Harvard Professor Arrested--Gates Black in America

[Theonly1]

I think the real question is the order that things happened. I believe the professor when he says the police came into his residence. i believe the professor when he says he showed his ID and I believe him when he says he was arrested. Is what you don't hear from him is the order that things happened. A person that instigates the situation intentionally leaves out details like "it was 10 minutes later after i threw out all sorts or racial accusiations that I showed my ID" He never says "as soon as the officer showed up, i showed him my ID and we established that the home was his.

Putting together the ambiguity of the professor and the fact that he doesn't state he immediately showed ID, or was orderly, etc. and combining that with the officer's comments I come up with the following story:

Police are called with break-in and show up. Police confront professor. Professor doesn't co-operate and starts using racial accusations. Professor finally shows ID and establishes his home, and continues to be confrontational. Professor gets arrested due to bad behavior.

That is the way i read the story.

I agree with you that the order of facts in this incident is unknown.

I wanted to mention that Gates also had his DRIVER with him (like either limo or town car). The driver was allegedly helping him take care of the door. You have an educated black man (once you speak to him it is obvious), wearing a polo shirt and a nice pair of slacks with a belt, likely $500.00 shoes on too. He was well-groomed too (see his mug shot). He's got a driver with him helping him with his predicament. I'm sure the driver also gave a statement and I wonder what that statement reads like.

Once Gates handed over the driver's license with the same address as the location, for me, it is game over. It doesn't matter that he insulted the cops, got pissy-pie with them, or asked for a badge number. Once they ferreted out the fact that he was the owner they needed to leave.

I also agree that perhaps had he been NICE to the police he would not have been arrested. But we do know that some citizens do not feel like they should have to be nice to the police in order to receive fair treatment.

 

[lilacwine]

I'm in NH and teach a class on tolerance so I'm following this extra close.

Two things I haven't seen on the national news...

A neighbor was on camera giving an interview but didn't want his face shown. His story is quite close to the police officer's.

Secondly, there were multiple break ins in that area in the few weeks prior (I've heard as many as 9) including at least one at the professor's house.


I'm curious as to how this will proceed, but I hope that there is intelligent dialogue and an outcome that doesn't rip the community apart.

 

[southcitymom]

From the police report, I didn't see any provocation on the police officer's part. Of course, some will argue that the report is biased. But since I haven't developed psychic abilities yet, that's all I have to go on.

I don't either (see provocation), but I think we can assume the report favors one perspective. Certainly, the report does not show Gates behaving in a favorable light.

 

[Openmind]

I don't either (see provocation), but I think we can assume the report favors one perspective. Certainly, the report does not show Gates behaving in a favorable light.

I would like to hear from the other police and neighbors that witnessed at least how everyone acted once they left the house. According to one report I heard, when Crowley discovered Gates was a professor, he called Harvard campus police and they responded as well.

Here is an article about Gates and his version of what happened.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/blogtalk-gates-obama-race-and-the-police/

I'm not trying to imply Gates was not co-operating, but why did he want the officer's name and badge number?

What a mess. I guess we may have to have shoulder cams so they can record how everyone acts in an incident.

 

[mysterygirl]

Neighbors said Gates was "belligerent".

Officer tried to save Reggie Lewis years ago- gave him mouth to mouth, kinda doubt he is a racist..

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/re...gates_im_not_apologizing/srvc=home&position=0

 

[lonetraveler]

If he had ben white he wouldn't have been looking for a racial incident to put him on the news. A shame Gates is your foremost scholar. Everybody ran their mouth before they knew the whole story...including B. Obama who had no business whatsoever of commenting on it, let along in the fashion he did. He's not a Chicago black activist anymore. He's SUPPOSED to be POTUS.

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I'm afraid I have to disagree with a part of your answer. Obama is the POTUS but he is also a black activist. He is not about to forget the 21 years of training he received from his pastor. He was sticking up for his friend, it didn't matter if his friend was right or wrong. Is anyone surprised at this??????????? Really????????

