Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Skigirl]

I did not realize that the lyrics were not known by all until I read about the protests. The RS article published them as if they were set in stone and sung regularly, or that was my assumption

I wonder, MJ, did you know that they existed? I thought I read something that said frat houses were singing the sexually violent lyrics when people were partying in the streets or something. Very honestly, had I heard them in a crowd I probably would not have listened closely enough to realize what they were actually saying, because who says stuff like that? Who thinks like that? People like JLM, of course, but not the nice guy that grew up next door, best friends with your brother.
I was in college so long ago that, if women were being raped, I never heard about it. When I returned to grad school it was at NYU where only 7% are involved in Greek life. I just checked the stats and for 2013, only nine rapes were reported in buildings designated as dorms or academic. (NYC actually has a low incidence of rape).

So this is new information for me and I am left thinking how brave all of you young women are, to attend college at all.:takeabow:

I think one of the points of the article is that college campuses can contribute to violent crimes against women by making the campus seem safer than it really is, leading to a false sense of security that might make a 19-year-old woman feel it was safe for her to party-hop alone. For instance, of 38 crimes that were brought to attention of the Dean who is responsible for Title 9, 29 of them disappeared without a trace once the student had discussed the incident with the Dean -- a representative of the school. Had some fraction of those been reported to police (and hence, included in campus crime statistics) instead of disappearing into the ether, perhaps there would be greater awareness of the potential for crime making it more likely women would stick to a buddy system when attending parties and getting from place to place at night.

ETA: I thought the article was especially relevant because it alleges widespread use of alcohol and drugs at parties with the intent to render women more sexually compliant. To the extent that is true, it could suggest that HG could have been drugged before she left the corner, but that she left whatever party she was attending before the person who intended to drug her had a chance to act, making her more vulnerable to a predator, like JM.

 

[Conductor71]

IMO....I don't think that JLM's actions with HG, MH or Fairfax Rape/Attempted Murder Victim had anything at all to do with UVa and the Fraternity culture there. While it gives us something to ponder/discuss (as we have relatively no new info re: HG case), I just don't see it being related at all and am wondering if we need a "Uva Frat Culture" separate thread? Just askin' !

I think it may have a connection IF HG was drugged at a party prior to encountering JM on DM. The picture that has been painted is that JM plied Hannah with even more alcohol with the intent to abduct and defile her; the only evidence so far is conflicting witness testimony and conjecture. There is no video of them inside together or of HG drinking with JM. That makes things more problematic in proving the case IMO.

Also, I think that some sort of toxicology report is requisite to any case where a person is accused of taking advantage of someone based on mental capacity. If she had a slight blood alcohol level when she walked off with him it makes a big difference at this point unless other hard evidence surfaces. Just look at how we all disagree based on the video surveillance.

Not defending JM but trying to keep an objective presumed innocent viewpoint.

 

[whonos]

I don't believe at this juncture that JLM went to frat parties or "fraternized" with many UVa students to be honest.

MOO[/QUOTE]

Thanks because that was something I wondered about, if he attended any of the parties. I would think that he might want to attend, and might have been part of the crowd outside. If he felt excluded it might have added to his frustration. I mean, it sounds like the kind of situation that attracted him, if the frat parties were as wild as portrayed, with rape cover-ups and so on.
But it does sound like the RS article elaborated somewhat, so maybe my vision is skewed.

 

[MJPeony]

I don't believe at this juncture that JLM went to frat parties or "fraternized" with many UVa students to be honest.

MOO

Thanks because that was something I wondered about, if he attended any of the parties. I would think that he might want to attend, and might have been part of the crowd outside. If he felt excluded it might have added to his frustration. I mean, it sounds like the kind of situation that attracted him, if the frat parties were as wild as portrayed, with rape cover-ups and so on.
But it does sound like the RS article elaborated somewhat, so maybe my vision is skewed.

I don't think JLM was ever in a frat party at UVa. Or if he was, it was a one-time accidental fluke. If you aren't in a fraternity there, it's pretty weird for a guy to go traipsing about at frat parties on Rugby road. From my experience with my guy friends there, they felt stupid and wimpy essentially crashing other guys' parties. Not to mention, JLM wasn't even a student. That would have been apparent after about 5 seconds to anyone. He'd have stuck out like a sore thumb and I seriously doubt he'd ever have been able to set foot inside of one. JMO.

