Hannah's Journey on 09/13

[Conductor71]

I'm thinking now that it is at this very point that she got lost (rather than earlier when leaving the Corner party). Did she leave McGrady's for home, get disoriented/turned around, went back to McGrady's thinking her friends would still be there but they weren't? Was she looking for her friends' car when she went off camera in the surveillance video? She saw it wasn't there, swung by the door to check with the bouncer? When she realized they had left, she headed back down the road--again, the wrong way. It makes a lot more sense that she was lost for that short period of time--because she turned the wrong way at McGrady's--I just think it's too unreasonable to believe she was lost after leaving the party at the Corner, wandering for so long without getting help. It also may explain why she was visibly distressed at the DTM--because she had just realized how lost she was and didn't know how she would get back at that hour of the night.

Interesting...but I still think McGrady's is a real source of confusion for her because it was at this point she is realizing she is lost. Earlier in the evening she ate with ski club friends at the Fig Bistro and Bar. This was located near the Corner on Main at 14th St. This is near the party area. I think this place served as point of reference for her and shows how she became lost prior to McGrady's. Recall that she texted her friends that she was lost at 14th and Wertland? That is just a block North of where she had been dining and dancing. Further, LE reports her as thinking Preston was Main St. It explains how she might have left a party, took 10th St, but headed North to Preston when she really wanted Main St. I am thinking the Fig was either a rendez-vous point or at least a landmark for finding her way that night. This could explain why she is so thrown off by the Pub and walks the area. She was expecting to see the Bistro to re-orient herself, so stumbling onto McGrady's was a WTH moment.

Here is an excerpt that supports this: Graham had dinner with friends at a Corner restaurant, then left on her own and headed to two separate house parties at off campus student residences, where police say, she drank alcohol that may have impaired her judgment.

Video confirms missing UVA student...

I think she did; however, either use her GPS or someone gave her step by step directions onto the DM. It is also reported in the same article that HG is seen at the Crossing low income housing building at Preston and 4th. Pretty sure this was discussed, but I think it shows she had to have guidance on where to cross what looks like a very pedestrian unfriendly crossing across that huge BUS250 belt. She knew to head South on 4th from Preston and cross through a parking area (she was also placed at Notch Computers) and emerge right onto Market St taking 2nd past Fellini's right onto the Mall. How could she have been so out of it to not be able to self correct near where she lived but follow these very specific directions onto the DM. She had to have had gotten her bearings enough to use her GPS, or someone texted her explicit directions, the question is who did? Sorry I can't provide a map; never can get Google too cooperate with me on marking them up

 

[Conductor71]

One other thing came to light for me too. I have been assuming all this time that the Ski club friends were with HG later that night; that she was intending to meet up with them, and that she was texting them for directions. Now I think that is not so. Looking at what Longo said:

Graham had dinner with friends at a Corner restaurant, then left on her own and headed to two separate house parties at off campus student residences, where police say, she drank...

This means to me that she dined and danced with her ski club friends, but they went their separate ways for the evening after this. It explains why no one was concerned that she never showed up for the party that we assumed she was later meeting them at. It also explains why no one was concerned until 4:30 pm the next day that to report her missing, doesn't it?

This has me wondering just who she was texting for directions and if they didn't lead her to McGrady's and the mall intentionally. I get the feeling that she did not know the people she was partying with very well and obviously were in a different social circle than her closer ski club friends.

This is sorta 0T but I am a shoe nut. Did anyone notice how HG chose sneakers to wear? They really stick out to me as odd given her outfit. Could it be that she chose them because she anticipated a lot of walking?

 

[MJPeony]

....

This is sorta 0T but I am a shoe nut. Did anyone notice how HG chose sneakers to wear? They really stick out to me as odd given her outfit. Could it be that she chose them because she anticipated a lot of walking?

snipped for space

re: the shoes. I first thought how strange they were as well, but then remembered that the kind of shoe she appears to be wearing is in style right now. Converse. (or similar brand). Girls are wearing them with anything.

 

[SolVol]

Drunk women on the street any time of day are definitely a target for both rapists and traffickers as this YouTube video (experiment) shows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvq6pH5Rheg#t=167

Hat Tip - #HannahGraham

Might be a great Sting Operation tactic for LE.