 

[magnolia]

I don't understand why there is so much being made of this. This man's neighbor reported a possible break-in. The police show up and ask for proof that this man was the owner of the house. What were they supposed to do? Take his word for it and leave? The man's neighbors who should have recognized him reported a break-in. He didn't have to act the way he did, and he wouldn't have been arrested. Instead of acting all high and mighty when asked to prove he lived there he should have just given them the proof and been glad police were doing their job protecting his house by checking out the report called in by his neighbor.

I can just imagine what would be said if the police had said ok, you say you live here so we'll just take your word for it and leave without checking your ID. The big story then would probably be that the police didn't protect the house because it was a black man's residence.

BTW, being educated doesn't automatically giv e you a pass to behave any way you want toward the police.

I totally agree ~ The police officer was just doing his job.

I have supported and defended Obama, but I am very disappointed he chose to comment on the situation. Perhaps our President should walk a day in a Police officer's shoes.

 

[lonetraveler]

I would like to hear from the other police and neighbors that witnessed at least how everyone acted once they left the house. According to one report I heard, when Crowley discovered Gates was a professor, he called Harvard campus police and they responded as well.

Here is an article about Gates and his version of what happened.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/blogtalk-gates-obama-race-and-the-police/

I'm not trying to imply Gates was not co-operating, but why did he want the officer's name and badge number?

What a mess. I guess we may have to have shoulder cams so they can record how everyone acts in an incident.

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Gates himself offers that he is the one who volunteered to be a racial victim by making statements about the Policeman being white and he was black, therefore that is why the policeman was at his house. This is total BS. Racism is indeed alive and well only it is black on white discrimination.

 

[southcitymom]

I would like to hear from the other police and neighbors that witnessed at least how everyone acted once they left the house. According to one report I heard, when Crowley discovered Gates was a professor, he called Harvard campus police and they responded as well.

Here is an article about Gates and his version of what happened.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/blogtalk-gates-obama-race-and-the-police/

I'm not trying to imply Gates was not co-operating, but why did he want the officer's name and badge number?

What a mess. I guess we may have to have shoulder cams so they can record how everyone acts in an incident.

Just my 2 cents - I think the officer should have gotten lost after Gates showed his id with the address. That said, I think Gates goaded him and threw gas on a tense situation. I can really see it from both perspectives.

Gates is an older black man who, regardless of his professional esteem, has lived through institutionalized racism. His emotional experiences are still carried with him no matter how large his intellect is. He may feel singled out for layered and complicated reasons that I, by virtue of my cultural and racial experiences in the world, can't fully appreciate. I can appreciate that he might feel discriminated against and might be ugly and mouthy about that.

The officer is a white man with a strong professional record who obviously has some knowledge of racial sensitivity/issues between police and the communities they serve - I mean, he teaches a class and he's been on the force for a while. I can see him getting totally pi$$ed at someone "crying racism" when he feels like he's not being racist at all, just doing his job. I can appreciate that he might just use the power he has to arrest the person.

 

[lonetraveler]

I'm in NH and teach a class on tolerance so I'm following this extra close.

Two things I haven't seen on the national news...

A neighbor was on camera giving an interview but didn't want his face shown. His story is quite close to the police officer's.

Secondly, there were multiple break ins in that area in the few weeks prior (I've heard as many as 9) including at least one at the professor's house.


I'm curious as to how this will proceed, but I hope that there is intelligent dialogue and an outcome that doesn't rip the community apart.

---------------
JMO here but I think that if there had been another breakin at Gates's house and the police were a bit slow to arrive, we would still be hearing about how he was treated a certain way because he is black. He is bound and determined to be a victim. It is a real shame that we have a policeman here with exemplary reputation and career and now this Gates has decided to crucify this man. I do not see where the policeman did not follow standard procedure here. A burglary in progress was reported and the policeman did what he was suppose to do. This man, who was so important in his own mind decided to throw his weight around and use his contacts (including our very own president) to try to be a victim and make it a racial issue. The president should have stayed out of it entirely. Disgraceful.

 

[lonetraveler]

I don't either (see provocation), but I think we can assume the report favors one perspective. Certainly, the report does not show Gates behaving in a favorable light.

-----------
It might be because Gates was playing the screaming, raving maniac at the time. Totally uncalled for. He admitted himself that he and a friend were trying to break into the home. He should have just shown the Policeman his id and thanked him for responding to the call from the neighbor and thanked him again for protecting his home.