 

[MJPeony]

I think one of the points of the article is that college campuses can contribute to violent crimes against women by making the campus seem safer than it really is, leading to a false sense of security that might make a 19-year-old woman feel it was safe for her to party-hop alone. For instance, of 38 crimes that were brought to attention of the Dean who is responsible for Title 9, 29 of them disappeared without a trace once the student had discussed the incident with the Dean -- a representative of the school. Had some fraction of those been reported to police (and hence, included in campus crime statistics) instead of disappearing into the ether, perhaps there would be greater awareness of the potential for crime making it more likely women would stick to a buddy system when attending parties and getting from place to place at night.

ETA: I thought the article was especially relevant because it alleges widespread use of alcohol and drugs at parties with the intent to render women more sexually compliant. To the extent that is true, it could suggest that HG could have been drugged before she left the corner, but that she left whatever party she was attending before the person who intended to drug her had a chance to act, making her more vulnerable to a predator, like JM.

I see what you're saying, but I don't fully agree. Even if HG was drugged before she left the Corner/whatever party she was attending, JLM did what he did unilaterally. Also, MH wasn't hanging around in the UVa party culture prior to her disappearance from JPJA. She had come from her own house, and was with her VA Tech friends. I bring her up b/c it was JLM who was responsible for that as well.

I just don't think there is much unique about UVa party culture that could be said to have "contributed" to the demise of HG and MH (I know you didn't say "contribute"- that's my word) any more than anywhere else. IMO, it is 100% JLM, no matter what happened ahead of his encountering either of them. Sure, in theory, if a college campus is concealing a culture where women are being drugged and set-up for sexual abuse and rape, then there are serious problems with that in and of itself. But it's hard for me the think that the current female student population there isn't aware of the risks out there- and specifically there in Cville. Again, JLM is the one, indirectly, responsible for starting the Help Save the Next Girl, etc. MH case has been incredibly well covered on the campus there. No way could any female not know about that general situation and the fact the guy was never caught (until now...). I don't see how the UVa Administration would have made girls think it was safe to roam the streets alone- alleged college/fraternity rape coverups or not. JLM is a beast of his own making and his own kind. Unrelated IMO.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I see what you're saying, but I don't fully agree. Even if HG was drugged before she left the Corner/whatever party she was attending, JLM did what he did unilaterally. Also, MH wasn't hanging around in the UVa party culture prior to her disappearance from JPJA. She had come from her own house, and was with her VA Tech friends. I bring her up b/c it was JLM who was responsible for that as well.

I just don't think there is much unique about UVa party culture that could be said to have "contributed" to the demise of HG and MH (I know you didn't say "contribute"- that's my word) any more than anywhere else. IMO, it is 100% JLM, no matter what happened ahead of his encountering either of them. Sure, in theory, if a college campus is concealing a culture where women are being drugged and set-up for sexual abuse and rape, then there are serious problems with that in and of itself. But it's hard for me the think that the current female student population there isn't aware of the risks out there- and specifically there in Cville. Again, JLM is the one, indirectly, responsible for starting the Help Save the Next Girl, etc. MH case has been incredibly well covered on the campus there. No way could any female not know about that general situation and the fact the guy was never caught (until now...). I don't see how the UVa Administration would have made girls think it was safe to roam the streets alone- alleged college/fraternity rape coverups or not. JLM is a beast of his own making and his own kind. Unrelated IMO.

I don't know...I think that if someone drugged HG at a frat party and she was wandering around town disoriented and lost as a result of it, the one/ones who drugged her need to be held accountable for their participation in her demise. Possibly they got what they wanted from her before she left, or maybe not--but they ultimately set her up for something (if it happened that way). I don't think HG felt it was safe to walk the streets alone, I think she was too incoherent to do anything about it--maybe she set herself up for that, but maybe she didn't.

 

[MJPeony]

I don't know...I think that if someone drugged HG at a frat party and she was wandering around town disoriented and lost as a result of it, the one/ones who drugged her need to be held accountable for their participation in her demise. Possibly they got what they wanted from her before she left, or maybe not--but they ultimately set her up for something (if it happened that way). I don't think HG felt it was safe to walk the streets alone, I think she was too incoherent to do anything about it--maybe she set herself up for that, but maybe she didn't.

If someone drugged HG at a frat party, I definitely think they should be held accountable in some way for drugging someone unwittingly. It's a blurred range of accountability if said drugging begat disorientation, begat walking alone, begat an easy target for JLM. Same can be said for if Tempo served HG alcohol I think (in terms of where does one place the blame).

