Has the defense created reasonable doubt?

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by butterfly1978, Jun 24, 2011.

  1. Mountain_Kat

    Mountain_Kat Heca, Firimar !

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    To be succinct...NO.
     
  2. songline

    songline New Member

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    Ditto!
     
  3. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, Of course you have the right to your own opinion. Which is why I said IMO, in my opinion, in my response.

    I agree that Casey seems to have some mental issues. But they are not the type of diagnosis which legally give her a pass for her actions. She was fully aware of her actions and her behavior. She tailored her lies in the precise way necessary to avoid being caught by various friends and relatives. She was lucid enough to keep her stories straight and to cover up her evil deed for over a month.

    I think her actions are deplorable and she behaved barbarically. I think even Jung would agree and would find her interesting as an archetype of the selfish Black Moon Lilith of our times. imoo [ in my opinion only]

    As for evil souls, sorry, but we have different opinions and that is fine. But I believe Ted Bundy and the NightStalker and many others, are indeed, 'evil souls.' Just My Opinion.

    And when I look at what Casey did to her family and to her father most specifically, and to many other innocent people that she accused of murder, rape and kidnapping, then YES, she is evil, imo. EVEN IF THE CHILD DIED BY ACCIDENT, the vile behavior in the aftermath, where Casey purposely ruined so many lives in her greedy quest to walk away with no punishment, she deserves a harsh sentence for that alone.



    ETA;"The primordial image, or archetype, is a figure--be it a daemon, a human being, or a process--that constantly recurs in the course of history and appears wherever creative fantasy is freely expressed. Essentially, therefore, it is a mythological figure. . . . In each of these images there is a little piece of human psychology and human fate, a remnant of the joys and sorrows that have been repeated countless times in our ancestral history. . . ." Carl Jung "On the Relation of Analytical Psychology to Poetry" from C.G. Jung Quotes.
     
  4. grandmaj

    grandmaj Former Member

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    No. The Defense went all in and decided to try to come up with alternative theories. They didn't have to do that but IMO by doing what they did they set themselves up for expectations of proof, and they didn't come through with reasonable proof. They also changed their game too many times. The only theory that stood was perhaps an accidental drowning. But I believe the State tied up in a bow the reality and the common sense that whatever her parents are, they loved Caylee and would not have disposed of her with the trash.
     
  5. GeekyGirl

    GeekyGirl I rock at Trivial Pursuit, just don't ask me where

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    I've debated this with a coworker at length... I personally think she has some sort of axis II disorder (and I am by no means an expert) like narcissistic personality or antisocial personality disorder. So in some ways that would make her mentally ill, but not in the sense that she can be treated with medication and stabilized, or find relief from her symptoms. Personality disorders are funny things... They don't have any organic disease process as far as researchers know, they just sort of seem to be variant personality types that have managed to continue to propagate because they have unique survival skills. So is that really a mental illness, per say? Or are they just, well, different? Reading articles and books written by people who study people with these personality disorders is intellectually fascinating but a little scary at the same time. A common theme throughout is the description of their complete inability to empathize with other human beings. They're intrigued by others, they mimic "normal" responses, but they don't truly have the capacity to understand how others feel because they lack empathy. Think about this, think about what we use to define our morals and ethics. If we're functional human beings, we live within the laws and boundaries that society dictates. Why do we do this? Some of it is probably fear, but we don't live in a police state. We could easily get away with committing at least a dozen petty crimes every day, and our chances of getting caught would be slim. We don't do these things because we know they are wrong, and we would feel guilty. For example we would understand that if we swiped the money out of a donation jar on the counter of the corner market, we would be hurting the person who needs those donations and we would feel bad. People with APD and NPD wouldn't, they lack the capacity to feel that guilt, at least according to the mental health community. So while I completely understand the person ^above^ who said we can only judge actions, I also understand the person who feels like Casey is missing something essential to the human experience, something that makes her capable of being evil. It's truly a conundrum, what do you with a person like this, one that can't be "cured" (according to research) and really has no desire to be rehabilitated, because they can't truly grasp what they're lacking? Alas I have no answers, so all we can do is let the jury decide her fate based on the law, and hope that doesn't have a chance to hurt anyone else. MOO
     