 

[lilacwine]

One more thing... during the press conference with the Police Comm he said the officer tried to remove himself from the situation in an attempt to de-escalate it, but events continued and he felt he needed to take Gates into custody.

He wouldn't elaborate with the "remove himself", but said not everything has been released.

 

[lonetraveler]

Here is a transcript of the police report
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/07/23/0498.001.pdf

I'm sorry if it's already been posted.

I have to say, after reading it, if it's true, I am thoroughly, totally, disgusted with this man's behavior (Professor Gates). What a sad excuse for a man. (of course only 2 people know the truth at this point).

Even more alarming....he's the president's friend. We should all worry about that friendship.

------------
He isn't the only alarming friend of Obama. It didn't bother Obama from becoming president, did it? I think it is really disgusting that the president would immediately be ready to blast the policeman without even finding out the whole, unbiased story. Says a lot!

 

[Openmind]

Truly, just my two cents, as well.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Just my 2 cents - I think the officer should have gotten lost after Gates showed his id with the address. That said, I think Gates goaded him and threw gas on a tense situation. I can really see it from both perspectives.

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Not sure Crowley could extract himself from the situation if Gates was already agitated and confrontational. I understand why Crowley asked Gates to come out of the house since he didn't know if he was a thief or the homeowner. It doesn't seem Gates was in any mood to hear why the police were at his home. He immediately assumed it was racial profiling. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Gates is an older black man who, regardless of his professional esteem, has lived through institutionalized racism. His emotional experiences are still carried with him no matter how large his intellect is. He may feel singled out for layered and complicated reasons that I, by virtue of my cultural and racial experiences in the world, can't fully appreciate. I can appreciate that he might feel discriminated against and might be ugly and mouthy about that.

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I actually had a discussion with a friend/co-worker [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]that is African- American about that very subject[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] and her comments echoed many of your ideas. I am sure Gates [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]was the victim of prejudice in his lifetime, but, IMHO, he has probably had some advantages offered to him based on his race. We have tried to create a means to allow those that have been excluded to not only be included but advanced. That was[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]/is a[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]s it [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]should be, but we have to reach a point w[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]here every disliked comment or every negative action is not perceived to be about race. We see all over the world cultures that centuries later are still waging war and hurting one another over events that happened long before any of the people being h[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]armed were even born. When do we step pass the assumption of prejudice[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] and quit perpetuating the hate?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The officer is a white man with a strong professional record who obviously has some knowledge of racial sensitivity/issues between police and the communities they serve - I mean, he teaches a class and he's been on the force for a while. I can see him getting totally pi$$ed at someone "crying racism" when he feels like he's not being racist at all, just doing his job. I can appreciate that he might just use the power he has to arrest the person.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We're all human and anyone can reach a point where the best choice isn't [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the one being made. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I like Bill Crosby's comment that both men should sit down and take ownership of their actions. Pity the president made this a national issue. [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]My daughter was the victim of a flasher [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]at a department store, and when the security guard asked for a description of the man, she was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]very hesitant to describe him. I finally asked [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]her if the man was African-America and she said yes. The security guard was also black and she was afraid it would offend him if she told that. Th[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]at sweet man [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]reassured her it was OK and that she had to be very honest. He was there to protect her. Sometimes the facts are just the facts. The neighbor described the intruders as black and Gates was black. No profiling [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]here -- just the police trying to do their job[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].[/FONT]

 

[Ms.Heather]

Mr. Gates: He said, I would like to you step outside. I said, absolutely not. I said, why are you here? He said, I’m investigating a breaking and entering charge. I said, this is my house, I’m a Harvard professor, I live here.

He said, can you prove it? I said, just a minute. I turned my back. I walked into the kitchen to get my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license. He followed me without my permission. I gave him the two IDs and I demanded to know his name and his badge number.

This is what Mr Gates says happened. I call total BS on this, he makes it sound like he was such a victim.

The officer is refusing to apologize, and I really hope that all of the public scrutiny that he is receiving does not make him back down from not offering an apology.