But JLM abducts, rapes, and murders people on his own. All I'm saying is that I don't believe there is a chronic culture at UVa such that people are habitually drugging women at frat parties to prep for sexual violence whereby the administration covers it up to create a false sense of security in the entire town of C-ville which would hold the University responsible for HG's abduction, rape, and murder. Or for MH's. The perp being someone who is not, and was never, a student. And who was almost certainly (IMO) never associated with the UVa greek party scene.

Whether or not UVa and it's administration has handled past rape accusations appropriately, or has tried to protect an image of some sort for some reason, is an entirely different story IMO. (And I won't get into that topic as I only know what I've personally experienced myself and from friends and, like most of us, don't have enough inside information).

It's hard, having grown up in Cville and having been a student at UVa, to see the town and the university being dragged through the mud a bit right now. I pretty much blame it on JLM. Of course, any of these male college students who have done something like what has been alleged in RS make me ill, and they should bear full weight of fault for those wrongdoings. But the timing of the article and the way it was written, in my opinion, tries to draw parallels and cause/effect around UVa's party scene and the murders of MH and HG. Article doesn't state it explicitly, but it doesn't have to IMO. I was aware that JLM hurt many people through his killing escapades- his victims, their families and friends, his family and friends, etc. It's just additionally sad to me that he's now somehow gotten tangentially associated with a University I am proud to have graduated from. And while JLM may have lived in C-ville, JLM "does not a bad city make". He's a monster. They exist everywhere.
MOO

Anyway. I'm done I think with commenting on this topic. Thanks to all for the opportunity to share my opinions on it.

 

[Enni]

If someone drugged HG at a frat party, I definitely think they should be held accountable in some way for drugging someone unwittingly. It's a blurred range of accountability if said drugging begat disorientation, begat walking alone, begat an easy target for JLM. Same can be said for if Tempo served HG alcohol I think (in terms of where does one place the blame).

But JLM abducts, rapes, and murders people on his own. All I'm saying is that I don't believe there is a chronic culture at UVa such that people are habitually drugging women at frat parties to prep for sexual violence whereby the administration covers it up to create a false sense of security in the entire town of C-ville which would hold the University responsible for HG's abduction, rape, and murder. Or for MH's. The perp being someone who is not, and was never, a student. And who was almost certainly (IMO) never associated with the UVa greek party scene.

Whether or not UVa and it's administration has handled past rape accusations appropriately, or has tried to protect an image of some sort for some reason, is an entirely different story IMO. (And I won't get into that topic as I only know what I've personally experienced myself and from friends and, like most of us, don't have enough inside information).

It's hard, having grown up in Cville and having been a student at UVa, to see the town and the university being dragged through the mud a bit right now. I pretty much blame it on JLM. Of course, any of these male college students who have done something like what has been alleged in RS make me ill, and they should bear full weight of fault for those wrongdoings. But the timing of the article and the way it was written, in my opinion, tries to draw parallels and cause/effect around UVa's party scene and the murders of MH and HG. Article doesn't state it explicitly, but it doesn't have to IMO. I was aware that JLM hurt many people through his killing escapades- his victims, their families and friends, his family and friends, etc. It's just additionally sad to me that he's now somehow gotten tangentially associated with a University I am proud to have graduated from. And while JLM may have lived in C-ville, JLM "does not a bad city make". He's a monster. They exist everywhere.
MOO

Anyway. I'm done I think with commenting on this topic. Thanks to all for the opportunity to share my opinions on it.

BBM. IMO, it's possible that the perp could have been tangentially involved with the frat scene as a marijuana (and / or other drugs) dealer. If so, this will undoubtedly come out through some phone or other record (s) / witness(es.) JLM's boss at Access Taxi had prior convictions as a major drug dealer, and JLM's taxi reportedly had the sticker "Rehab is for quitters" on it, so it's not completely outside the realm of possibility, again JMO...

I don't think most people will see any of these problems as being unique to UVA or C'ville. However, the RS article does allege a very troubling pattern in the handling of sexual assault cases, over many decades, by UVA admin. and students. When criminal activity is routinely swept under the carpet in a misguided effort to spare an institution's reputation, it's inevitable that those chickens will come home to roost. Of course, this is a very widespread problem at many — too many! — universities, including the most prestigious Ivies. But it needs to be stopped, and this case may have helped open the floodgates. Hopefully some good can come of it. UVA can restore its image by leading the way in bringing about much-needed reforms in how sexual assaults are handled on campuses across the nation, IMO — can't help but think that things would have gone very differently for JLM if Liberty and CNU had aggressively pursued those early cases, for example. I imagine there will be increased surveillance cameras and policing on the Downtown Mall, as well. Seems long overdue.

