Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[Heroine]

ha ha ha, why yes, yes it is. Gotta keep it light somehow )

...blame Canada! no offense to any canadians...its a south park thing. They rag on Americans too and everyone else as a matter of fact lol

 

[LI-Mom]

It is unethical but i guarantee it happens, it also unethical to search of one missing person with way more people for way longer .... do we even need to discuss how that actually plays out in real life ... how many people from the FBI academy were searching for Cassandra Morton does anyone remember? How long did groups of 50-100 searchers search for samantha clark everyday?

I think the fact that JM is a "serial" rapist/killer is what brought out the big guns. If there was nothing to indicate CM and SC were killed by a serial criminal they were probably looking for someone that knew each of them because most murders are by people known to the victim.


On a side note re: HG dental records- Here in NY students need a dental exam every so many years, the schools require them along with a doctor check up. Does VA not do that?

Also, as for the remains being so close to the road and it not being JM's MO. Is it possible he drove down Old Lynchburg with the intention of going to the park but saw the set up for the bike thing and kept driving passed then pulled into that empty property as an alternative? He might have been caught off guard and had to improvise at the last minute which would make his MO appear different. I had quoted something a while back, from an FBI seminar I think, that listed things most often found in serial crimes and one was the dump site being close to a road. Maybe the more females JM killed, the more he began to fit the profile?

 

[GhostGhost]

,

I think Jesse picked a good spot, from his vantage. The body is skeletonized and Medical Examiners are on TV saying they would not expect to find any DNA from the perpetrator at this point.

The guy has to be smarter than what we are being told.

A lot can go wrong driving 11 miles with a live victim. People have died on that road in good conditions. And we know from other cases, girls can bolt into the dark of the night rather easily.

MOO

 

[Le Singe]

He will be tried for the highest crime first. The fairfax abduction/rape is the least of his worries (sadly) he will be charged with MH abduction/capital murder/rape and more than likely HG too. Those 2 carry death penalty. Fairfax will just be added on. He will continue to go to court until all his trials are complete.

It would make sense to do it that way if all the cases were equal quality, but i'm not sure that is the case. Based on what i've seen they usually try their best case first. From what we know, which is surely not everything, the Fairfax case is much more of a sure thing (possibly depending on involvement of the victim) because in this case there is no question that his DNA came directly from the attacker. Seeing that he charged not only rape, but attempted murder I think he could easily get life (guaranteed if they can introduce his history in the sentencing phase). Once he already knows he is never getting out of prison no matter what he might be more willing to give up information for a plea or plea out to LWOP and no chance to appeal to save the families a trial IF thats what the families want (which sometimes they do).

IMO the fact that he has already indicted by a grand jury and a bench warrant was issued today on the Fairfax case might be a hint that they are going ahead with this one first. I think if they can get a conviction on the fairfax case and a life sentence it takes some of the pressure off having to try murder cases that may have some wholes in them.

 

[cluciano63]

Just saw on Hawes Spencer's twitter, a convo b/w him and Coy Barefoot, there were TWO calls to the tipline from TWO separate people about the buzzards at 3193 O.L. Road - one on 9/30 and the second 10/6. Wow. Makes me believe even more that it's her. If buzzards had over a week, I can't even type the rest.

Makes me wonder why the remains were not located much sooner. Two calls should have triggered a search, Imo.

 

[zapped]

I just looked up the sentencing guidelines on the Fairfax charges, if convicted, LE doesnt have to worry about JLM going ANYWHERE for a long, long time.

You can find my post here # 215

If convicted on all charges, JLM is looking at serving at least 2 consecutive life terms.

Perhaps that is why LE seems to be shifting gears and going much more slowly in regards to identification as well as giving us information on the case and in searching areas suspected as a possible dumping ground?

If they can prove capital murder in one or more cases it carries the death penalty.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think the fact that JM is a "serial" rapist/killer is what brought out the big guns. If there was nothing to indicate CM and SC were killed by a serial criminal they were probably looking for someone that knew each of them because most murders are by people known to the victim.


On a side note re: HG dental records- Here in NY students need a dental exam every so many years, the schools require them along with a doctor check up. Does VA not do that?

Also, as for the remains being so close to the road and it not being JM's MO. Is it possible he drove down Old Lynchburg with the intention of going to the park but saw the set up for the bike thing and kept driving passed then pulled into that empty property as an alternative? He might have been caught off guard and had to improvise at the last minute which would make his MO appear different. I had quoted something a while back, from an FBI seminar I think, that listed things most often found in serial crimes and one was the dump site being close to a road. Maybe the more females JM killed, the more he began to fit the profile?