 

[Elisaa444]

One other thing came to light for me too. I have been assuming all this time that the Ski club friends were with HG later that night; that she was intending to meet up with them, and that she was texting them for directions. Now I think that is not so. Looking at what Longo said:

Graham had dinner with friends at a Corner restaurant, then left on her own and headed to two separate house parties at off campus student residences, where police say, she drank...

This means to me that she dined and danced with her ski club friends, but they went their separate ways for the evening after this. It explains why no one was concerned that she never showed up for the party that we assumed she was later meeting them at. It also explains why no one was concerned until 4:30 pm the next day that to report her missing, doesn't it?

This has me wondering just who she was texting for directions and if they didn't lead her to McGrady's and the mall intentionally. I get the feeling that she did not know the people she was partying with very well and obviously were in a different social circle than her closer ski club friends.

This is sorta 0T but I am a shoe nut. Did anyone notice how HG chose sneakers to wear? They really stick out to me as odd given her outfit. Could it be that she chose them because she anticipated a lot of walking?

I noticed this right away. I am a shoe nut too. I know all people are different with their 'style' and how they dress. When I saw her outfit the shoes stuck out to me big time...means nothing of course...just wanted to let you know that her shoe choice stuck out to me as well.

 

[ILOKAL]

I noticed this right away. I am a shoe nut too. I know all people are different with their 'style' and how they dress. When I saw her outfit the shoes stuck out to me big time...means nothing of course...just wanted to let you know that her shoe choice stuck out to me as well.

Actually, I thought the shoes were perfect for her outfit. They are quite popular. Also, I doubt Hannah wore shoes with a substantial heel since she was so tall. JMO. She was a lovely young lady.

 

[AnnaGrace]

I've thought all along that her attire that night spoke of who she was. Athletic, sporty and energetic. I think the flashy top was to dress it up a little for the parties.

 

[Elisaa444]

Actually, I thought the shoes were perfect for her outfit. They are quite popular. Also, I doubt Hannah wore shoes with a substantial heel since she was so tall. JMO. She was a lovely young lady.

I wasn't giving an opinion regarding if I thought her 'shoes were perfect for that outfit.' I personally don't judge people regarding what they choose to wear because we are all different. Conductor71 asked if anyone noticed her choice in shoes and I replied that yes, her shoes did stick out to me. That doesn't mean it was in a negative way. Btw, I'm 5'10 and I do wear heels and every other kind of shoe. Yes, Hannah was a very lovely lady and she is very, very missed.

 

[ILOKAL]

I wasn't giving an opinion regarding if I thought her 'shoes were perfect for that outfit.' I personally don't judge people regarding what they choose to wear because we are all different. Conductor71 asked if anyone noticed her choice in shoes and I replied that yes, her shoes did stick out to me. That doesn't mean it was in a negative way. Btw, I'm 5'10 and I do wear heels and every other kind of shoe. Yes, Hannah was a very lovely lady and she is very, very missed.

Hmmm, I understood your response to Conductor71 and my response was that I thought they were perfect for her outfit. Nothing more - nothing less.

 

[RSC]

I think these are all actors, men included. So not much of an experiment.

And, FWIW, I used to party much more than I should have, and never once did I get "targeted."

Drunk women on the street any time of day are definitely a target for both rapists and traffickers as this YouTube video (experiment) shows:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvq6pH5Rheg#t=167

Hat Tip - #HannahGraham

Might be a great Sting Operation tactic for LE.

 

[AnnaGrace]

Interesting...but I still think McGrady's is a real source of confusion for her because it was at this point she is realizing she is lost. Earlier in the evening she ate with ski club friends at the Fig Bistro and Bar. This was located near the Corner on Main at 14th St. This is near the party area. I think this place served as point of reference for her and shows how she became lost prior to McGrady's. Recall that she texted her friends that she was lost at 14th and Wertland? That is just a block North of where she had been dining and dancing. Further, LE reports her as thinking Preston was Main St. It explains how she might have left a party, took 10th St, but headed North to Preston when she really wanted Main St. I am thinking the Fig was either a rendez-vous point or at least a landmark for finding her way that night. This could explain why she is so thrown off by the Pub and walks the area. She was expecting to see the Bistro to re-orient herself, so stumbling onto McGrady's was a WTH moment.

Here is an excerpt that supports this: Graham had dinner with friends at a Corner restaurant, then left on her own and headed to two separate house parties at off campus student residences, where police say, she drank alcohol that may have impaired her judgment.

Video confirms missing UVA student...