 

[4MYGUYS]

I think one of the points of the article is that college campuses can contribute to violent crimes against women by making the campus seem safer than it really is, leading to a false sense of security that might make a 19-year-old woman feel it was safe for her to party-hop alone. For instance, of 38 crimes that were brought to attention of the Dean who is responsible for Title 9, 29 of them disappeared without a trace once the student had discussed the incident with the Dean -- a representative of the school. Had some fraction of those been reported to police (and hence, included in campus crime statistics) instead of disappearing into the ether, perhaps there would be greater awareness of the potential for crime making it more likely women would stick to a buddy system when attending parties and getting from place to place at night.

ETA: I thought the article was especially relevant because it alleges widespread use of alcohol and drugs at parties with the intent to render women more sexually compliant. To the extent that is true, it could suggest that HG could have been drugged before she left the corner, but that she left whatever party she was attending before the person who intended to drug her had a chance to act, making her more vulnerable to a predator, like JM.

ITA, and to the effect that it may have had on JLM when he was 17-18- and on up, and attending school. His mother was said to move to keep him away from gangs, she knew what was going on. I find it very possible that he was involved in the rape scene at a frat or elsewhere when he was younger, and even more possible that he was more recently involved tangentially through his cab driver friend who was involved in marijuana distribution.
And once again I feel for all of the parents of all of these victims, who unwittingly sent and probably paid big bucks to put their kids at such high risk at UVA, which is in Charlottesville. It's so hard to go on, without going off topic, in reference to the long standing problems of sexual assault and frat abuses at UVA and how significantly they may have fed into the attraction of serial rapists who were drawn to this area or raised in the area, both students and non students. JMHO

 

[MJPeony]

ITA, and to the effect that it may have had on JLM when he was 17-18- and on up, and attending school. His mother was said to move to keep him away from gangs, she knew what was going on. I find it very possible that he was involved in the rape scene at a frat or elsewhere when he was younger, and even more possible that he was more recently involved tangentially through his cab driver friend who was involved in marijuana distribution.
And once again I feel for all of the parents of all of these victims, who unwittingly sent and probably paid big bucks to put their kids at such high risk at UVA, which is in Charlottesville. It's so hard to go on, without going off topic, in reference to the long standing problems of sexual assault and frat abuses at UVA and how significantly they may have fed into the attraction of serial rapists who were drawn to this area or raised in the area, both students and non students. JMHO

BBM

Argh...I said I was done with personally commenting on this topic, but can't let this stand

4MYGUYS, I'd need to see a source for your comment here. Nowhere have I read that JM's mom "knew what was going on" and moved him to keep him out of gangs. She was quoted at one point as saying she moved JM b/c she wanted to keep him out of trouble (I don't have time to find the link again right now), but never have I read stated what you've just written were her intentions. Gangs were merely speculated on here at some point, but nothing has been backed up. Additionally, if you think the gang culture is so horrendous in Cville, you might want to poke around other cities in the US... I think you'd find the C-ville gang scene (while in existence for sure) is little league comparatively. I think to claim that his mother "knew what was going on" is incredibly misleading and skewed, and only ends up trying to attach JLM's actions to some perceived Cville and UVa rape and murder haven.

Also, broad sweeping comments such as "who unwittingly sent and probably paid big bucks to put their kids at such high risk at UVA, which is in Charlottesville" are contributing, IMO, to a simplistic, unproductive, and uninformed opinion on the city and the university. Taking a breath and slowing down to understand what might be going on and how it can change, as opposed to immediately drawing a line from frat party alleged rapes to murders by JLM, is going to get the best positive change imo.

I'd also be interested in who you are talking about when you say "how significantly they may have fed into the attraction of serial rapists who were drawn to this area or raised in the area". While I'm aware there are quite a few "Route 29" missing persons cases since something like the 1970's- which go all the way up to Northern Virginia- I'm not familiar with this mass of serial rapists you say are coming from, or are attacking in Charlottesville.

