the detective days to get back to me, and then when he finally did he asked me to meet with them at the store in a few days. I explained to him that it was important to move on this as soon as possible because the video would soon overwrite. He told me he couldn't meet with me any sooner. The day we met at the convenience store he asked the owner to view the footage, and not surprisingly the video was already overwritten. If they had acted promptly they would have had video footage of this contractor using a stolen debit card.

The contractor had stolen $127 from my bank account, and also cash and sentimental jewelry from my children's bedroom. The bank removed the charge from my card, but the cash and sentimental jewelry could not be replaced.

Why did the detectives delay the investigation? Were they apathetic? Was this too minor of a crime for them to be bothered with? Did they have something against me? Did they know the contractor and were trying to protect him? I cannot answer any of those questions conclusively.

It seems that many people are in agreement with the theory that James Burke was involved with the crimes in the Long Island Serial Killer case. I do not dismiss that theory at all. Though being that this is an active investigation the investigators must be extremely careful with any information they release, so as not to tip their hand nor release anything that only the killer would know.

James Burke is no longer police chief and Thomas Spota is no longer District Attorney. There is a new police chief and the FBI has been brought back into the case. Granted this case is in Suffolk County's jurisdiction but what reason would the FBI have to protect James Burke if they suspected him? I'm sure they could ascertain his alibi at the very least.

In this realm we only have public information for the most part, and we can organize that information and develop a theory based on it. Once we have a theory we have to use whatever evidence we have to prove it or disprove it.

I am still focused on Unsub as a white male, between the ages 30 to 49, with friends or relatives in law enforcement, history of drug abuse, history of psychological disorders (Rage, Sociopathy, Psychopathy), has an extreme hatred of women whom he considers to be less than virtuous, who lived in one of the following towns in September 2010: (Bellport, Center Moriches, Moriches, Point Lookout, Yaphank), and whose initials could be either HM or MH?

I'm hoping more information is released to narrow down the possibilities.
 
Hi Sleuth_Noob.. the implication you make regarding the investigators is logical, but not necessarily conclusive.

I'll start by saying that there are over 3,000 members of the SCPD covering an area of over 900 square miles and a population of approximately 1.5 million people.

I agree that there is corruption in the department, but don't agree that corruption involves the department in its entirety. I'm friends with a few SCPD officers, and have met quite a few others that I can say act professionally, and sometimes very generously, with the members of the general population.

With that said please allow me to tell you of a personal experience I had with SCPD, as far as their investigative services. I had hired a contractor to work in my house. After a couple of hours the contractor completed the work and went on his way. By chance I had to check my bank account online shortly after he had gone. I noticed that a charge was made on my debit card shortly after the contractor had left. I looked up the address where the charge was made and it happened to be at a convenience store 15 minutes away, and the time that the charge was made was the amount of time it would take to drive from my house to that convenience store.

I looked in my wallet and noticed that my debit card was missing, and immediately went to the convenience store. They had a security camera system with a large television monitor right above the front counter. After explaining to the people behind the counter what had happened I asked them if I could look at the receipt. They ended up showing it to me. The signature on the receipt was most definitely not my signature. Asking if they could show me the video footage at the time the charge was made they refused, and stated that only the police could ask them for the video footage.

The police were called and a patrol car showed up. The officer in the car listened to my story and said that he could not ask for the video footage, but he will forward the complaint to a detective.

It took the detective days to get back to me, and then when he finally did he asked me to meet with them at the store in a few days. I explained to him that it was important to move on this as soon as possible because the video would soon overwrite. He told me he couldn't meet with me any sooner. The day we met at the convenience store he asked the owner to view the footage, and not surprisingly the video was already overwritten. If they had acted promptly they would have had video footage of this contractor using a stolen debit card.

The contractor had stolen $127 from my bank account, and also cash and sentimental jewelry from my children's bedroom. The bank removed the charge from my card, but the cash and sentimental jewelry could not be replaced.

Why did the detectives delay the investigation? Were they apathetic? Was this too minor of a crime for them to be bothered with? Did they have something against me? Did they know the contractor and were trying to protect him? I cannot answer any of those questions conclusively.

It seems that many people are in agreement with the theory that James Burke was involved with the crimes in the Long Island Serial Killer case. I do not dismiss that theory at all. Though being that this is an active investigation the investigators must be extremely careful with any information they release, so as not to tip their hand nor release anything that only the killer would know.

James Burke is no longer police chief and Thomas Spota is no longer District Attorney. There is a new police chief and the FBI has been brought back into the case. Granted this case is in Suffolk County's jurisdiction but what reason would the FBI have to protect James Burke if they suspected him? I'm sure they could ascertain his alibi at the very least.

In this realm we only have public information for the most part, and we can organize that information and develop a theory based on it. Once we have a theory we have to use whatever evidence we have to prove it or disprove it.

