Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[Slapmyknee]

The bones, smell and bird thing has really been eating at me. Currently in the County South of us a search is going on for a BOL from July of this year. Hikers reported a foul smell and clothing off a trail. If this is who I think it is, the remains most likely have been at that location most of the summer. I cant get my head around why the remains are just now being reported. Unless this is an area that is not often traveled by summer fishermen and day hikers. Regarding the HG case, I also can't get my head around the lack of smell early on. ( the remains were dumped shortly after the murder) I have seen it stated that decomp occurs quickly in the area the remains were found. Why would not it have smelled shortly after the remains were left? Specially since it has been stated that the remains are bones. To address the neighbors remarking that is was so stinky they had to close the windows..... I guess it could be an animal or did LE not find what was smelling and they will find more.......idk, Some things are not adding up.

(if the remains) I meant IF..........

 

[ksj3]

And the remains were found exactly where LE were asking people to look....abandoned/vacant property, homes on the market, parks and outdoor settings, rural area, areas familiar to the individual in custody. Someone dropped the ball is my guess. I know that LE were inundated with tips, maybe this will now improve how tips are reviewed.

Yet, simultaneously, they were so overwhelmed with such terrain and were following tips, including buzzards, in various areas all at once. That's why they begged for the public's help, including real estate agents who were handling properties. The one that dropped the ball, unfortunately, is whomever owns this piece of property.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

And the remains were found exactly where LE were asking people to look....abandoned/vacant property, homes on the market, parks and outdoor settings, rural area, areas familiar to the individual in custody. Someone dropped the ball is my guess. I know that LE were inundated with tips, maybe this will now improve how tips are reviewed.

They received 4000 tips in the first 5 weeks...so that is about 114 tips a day. However, they also said that most tips came in during the first week or two of the case, so by the time the tips about the buzzards came in, they were likely receiving much less than 114 tips a day. I find it hard to believe they did not have multiple people whose job was to only go through tips. I don't believe they were overwhelmed, as they were even telling the media that tips were slowing down. I think they thought the buzzard tip was just a suggestion.

 

[Hiandmighty]

The bones, smell and bird thing has really been eating at me. Currently in the County South of us a search is going on for a BOL from July of this year. Hikers reported a foul smell and clothing off a trail. If this is who I think it is, the remains most likely have been at that location most of the summer. I cant get my head around why the remains are just now being reported. Unless this is an area that is not often traveled by summer fishermen and day hikers. Regarding the HG case, I also can't get my head around the lack of smell early on. ( the remains were dumped shortly after the murder) I have seen it stated that decomp occurs quickly in the area the remains were found. Why would not it have smelled shortly after the remains were left? Specially since it has been stated that the remains are bones. To address the neighbors remarking that is was so stinky they had to close the windows..... I guess it could be an animal or did LE not find what was smelling and they will find more.......idk, Some things are not adding up.

I honestly would disregard the comment about the smell from the neighbors. We go "mudding" and wet mud can smell HORRIBLE. Also, decaying leaves, etc. Plenty of things in nature smell similar to decomposition.

I think her body/the body/the bodies were far enough in the woods that no one smelled her/them.

 

[zapped]

Agreed. I know many people think JM is extremely calculated, but my impression of him is that he thinks he's very smart, but isn't. If you look at how LE in this country chronically mishandles sexual assault and violence against women, it's really not that hard to imagine he could have flown under the radar for this long. But I really don't think he is intelligent enough to elude LE forever. Just the fact that he approached HG in a place that it would be reasonable to assume would have surveillance says to me that he thinks he is invincible and won't be caught by relying on his usual MO. I am so hopeful that this is Hannah and we can bring this creep to justice.

JMO, of course.

BBM this ties into the hypotheses shared by quite a few people on WS that JLM is a narcissist.

Crime never pays.Each time you get away with it, the chances of getting caught the next time, goes up even further.

Im starting to wonder now if he wasnt addicted to that feeling of almost but not quite getting caught in the act and thats what caused him to be so brazen in picking up his victims from public areas with cameras, with MH's shirt being left in plain sight on a bush, and in his running from police.

One last thrill before the game is up for this incredibly sick individual?

If that theory is correct, then I wonder how LE can use it their advantage in this search?

 

[RSC]

Yet, simultaneously, they were so overwhelmed with such terrain and were following tips, including buzzards, in various areas all at once. That's why they begged for the public's help, including real estate agents who were handling properties. The one that dropped the ball, unfortunately, is whomever owns this piece of property.

I can't throw stones at the property owners, either. The family owns many properties in the area. For all we know, they checked them all. But they would not be trained investigators. If JM had buried the body/ies, average citizens may have had no hopes of finding them. Even the investigator said he was about to give up the search and go home, when he was compelled to search just a little bit longer.

 

[deugirtni]

But why not release the fact, if it is in fact known that HG's body has been ID'd? All other info can wait as long as LE likes, but I just don't think they would hold back that one piece.

Or there's something going on in the conversations with JM.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Especially since LE said on two occasions that tips were slowing down...It made me think they had gone through all of them. I guess the tips about the buzzards were not assigned a high priority, or were likely dismissed as merely being a suggestion.

Maybe LE should read at Websleuths so they'd understand about the buzzards.....:dunno:

 

[gliving]

Makes me wonder why the remains were not located much sooner. Two calls should have triggered a search, Imo.