Enni- thanks for your thoughtful reply above. While I don't see exactly eye to eye on all of it, I do agree with many of your thoughts. It is possible, I agree, that JLM could be a drug dealer/supplier. And it's certainly possible he would have that second-hand connection to parties. I also think that had CNU and Liberty handled his case(s) differently, we'd be seeing a potentially very different situation right now for HG. You said "I don't think most people will see any of these problems as being unique to UVA or C'ville" but unfortunately I think people are doing exactly that. At this point I can only hope that, as you said, maybe UVa can lead change- b/c I am 100% certain in my own mind that whatever problems they may have, they aren't the only ones by far.

Ok, I have to move on now- for reals. Too close to home and I'm getting too emotionally upset reading about what I see as a misplaced witch hunt for the actions of JLM. I'll stick to commenting on the other topics :run:

All MOO

 

[4MYGUYS]

MJPeony, MY opinion is that there is no difference between what went on for many many years at some of the frats at UVA and gang activity, and it is POSSIBLE and in my opinion, probable that JLM may have been involved in this as a young adult and college student.
I do feel sorry for the families that were not aware of how significant the problems of sexual assault are at UVA, putting UVA in the top 12 that the government is investigating now for their improper handling of sexual "misconduct". I know many parents who have paid well over $200,000 (this is big bucks to me) to send their adolescents and young adults to UVA and were definintely NOT aware how UVA was handling "sexual misconduct" and how prevalent it is compared to other schools. Again this is my opinion.
As for serial rapists, JLM, Nathan Antonio Washington, Randy Allen Taylor, Barker, Kitze, and IMO, there will be many hopefully brought to justice from the frats.
JMHO, But if a frat is known to harbor rapists, such as are in the news now,, potential rapists would certainly find that a great frat to join, & IMO, that has happened. IMO. We shall see.
As for JM's mother moving him out of C'ville proper, I do not have a link that specifically cites this as due to gang activity, and so perhaps it was not for gang related problems, you may be correct. JMHO
This is off topic so, I too, will not continue with this line, and mods feel free to remove.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I wonder if she was giving the drug "Molly" at the party. I heard this drug makes people super friendly with a kick of energy. This would explain her motive for quickly walking alone to the next party and also explain why she went to a bar with JLM (a guy she didnt know).

 

[themom]

Thinking of HG and her family today. I cannot imagine the pain of a first holiday without your child. Especially because a senseless, violent murder my thanksgiving prayers are with Sue and John Graham, and HGs brother.

 

[CoolJ]

BBM

Argh...I said I was done with personally commenting on this topic, but can't let this stand

4MYGUYS, I'd need to see a source for your comment here. Nowhere have I read that JM's mom "knew what was going on" and moved him to keep him out of gangs. She was quoted at one point as saying she moved JM b/c she wanted to keep him out of trouble (I don't have time to find the link again right now), but never have I read stated what you've just written were her intentions. Gangs were merely speculated on here at some point, but nothing has been backed up. Additionally, if you think the gang culture is so horrendous in Cville, you might want to poke around other cities in the US... I think you'd find the C-ville gang scene (while in existence for sure) is little league comparatively. I think to claim that his mother "knew what was going on" is incredibly misleading and skewed, and only ends up trying to attach JLM's actions to some perceived Cville and UVa rape and murder haven.

Also, broad sweeping comments such as "who unwittingly sent and probably paid big bucks to put their kids at such high risk at UVA, which is in Charlottesville" are contributing, IMO, to a simplistic, unproductive, and uninformed opinion on the city and the university. Taking a breath and slowing down to understand what might be going on and how it can change, as opposed to immediately drawing a line from frat party alleged rapes to murders by JLM, is going to get the best positive change imo.

I'd also be interested in who you are talking about when you say "how significantly they may have fed into the attraction of serial rapists who were drawn to this area or raised in the area". While I'm aware there are quite a few "Route 29" missing persons cases since something like the 1970's- which go all the way up to Northern Virginia- I'm not familiar with this mass of serial rapists you say are coming from, or are attacking in Charlottesville.

Enni- thanks for your thoughtful reply above. While I don't see exactly eye to eye on all of it, I do agree with many of your thoughts. It is possible, I agree, that JLM could be a drug dealer/supplier. And it's certainly possible he would have that second-hand connection to parties. I also think that had CNU and Liberty handled his case(s) differently, we'd be seeing a potentially very different situation right now for HG. You said "I don't think most people will see any of these problems as being unique to UVA or C'ville" but unfortunately I think people are doing exactly that. At this point I can only hope that, as you said, maybe UVa can lead change- b/c I am 100% certain in my own mind that whatever problems they may have, they aren't the only ones by far.