Did they bring out the big guns when they found out that Morgan's killer attempted to murder another woman in 2005?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Makes me wonder why the remains were not located much sooner. Two calls should have triggered a search, Imo.

Especially since LE said on two occasions that tips were slowing down...It made me think they had gone through all of them. I guess the tips about the buzzards were not assigned a high priority, or were likely dismissed as merely being a suggestion.

 

[las726]

I think he got sloppy and started thinking he was invincible. Look how long he's been at it, yet not once did he get in trouble. He went undetected for what I believe to be a a very long decade, even after being accused of rape.

Agreed. I know many people think JM is extremely calculated, but my impression of him is that he thinks he's very smart, but isn't. If you look at how LE in this country chronically mishandles sexual assault and violence against women, it's really not that hard to imagine he could have flown under the radar for this long. But I really don't think he is intelligent enough to elude LE forever. Just the fact that he approached HG in a place that it would be reasonable to assume would have surveillance says to me that he thinks he is invincible and won't be caught by relying on his usual MO. I am so hopeful that this is Hannah and we can bring this creep to justice.

JMO, of course.

 

[RSC]

It would make sense to do it that way if all the cases were equal quality, but i'm not sure that is the case. Based on what i've seen they usually try their best case first. From what we know, which is surely not everything, the Fairfax case is much more of a sure thing (possibly depending on involvement of the victim) because in this case there is no question that his DNA came directly from the attacker. Seeing that he charged not only rape, but attempted murder I think he could easily get life (guaranteed if they can introduce his history in the sentencing phase). Once he already knows he is never getting out of prison no matter what he might be more willing to give up information for a plea or plea out to LWOP and no chance to appeal to save the families a trial IF thats what the families want (which sometimes they do).

IMO the fact that he has already indicted by a grand jury and a bench warrant was issued today on the Fairfax case might be a hint that they are going ahead with this one first. I think if they can get a conviction on the fairfax case and a life sentence it takes some of the pressure off having to try murder cases that may have some wholes in them.

I considered this, but in all honesty, I think they are probably just going forward as fast as the law calls for in all of the cases. The Fairfax case is the fastest simply because enough information was there to pursue the charges. They didn't need to search for a body.

 

[gliving]

Has anyone else here considered, too, that JM may begin his activities up again in the fall when swimming at Walnut Creek Park closes down and activity around the park decreases? On the WCP website yesterday I saw that swimming is available from Memorial Day to Labor Day, except for days when Albemarle County Schools are in session.

http://www.albemarle.org/department.asp?department=parks&relpage=2744

Maybe WCP is HIS playground in the fall and winter, and he just waits for other people to get out of the way. Maybe locals can explain how much less "supervision" the park has after swimming is no longer available in the fall. I believe I have already read that the maintenance hut is unmanned then, and would also assume that the fee-taker's gatehouse would be unmanned.

No telling what they'll find. Yuck.

Speculation, all moo.

I was thinking about this also. When he was arrested on the beach in Texas, he had a complete camping setup. Could he have had a camp in the woods at WCP?

"Authorities caught Jesse Matthew Jr., 32, camping on a beach one mile east of 4th street. Around a fire pit, Matthew had a tent, chair and so many supplies that deputies believe he'd been there for several days.

Tuesday night, the owner of Swede Grocery said Matthew came in asking questions about the beach. He bought bug repellent, filled a jug with water, then left."

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...w-believed-to-been-camping-for-days/16254933/

 

[las726]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but do you all think that the fact that they have yet to identify the remains as HG's and the announcement that they are looking for JM's DNA in AM's car are related somehow? Why wouldn't they have looked into matching this DNA before now?

 

[Slapmyknee]

Just saw on Hawes Spencer's twitter, a convo b/w him and Coy Barefoot, there were TWO calls to the tipline from TWO separate people about the buzzards at 3193 O.L. Road - one on 9/30 and the second 10/6. Wow. Makes me believe even more that it's her. If buzzards had over a week, I can't even type the rest.

The bones, smell and bird thing has really been eating at me. Currently in the County South of us a search is going on for a BOL from July of this year. Hikers reported a foul smell and clothing off a trail. If this is who I think it is, the remains most likely have been at that location most of the summer. I cant get my head around why the remains are just now being reported. Unless this is an area that is not often traveled by summer fishermen and day hikers. Regarding the HG case, I also can't get my head around the lack of smell early on. ( the remains were dumped shortly after the murder) I have seen it stated that decomp occurs quickly in the area the remains were found. Why would not it have smelled shortly after the remains were left? Specially since it has been stated that the remains are bones. To address the neighbors remarking that is was so stinky they had to close the windows..... I guess it could be an animal or did LE not find what was smelling and they will find more.......idk, Some things are not adding up.