I think she did; however, either use her GPS or someone gave her step by step directions onto the DM. It is also reported in the same article that HG is seen at the Crossing low income housing building at Preston and 4th. Pretty sure this was discussed, but I think it shows she had to have guidance on where to cross what looks like a very pedestrian unfriendly crossing across that huge BUS250 belt. She knew to head South on 4th from Preston and cross through a parking area (she was also placed at Notch Computers) and emerge right onto Market St taking 2nd past Fellini's right onto the Mall. How could she have been so out of it to not be able to self correct near where she lived but follow these very specific directions onto the DM. She had to have had gotten her bearings enough to use her GPS, or someone texted her explicit directions, the question is who did? Sorry I can't provide a map; never can get Google too cooperate with me on marking them up

You bring out some very good points Conductor and I agree. IMO she got turned around or confused when she left the third party. I can't remember the name of the complex, but I believe when she left there, she headed the wrong way. I think she was already lost when she got to McGrady's, and was trying to see if someone she was friends with was there. I think when she realized she was at the DM, she thought she may possibly see someone she knew. I don't think she knew JM. He saw her and realized she was in a predicament that he could take advantage of, which seems to be part of his MO.

 

[slowpoke]

Something about Hannah's phone and supposed last text has been bothering me and I just can't quite figure it it out:

If she did send the text re: 14th and Wertland at or around 1:06 am, why do we never see her phone in her hands in any of the CCTV footage on the DTM? I realize it could just be poor timing but it seems odd to me. Personally, if I've text that I'm lost and need someone to come find me, I'm going to have that phone in my hands at ALL times. Not to mention that neither a specific text mentioning being "lost" nor "almost" at 14th and Wertland would make any sense as she would have been on or within view of the DTM.

I believe someone mentioned earlier in one of the threads that they thought she might have lost her phone earlier and whomever found it text to say it was "lost" (recovered) at 14th and Wertland. That doesn't make sense to me for two reasons. One, if it was found I would think it would have been turned in to LE immediately. Especially after Hannah was reported missing. Also, and this applies to my last point as well, iphones have a lock screen that allows you to enable a 4 digit security pass code in order to utilize the phone. I cannot imagine a college aged girl with roommates would not have that function activated, thus making it impossible for someone other than herself to use the phone.

If we presume JM text from Hannah's phone, I would think the same theory applies with regards to the pass code and the phone's usability.

This whole case has been tragic and senseless, without question. For some bizarre reason, the phone and text issues are REALLY nagging at me.

Just some thoughts, and all MOO, sorry if it's a bit rambling.

I was one who posted on the Tempo thread the idea of HG losing her phone at the 14th & Wertland intersection, and have since seen that others in the early threads had already proposed the very same idea (rizzo0904, for one, in post #284 of Thread #7, on 9/21/14). When I thought about it further, I was stopped by the same thought as you, that without knowledge of the security passcode, how could someone use her phone?

However, I've since found it still could be possible. My dh has an iphone, and when an incoming text comes in, the name and some of the message shows up on the screen. If you swipe left on it, and hit reply, a keyboard comes up and allows you to quick reply to it. I don't know if my dh's settings are unusual, but I tested it out on his, and it worked in replying to a text without having to input the passcode!

I agree that you would think/hope that whoever had it would have turned her phone in to the police (if this scenario was indeed what happened). It is so frustrating and puzzling trying to figure out what poor, dear HG was doing that night, isn't it?

 

[Skigirl]

I was one who posted on the Tempo thread the idea of HG losing her phone at the 14th & Wertland intersection, and have since seen that others in the early threads had already proposed the very same idea (rizzo0904, for one, in post #284 of Thread #7, on 9/21/14). When I thought about it further, I was stopped by the same thought as you, that without knowledge of the security passcode, how could someone use her phone?

However, I've since found it still could be possible. My dh has an iphone, and when an incoming text comes in, the name and some of the message shows up on the screen. If you swipe left on it, and hit reply, a keyboard comes up and allows you to quick reply to it. I don't know if my dh's settings are unusual, but I tested it out on his, and it worked in replying to a text without having to input the passcode!

I agree that you would think/hope that whoever had it would have turned her phone in to the police (if this scenario was indeed what happened). It is so frustrating and puzzling trying to figure out what poor, dear HG was doing that night, isn't it?