From what the locals have said about the abundance of vultures, there may have been dozens of calls regarding bird activity.

 

[Le Singe]

If they think this area was a dumping ground, I assume they would have cadaver dogs searching the whole area, because there are years and years of accumulated layers of leaves. Not sure the kind of trees that are around there (just that there are lots lol) and I don't know how long it takes for leaves to dissolve, but I'm sure you get the picture.

I'm not so knowledgeable about search dogs could they also give them hannahs scent and then have them search for clothing or maybe phone?

 

[klily444]

Maybe LE should read at Websleuths so they'd understand about the buzzards.....:dunno:

I know. Sometimes I feel like this thread should be called Buzzards and Bones.

 

[zapped]

I honestly would disregard the comment about the smell from the neighbors. We go "mudding" and wet mud can smell HORRIBLE. Also, decaying leaves, etc. Plenty of things in nature smell similar to decomposition.

I think her body/the body/the bodies were far enough in the woods that no one smelled her/them.

Also this time of the year, with bow hunting season starting and regular hunting season about to start, deer go absolutely nuts! Its not uncommon to see them laying on the side of the road dead, after running into oncoming traffic.

Just last week, my son and I saw two on the shoulder of the interstate and they stunk like crazy.

 

[HereIsMeAgain]

Vultures can pick a body clean in as little as 5 hours as discovered when someone donated theirs to science. The vultures did scatter the bones then came back and scattered them further still

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2012/01/vultures-skeletonise-corpse-in.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

 

[human]

I don't know if there is a man still with the property, but it appears they own a lot of property and are not that young.

Since 3193 is maintained maybe they figured it was too out in the open.

I belive they own the property next door as well that McDaniel said his grandparents built. He said that one was vacant for years.

I wonder if JLM knew this history

 

[Ghostwheel]

I'm not so knowledgeable about search dogs could they also give them hannahs scent and then have them search for clothing or maybe phone?

There are phone sniffing dogs.
http://www.southerncoastk9.com/Cell-Phone-Detection-Dogs

 

[tlcya]

IME there are cadaver dogs who are specifically trained to seek out the scent of human remains and there are scent or tracking dogs whose training is geared to find specific scents after receiving the scent article belonging to someone specific. SARS folks have told me on other cases that the two types of training are very different and most dogs specialize in one or the other but not both.

 

[FindHG]

It seems this area where remains were placed, he may have wanted to come back to over and over again, that it meant something, offered something that fit his needs. After a night of his predatory actions, he'd want to wash, clean himself, the best place for that would be the Creek itself. He wouldn't want to drag back any unnecessary evidence beyond a victim. He may have kept some apparel, from what may be known. There are two branches of the lake that point toward the dry creek bed near OL Rd, at that time of night, the woods would be tougher than the edge of clear ground far from others' eyes and ears. My guess would be that he may have headed for the southern fork of the lake, to here

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9177939,-78.6048007,964m/data=!3m1!1e3

then work his way up past in the clear, to "tear drop hill" area, leave his stash, then come back another night.

hey, all

 

[jbowman55]

Also, as for the remains being so close to the road and it not being JM's MO. Is it possible he drove down Old Lynchburg with the intention of going to the park but saw the set up for the bike thing and kept driving passed then pulled into that empty property as an alternative? He might have been caught off guard and had to improvise at the last minute which would make his MO appear different. I had quoted something a while back, from an FBI seminar I think, that listed things most often found in serial crimes and one was the dump site being close to a road. Maybe the more females JM killed, the more he began to fit the profile?

BBM. I think this really makes a LOT of sense. Bells went off in my head when I read it, which is a sure sign of an "Aha" moment for me. The only thing that makes me hesitate is this: would it be possible for someone local to the area to NOT know about the biking event that was taking part at WCP that day? Not being a local myself, I have no idea whether the event was widely advertised on tv and by other media. Would he have known about it?

Has LE said anything about bringing divers in to search the water at WCP?

Is the perimeter of WCP enclosed by a fence?

 

[ksj3]

I'm not so knowledgeable about search dogs could they also give them hannahs scent and then have them search for clothing or maybe phone?

There are dogs specifically trained to find cell phones. They used them in the RAT investigation and might use them here.

Hannah's scent, unfortunately, would be long gone. They'd need Human Remains Detection dogs at this point to find bodies.

Sarx - Come back!

 

[Heroine]

Matthew is accused of abducting and planning to sexually assault Hannah Graham, a University of Virginia sophomore who has been missing for more than a month. (Human remains found by searchers over the weekend haven't yet been identified.) This isn’t the first time Matthew has been suspected of sexual assault -- it’s the fourth, authorities said. Yet this is the first time he’s been held behind bars.

If a college student is disciplined by a school for sexual assault, the rapist can skip the punishment by transferring to a new university without anyone ever knowing.

The offense won’t necessarily show up on a transcript. And administrators can simply note in a student’s file that he or she faced disciplinary action without recording actual details. What's more, schools that accept transfer students aren't required to circle back to a previous school to check records. Even if they do, full disclosure isn’t required, and the schools never have to inform the police.

Experts and sex attack survivors say this policy gap allows serial predators to commit new offenses somewhere else, and they want the loophole snapped shut.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/23/college-rape-transfer_n_6030770.html?utm_hp_ref=college
bbm