Ok, I have to move on now- for reals. Too close to home and I'm getting too emotionally upset reading about what I see as a misplaced witch hunt for the actions of JLM. I'll stick to commenting on the other topics :run:

All MOO

Here is a quote on the gang activity:
“She wanted to try to keep Jesse out of the city away from gang activity — if there was any in the city. She was just trying to make it safe for her son,” said neighbor Cliff Hunt.

http://wtvr.com/2014/10/20/hannah-graham-suspect-lived-near-where-human-remains-were-discovered/

 

[4 Free Speech]

Since Hannah was a student at UVA I thought this was pertinent. I was in shock when I saw this UVA mural. Your thoughts?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ng_stone_not_surprising_to_one_associate.html



Published 11.25.14

The UVA Gang Rape Allegations Are Awful, Horrifying, and Not Shocking at All

A very expensive mural called "The Student's Progress" covers the entire foyer and stairwell of Old Cabell Hall, which is also the University’s premier auditorium and the favored space for visiting dignitaries. The mural depicts, among other scenes of daily life at the University of Virginia, a male faculty member standing on a porch and tossing a mostly naked student her bra as his beleaguered wife comes up the stairs. My students and I have pointed out that wildly inappropriate section of the mural to faculty, administrators, students, parents, and donors, but so far, no one has been particularly horrified. The mural is proudly displayed and is prominently featured on UVA tours.

 

[EmmaRose]

Since Hannah was a student at UVA I thought this was pertinent. I was in shock when I saw this UVA mural. Your thoughts?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ng_stone_not_surprising_to_one_associate.html

View attachment 64591

Published 11.25.14

The UVA Gang Rape Allegations Are Awful, Horrifying, and Not Shocking at All

A very expensive mural called "The Student's Progress" covers the entire foyer and stairwell of Old Cabell Hall, which is also the University’s premier auditorium and the favored space for visiting dignitaries. The mural depicts, among other scenes of daily life at the University of Virginia, a male faculty member standing on a porch and tossing a mostly naked student her bra as his beleaguered wife comes up the stairs. My students and I have pointed out that wildly inappropriate section of the mural to faculty, administrators, students, parents, and donors, but so far, no one has been particularly horrified. The mural is proudly displayed and is prominently featured on UVA tours.

This mural is outrageous. It says it all.

 

[grammy56]

IMHO Hannah was on the snowboarding team and soccor player she was in excellent health. Any alcohol her body would through it off pretty fast. After she walked all the way to the mall anyway. When she passes back and forth in front of the shell station, I think she knew she was lost and wasn't sure which way to go. So she ended up at the mall trying to find her way back. The whole time at the mall she was in a hurry and scared. Last seen t 1:08. She could have very well have made it to where her last text said she was...Police said friends and family contacted them Sunday afternoon after last hearing from Graham about 1:30 a.m. Saturday.

That’s when she sent a text message to a friend saying she was lost walking home from a party near 14th and Wertland.

Soccor players run 8 or more miles a day . Poor Hannah could easily ran 2 miles in 23 minutes probley faster. She was a tall girl in excellent shape and I bet she fought for her life. There were two other rapes on Wertland street that night. Just saying!

 

[grammy56]

From Coys article wonder who the other women with the crop top sitting there all night this witness could be confused, after sitting in a bar all night I would need help waking too.

From Coy...“It’s possible some people were confused,” Gallagher says. “Because most of the night there was a woman here with friends, sitting at the end of the bar, wearing a sequined crop top. But it wasn’t Hannah. It was a woman a few years older than Hannah, and she was shorter and chubbier. My guess is some people remember seeing that other woman here, and because they were dressed similarly, maybe they think that was Hannah. I’ve asked around. I haven’t talked to anyone who was here that night who remembers seeing Hannah inside drinking.”

 

[grammy56]

I saw a picture of LJ at the bar where he was harassing women. Now I can't find it. If that was the same night his shirt doesn't match the video. I hope someone can find this so I don't spend hours looking. Thanks to ALL I am enjoying this site with smart and mature people.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Pretty sure that was from Coy Barefoot's blog, but I don't have a link handy.

Once you know what the shirt looked like, you can tell it's the same shirt on the video, but due to the black/white/gray of the recording the contrast is much less visible.

EDIT: I googled and got lucky with the first result! Pic is on this page:
http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/