I think Obama is a idiot, and I always have. To speak about an incident, where you wanna claim stupidity on the police even when you even say that you don't "know the facts" but just because the man is a /"friend of yours" is such an irresponsible thing for A PRESIDENT to do. Shame on him. He needs to just focus on what he needs to do in the oval office and not worry about the Cambridge Police Dept. I wonder if he would commented on the fact that it was stupid if he didn't know the guy.

Do I believe that racism is still alive in America, absolutely. There are Whites who are racist against blacks, Blacks racist against white, Hispanics, Men racist against women. Is it ignorant, sure it is... but its our own personal choice. But I do not believe racism was a factor in this case here.

I'd love to hear the neighbor who actually called the police account of what happened. Is that out?

 

[lilacwine]

I forget exactly what the commissioner said about the 911 tapes.... but I believe he said they turned them over (don't know where) and were considering releasing them....
He was asked if any of the conversation could be overheard and he said they were still reviewing to see exactly what could be heard.


IMO Crowley naturally followed him because the man's identity had NOT been verified yet and if it wasn't him....but a thief... he could have fled or grabbed a weapon.

I feel so sad for Cambridge.

 

[Morrison]

Racism is not going to go away until 2 things happen:

1. People stop making racist comments or engaging in racist acts; and
2. The offended races stop jumping on the "racism" bandwagon every time something happens that offends their already over-sensitized feelings of injustice. It's not always a matter of racism. People are stupid and do stupid things regardless of their race, or anyone else's.


My husband is Hispanic and has actually had a "Gates-esque" experience....he was mowing the lawn at his new home a few years ago, when a man pulled up in a car and asked if the owner of the house was at home (thinking my husband was part of the Mexican landscape crew). My own family has made disparaging comments about Mexicans, before they stop themselves and feign embarrassment.

As a result of my marriage, my family has begun a new race. I call our children "Czech-Mex". (As you can guess, I'm Czech.)
(Yeah, I realize "Czech" isn't a race, but I like saying "Czech-Mex")

My Son is mixed race, his son even moreso. I really liked the old days when we all joked with each other and didn't have the Sharpton army of media and lawyers waiting to get rich off somebody complaining. Bring back Bunker and Jefferson and Sanford!

 

[southcitymom]

Obama should have stayed out of it, of course, though I can imagine that's difficult when a friend is involved. But I am empathetic to our leader's missteps because I think it would be awful in about 1000 different ways to be President.

It's a shame that neither man wants to apologize for his part in the situation....that, my friends, is not a race thing, but a (male) ego thing!! I am a gender profiler! Both men are afraid to back down and appear weak or wrong when, in actuality, owning your part in any given conflict is the apex of strength of character.

 

[songline]

Can you believe this? The man breaks into his own house and is arrested!

Apparently, the police asked him for his i.d. which he gave them in addition to his Harvard I.D. Even I recognized this honorable scholar the minute they showed his picture on my t.v. Lord have mercy.

Allegedly, Gates got pissy with the police after they did not believe him and called them "racist" and said, "This is what happens to black people in America."

Sure seems like it.

I am not taking sides, but I am just curious....
How is the police supposed to do their job?
If a man Black or white or pink or yellow brakes into a house even if it is his own house..HOW are they to know? what could they have done different?
I imagine they needed to make sure who is who?
I know tow sisters who look like each other but they do not speak. WHAT IF one broke into the other ones home? Should not the cops make sure WHO is WHO?
I think yes, and I am not sure this is a racial issue.
Nor do I expect all the cops to know who he is.
I get pizzed when everything becomes about a racial issue.

 

[lilacwine]

Obama should have stayed out of it, of course, though I can imagine that's difficult when a friend is involved. But I am empathetic to our leader's missteps because I think it would be awful in about 1000 different ways to be President.

It's a shame that neither man wants to apologize for his part in the situation....that, my friends, is not a race thing, but a (male) ego thing!! I am a gender profiler! Both men are afraid to back down and appear weak or wrong when, in actuality, owning your part in any given conflict is the apex of strength of character.

I agree about the male thing, but I also think it's a lawyer thing now... any apology will be used as an admission of culpability if this hits the courts.

And a community suffers.