I am still focused on Unsub as a white male, between the ages 30 to 49, with friends or relatives in law enforcement, history of drug abuse, history of psychological disorders (Rage, Sociopathy, Psychopathy), has an extreme hatred of women whom he considers to be less than virtuous, who lived in one of the following towns in September 2010: (Bellport, Center Moriches, Moriches, Point Lookout, Yaphank), and whose initials could be either HM or MH?

I'm hoping more information is released to narrow down the possibilities.
All great points White Rabbit…
 
While doing some research on the days that the GB4 went missing I noticed a pattern.
If you see where I underlined the actual days, with the exception of Maureen's missing day of Monday, they all seem to have fallen on Sundays or Thursdays.

I may not have all the dates correct so please feel free to make any corrections.

Name Day Date Missing Location
Maureen Monday July 9, 2007 Approx Midnight -NYC
Melissa Sunday July 12, 2009 Afternoon- Bronx
Megan Sunday June 6, 2010 Around 1:30 AM- Hauppauge
Amber Thursday Sept 2, 2010 Around 11:00 PM- N Babylon

(side note- Melissa's Voice Mail Activated July 12, 2009 same day (in evening) was traced from cell tower Massapequa)

Also, note the days of the week the calls came in to Melissa's sister
Thursday July 16, 2009 1st Call? - *Note I believe that Melissa's Step Father stated that the calls always
came in around dinner time? It was mentioned on TKS
Sunday July 19, 2009 2nd Call?
Thursday July 23, 2009 "

The Last Call -
Was reported August 26, 2009 1:00 AM which is a Wednesday. Maybe it came in Thursday at 1 am?
(side note it was published in NY Times that the caller said "he just killed Melissa after having sex with her" )
It's a good amount of time from first call to last call, why?

It's also been said that there were up to 7 calls in total but these are the dates that I found so far. Anyone who wants to add or comment, again feel free to do so. Just thought I would share. Not sure if this was posted before or not but it may (or may not) be helpful however, it could provide helpful info w LISK having free time, off from work etc.
 
While doing some research on the days that the GB4 went missing I noticed a pattern.
If you see where I underlined the actual days, with the exception of Maureen's missing day of Monday, they all seem to have fallen on Sundays or Thursdays.

I may not have all the dates correct so please feel free to make any corrections.

Name Day Date Missing Location
Maureen Monday July 9, 2007 Approx Midnight -NYC
Melissa Sunday July 12, 2009 Afternoon- Bronx
Megan Sunday June 6, 2010 Around 1:30 AM- Hauppauge
Amber Thursday Sept 2, 2010 Around 11:00 PM- N Babylon

(side note- Melissa's Voice Mail Activated July 12, 2009 same day (in evening) was traced from cell tower Massapequa)

Also, note the days of the week the calls came in to Melissa's sister
Thursday July 16, 2009 1st Call? - *Note I believe that Melissa's Step Father stated that the calls always
came in around dinner time? It was mentioned on TKS
Sunday July 19, 2009 2nd Call?
Thursday July 23, 2009 "

The Last Call -
Was reported August 26, 2009 1:00 AM which is a Wednesday. Maybe it came in Thursday at 1 am?
(side note it was published in NY Times that the caller said "he just killed Melissa after having sex with her" )
It's a good amount of time from first call to last call, why?

It's also been said that there were up to 7 calls in total but these are the dates that I found so far. Anyone who wants to add or comment, again feel free to do so. Just thought I would share. Not sure if this was posted before or not but it may (or may not) be helpful however, it could provide helpful info w LISK having free time, off from work etc.

If Unsub was off on Sundays and Thursdays that would exclude a lot of 9 to 5 career choices.
 
June 28 2021
Gilgo Beach serial killer: State senator asks for special prosecutor in investigation
''OAK BEACH, N.Y. — State Sen. Phil Boyle, of Bay Shore, called on New York State Attorney General Letitia James to appoint a special prosecutor in the Long Island serial killer investigation Monday, claiming Suffolk County Executive Steve Bellone had been a “protector and enabler” of former police chief James Burke.

“I ask him why he did not fire James Burke when he (Burke) kicked the FBI out of the investigation,” Boyle said of Bellone, addressing a pack of media near the shoreline of Oak Beach.

Oak Beach holds special significance in the serial killer investigation, because an escort named Shannan Gilbert ran frantically from a house party there in the early hours of May 1, 2010.

Her disappearance led to the discovery of 10 sets of remains along Ocean Parkway between December 2010 and April 2011, the first four bodies were discovered in the Gilgo Beach area.

Boyle said Bellone had a close friend in the Oak Beach community.''
 
To add to the above articles, I also found it interesting just to point out SB<--in this article.