 

[RSC]

Agreed. I know many people think JM is extremely calculated, but my impression of him is that he thinks he's very smart, but isn't. If you look at how LE in this country chronically mishandles sexual assault and violence against women, it's really not that hard to imagine he could have flown under the radar for this long. But I really don't think he is intelligent enough to elude LE forever. Just the fact that he approached HG in a place that it would be reasonable to assume would have surveillance says to me that he thinks he is invincible and won't be caught by relying on his usual MO. I am so hopeful that this is Hannah and we can bring this creep to justice.

JMO, of course.

I agree with you. I DO think he was probably overly confident. But he is not actually clever at covering his tracks. He was accused of rape twice, sketched with enough accuracy in 2005 that his own friends recognized it, MH was seen (I think) getting into a cab in 2009, and JM was not only videotaped with HG but seen with her the night of her abduction.

Clever? No. Sadly, I think he has only eluded LE for so long due to either dumb luck or mishandled/missed evidence.

 

[bestill]

Especially since LE said on two occasions that tips were slowing down...It made me think they had gone through all of them. I guess the tips about the buzzards were not assigned a high priority, or were likely dismissed as merely being a suggestion.

And the remains were found exactly where LE were asking people to look....abandoned/vacant property, homes on the market, parks and outdoor settings, rural area, areas familiar to the individual in custody. Someone dropped the ball is my guess. I know that LE were inundated with tips, maybe this will now improve how tips are reviewed.

 

[RSC]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but do you all think that the fact that they have yet to identify the remains as HG's and the announcement that they are looking for JM's DNA in AM's car are related somehow? Why wouldn't they have looked into matching this DNA before now?

The request from RAT's lawyers for the DNA match came more than a week ago. While the delay could be related possibly to finding AM's remains, it is not related to the DNA request, IMO.

 

[RSC]

The bones, smell and bird thing has really been eating at me. Currently in the County South of us a search is going on for a BOL from July of this year. Hikers reported a foul smell and clothing off a trail. If this is who I think it is, the remains most likely have been at that location most of the summer. I cant get my head around why the remains are just now being reported. Unless this is an area that is not often traveled by summer fishermen and day hikers. Regarding the HG case, I also can't get my head around the lack of smell early on. ( the remains were dumped shortly after the murder) I have seen it stated that decomp occurs quickly in the area the remains were found. Why would not it have smelled shortly after the remains were left? Specially since it has been stated that the remains are bones. To address the neighbors remarking that is was so stinky they had to close the windows..... I guess it could be an animal or did LE not find what was smelling and they will find more.......idk, Some things are not adding up.

I think he buried the body, and the recent storms uncovered it. That's also why the buzzards came late. JMO.

 

[deugirtni]

About a week ago, about an hour from where I live, a body was found, I believe by a hiker. It turned out the body was that of a man who had been missing for 2 years. His body was decomposed, and it took only 2 days to find out who he was, even though at the time of finding the body, they didn't know who it was (ie if they had suspected initially that the body was that of this particular missing man, I'm sure the ID would have been even faster). This body had been out in the open, exposed to the elements and wildlife, for 2 years.

 

[LI-Mom]

Did they bring out the big guns when they found out that Morgan's killer attempted to murder another woman in 2005?

There was a rape in 2005, it wasn't until MH's death in 2009 that they found a match. At that point they knew they had someone who had escalated from rape to rape/murder. The knew he would strike again and were ready to go all out when that happened. That happened to be Hannah.

It was nothing personal against MH. And it's nothing personal regarding CM or SC, they most likely didn't have anything to link them to this perp, and SC is linked to RAT. Realistically, they can't call on the FBI for every missing person or body found, there has to a link and there wasn't much to go on by the time MH disappeared. LE can probably request to have things run though the FBI database, but until they think they have the guy the FBI isn't going to take an active part. IMO

I understand people here are angry, but I don't understand the posts implying there's a racial component or because it was a UVA student that now the FBI is involved. Would you rather they were not involved at all? I don't get it. I'm glad they're doing everything they can to nail this guy to the wall.

 

[Hiandmighty]

,

I think Jesse picked a good spot, from his vantage. The body is skeletonized and Medical Examiners are on TV saying they would not expect to find any DNA from the perpetrator at this point.

The guy has to be smarter than what we are being told.

A lot can go wrong driving 11 miles with a live victim. People have died on that road in good conditions. And we know from other cases, girls can bolt into the dark of the night rather easily.

MOO

The Baton Rouge serial killer, Derrick Todd Lee, had a low IQ yet managed to kill several woman and elude authorities for a long time. To me it's not so much smarts as primal animalistic urges...