BBM -- don't feel bad about posting the same ideas... pretty much everything right now is re-re-re-re-discussion about the same things. This is a hard phase of a case in my experience -- we have less information than the police and won't know much new for many months, yet everyone still wants to know how such a horrible thing could have happened, thus people want to keep talking, but with an absence of new things to talk about

 

[hambirg]

I've thought all along that her attire that night spoke of who she was. Athletic, sporty and energetic. I think the flashy top was to dress it up a little for the parties.

I had the same thoughts. If it wasn't for the sparkly top, I would have thought she was going out for a jog or off to the gym. It was probably just her style, idk.

 

[Jmm124567]

Jumping off your post. If Hannah went off screen in a grassy area, and she was intoxicated, might she have vomited in that location? That would make anyone look.

It looks more like she continued walking on the sidewalk. Somebody mentioned that she may have been looking for a friends car in that little parking lot there. I think that could be true.

 

[Jmm124567]

You bring out some very good points Conductor and I agree. IMO she got turned around or confused when she left the third party. I can't remember the name of the complex, but I believe when she left there, she headed the wrong way. I think she was already lost when she got to McGrady's, and was trying to see if someone she was friends with was there. I think when she realized she was at the DM, she thought she may possibly see someone she knew. I don't think she knew JM. He saw her and realized she was in a predicament that he could take advantage of, which seems to be part of his MO.

Third party? I thought it was only two parties she attended? I think one of the apartments she went to was called The Pointe.

 

[SolVol]

I think these are all actors, men included. So not much of an experiment.

And, FWIW, I used to party much more than I should have, and never once did I get "targeted."

Bet you didn't go down to the prostitution/trafficking, drug, etc. gang-run areas when you were drunk, did you? Bet that was a while ago too.

Things have changed in the last decade - on the streets, on campuses. For the worse. Far worse.

Hopefully, from the Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington cases, young people will sober up a bit and take more care/precautions.

 

[AnnaGrace]

Third party? I thought it was only two parties she attended? I think one of the apartments she went to was called The Pointe.

I apologize for not making myself clear on this. Thank you for bringing it to my attention and The Pointe is the complex I was trying to think of. I was considering the get together at 'The Fig Bistro and Bar' a party and then the two house parties.

Here are a couple of links from where I got my info:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/reports-jesse-matthew-probed-in-more-virginia-cold-cases/

http://www.roanoke.com/news/virgini...cle_d5278ec8-57a2-5134-9c17-c0537e6a8ea5.html

 

[Ollie]

Sometimes Hannah's journey that fateful night seems like movie; we've watched her all evening at parties,restaurants,walking, running ,and texting;looking at what she wore,who she talked to,all the way to the JM encounter ;we know what happened afterward,and where she was found. It's a compelling story,because it could have been anyone of us. Being at the wrong place,at the wrong time,with the wrong person. We all know many variables could have changed everything;but it didn't happen. If good can come out of any of this ;it must be our wake up call to our kids. Hannah is what we all want our kids to achieve;if evil is to be stopped ,we have to raise kids with the power of knowledge of their own vulnerability. They need to make decisions about the people they meet ;knowing it can affect their lives. Judging character takes being aware of our own instincts,body language , asking ourselves why someone comes on too strong initially; we must make the effort to instill our kids curiosity and not making decisions based on just what they see.Just my opinions of course.

 

[4MYGUYS]

Sometimes Hannah's journey that fateful night seems like movie; we've watched her all evening at parties,restaurants,walking, running ,and texting;looking at what she wore,who she talked to,all the way to the JM encounter ;we know what happened afterward,and where she was found. It's a compelling story,because it could have been anyone of us. Being at the wrong place,at the wrong time,with the wrong person. We all know many variables could have changed everything;but it didn't happen. If good can come out of any of this ;it must be our wake up call to our kids. Hannah is what we all want our kids to achieve;if evil is to be stopped ,we have to raise kids with the power of knowledge of their own vulnerability. They need to make decisions about the people they meet ;knowing it can affect their lives. Judging character takes being aware of our own instincts,body language , asking ourselves why someone comes on too strong initially; we must make the effort to instill our kids curiosity and not making decisions based on just what they see.Just my opinions of course.

And still they can become victims.
I try to instill this in my own, and they always listen. Recently I have bought some of the recommended books and read them and passed them along, as required reading. I try to gently insert ideas in my kids and grands, about ideas read here about insisting on keeping a personal space, self awareness, caution when drinking, etc etc, and it seems they always already know these ideas and tell me new things they have learned about personal safety. Some carry weapons.
AND still they can become victims. That is the sadness.