Note** I believe there was a typo and the columnist meant to write "Boyle asked" not "Bellone asked" in the 2nd paragraph below. Phil Boyle is the Lawmaker being interviewed

"The lawmaker said he learned or read several pieces of information recently that prompted him to speak out. He cited the Unravel podcast as one such piece of media. In that series, hosts Billy Jensen and Alexis Linkletter spoke to Bellone, who told them he'd concluded Burke was a sociopath.

-->“If you're the boss of the police chief and you find out this guy’s a sociopath, do you keep him as your police chief?” Bellone asked. “I've been seeing more of a connection within the last couple of months reading this stuff than I ever knew there was between Bellone and Burke. It was clear he [Burke] was a close ally of Spota but it appears now that he may have been as close if not closer to Bellone who still is our county executive.

Bellone has not immediately responded to Oxygen.com's request for comment."

‘Too Many Conflicts And Questions’: Lawmaker Demands Answers In Long Island Serial Killer Case
 
June 28 2021
Gilgo Beach serial killer: State senator asks for special prosecutor in investigation
''OAK BEACH, N.Y. — State Sen. Phil Boyle, of Bay Shore, called on New York State Attorney General Letitia James to appoint a special prosecutor in the Long Island serial killer investigation Monday, claiming Suffolk County Executive Steve Bellone had been a “protector and enabler” of former police chief James Burke.

“I ask him why he did not fire James Burke when he (Burke) kicked the FBI out of the investigation,” Boyle said of Bellone, addressing a pack of media near the shoreline of Oak Beach.

Oak Beach holds special significance in the serial killer investigation, because an escort named Shannan Gilbert ran frantically from a house party there in the early hours of May 1, 2010.

Her disappearance led to the discovery of 10 sets of remains along Ocean Parkway between December 2010 and April 2011, the first four bodies were discovered in the Gilgo Beach area.

Boyle said Bellone had a close friend in the Oak Beach community.''
I think it’s about time we all accepted this guy is law enforcement and being protected and some of the Long Island residents replies were disgraceful regarding the victims, these are someone’s daughter, sister, mother etc
 
I think it’s about time we all accepted this guy is law enforcement and being protected and some of the Long Island residents replies were disgraceful regarding the victims, these are someone’s daughter, sister, mother etc

This case can be very confusing because there are so many different dimensions to it. The killings themselves can be broken down into three separate cases:

1) Manslaughter of Shannan Gilbert by Peter Hackett and Michael Pak.

2) Murder of the Gilgo Beach 4 and Unidentified Asian Male by Unsub.

3) Murder of the Jane Does by John Bittrolf.

Then there is another case of what looks like a coverup by elements of Suffolk County Law Enforcement:

4) Corruption, Obstruction of Justice and Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice by James Burke, Thomas Spota, Steve Bellone et al.

I think Cases 1 and 4 are going to reach a state of critical mass very soon.

Case 4 is a matter of tying John Bittrolf to the murders. He’s already in prison for two murders.

Case 2 is going to be prove to be difficult to crack without more evidence and help from the public.
 
If Unsub was off on Sundays and Thursdays that would exclude a lot of 9 to 5 career choices.
Maybe the timing has more to do with the schedule of others in the perp's household,
or even driven to accommodate religious commitments?
Ie.
Sundays- mother/wife goes to church and then spends time visiting relatives, etc.
Thursdays - hair salon, spa day, ''girls night out''.
Conversely, religious.
Not on a Friday so do it Thursday.
Not on a Saturday, do it Sunday.
Speculation, imo.
 
I am still focused on Unsub as a white male, between the ages 30 to 49, with friends or relatives in law enforcement, history of drug abuse, history of psychological disorders (Rage, Sociopathy, Psychopathy), has an extreme hatred of women whom he considers to be less than virtuous, who lived in one of the following towns in September 2010: (Bellport, Center Moriches, Moriches, Point Lookout, Yaphank), and whose initials could be either HM or MH?

I'm hoping more information is released to narrow down the possibilities.

Hi White_Rabbit, I too think it is someone from the Point Lookout area or even more westward, think Lido/Long Beach, East Atlantic Beach, or even Atlantic Beach/Inwood. Do you know what was used to strangle the victims? Bungee cords? I have a "tip" but feel weird submitting to the FBI obviously without more evidence.
 
Hi White_Rabbit, I too think it is someone from the Point Lookout area or even more westward, think Lido/Long Beach, East Atlantic Beach, or even Atlantic Beach/Inwood. Do you know what was used to strangle the victims? Bungee cords? I have a "tip" but feel weird submitting to the FBI obviously without more evidence.
Welcome to Ws thats_sus!
Although your post is in response to another poster, may i suggest you submit your tip to the FBI anyway and let them decide what to do with it? imo.
 

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