  6. gngr~snap

    gngr~snap Verified Pediatric Nurse Georgia

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    I say 4:00 p
    1-1/2 hr for lunch 12:00-1:30:seeya:
     
  7. logicalgirl

    logicalgirl Peace Hawk

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    Because ICA knew she wouldn't need whatever stash of chloroform she had left so she poured it into the trunk while Caylee was there? ICA had to know it evaporates...
     
  8. rachelle

    rachelle Active Member

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    Hope I put this in the right thread...

    I was wondering if the jury is aware, or will be made aware, that this new "GA did it/pool accident" theory/story was just told to the world as the now "truth" on the first day of trial....

    Or are they supposed to assume that this was being floated around for awhile just as the Zanny and Jay Blanchard Park was?

    I hope someone understands my question and can help me out here!

    :)

    TIA
     
  9. logicalgirl

    logicalgirl Peace Hawk

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    I agree completely Mountain _Kat and welcome back from the dark side!!
     
  10. logicalgirl

    logicalgirl Peace Hawk

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    They will after they've reached a verdict, made a recommendation to the Judge and are excused with the State's compliments for their fine service to the justice system.

    They should be finding about the felony cheques convictions at about the same time.
     
  11. crucibelle

    crucibelle Pisces

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    WOW.. gitana!! :yourock:

    That was a brilliant post!!! :rocker:
     
  12. Chewy

    Chewy Well-Known Member

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    They lack empathy. My mother has undiagnosed NPD. She is text book case.

    I have seen her on more than one occasion mimic being a supportive mom about an issue. She tries. The only time she cries is when she feels she has been betrayed or hurt or wronged. She has absolutely no ability to have empathy about another person in true feelings, only words or actions like a hug.

    It's very frightening to see.
     
  13. GeekyGirl

    GeekyGirl I rock at Trivial Pursuit, just don't ask me where

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    Not exactly the intent of my post, but that's an interesting theory. Do you mean before or after Caylee died?
     
  14. Mountain_Kat

    Mountain_Kat Heca, Firimar !

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    I got the double whammy of Roy Kronk the body snatcher and George Anthony the sob Dad who tried to frame his daughter for murder (I guess...I don't really know WHAT the DT was trying to say), and that was pretty much it for me. I didn't even need a closing argument, to be honest. LWOP or DP...doesn't really matter much to me. I won't lose any sleep on way or the other.
     
  15. Leomoon80

    Leomoon80 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we aren't so far apart as we think we are, for we both give credance to Carl Jung for educating us as to Archtypes (he too studied Astrology)
    and for that we are both grateful.

    However, just to be on record here, as to the existence of "evil" I'd have to explain myself, (or feel I should explain), that some of the deeds done by those you point to (Night Stalker, Ted Bundy), etc. are so reprehensible that causes society to lock them up and throw away the key, and so they NEED to, protect society from those people, i.e. souls.
    Yet, their soul still exists, the same as mine does.

    The concept of Evil comes from seeing the dualistic world (in my opinion) in stark black and white terms, for Satan and the "evil one" has come down to us from time immemorable, yet does actually "have a beginning" in the ancient Hebrew texts as a concept and not a soul or a fallen angel. But this is "OT" to even get into.

    I think it's a misnomer is what I'm trying to say here.

    Not an actuality...but rather a "concept" to explain man's dirty deeds. (women's too), lol. Let's not leave them out. There are Black Widows galore in our society who "off their husbands" and even their children.
     
  16. GeekyGirl

    GeekyGirl I rock at Trivial Pursuit, just don't ask me where

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    I'm sorry for this... That has to be rough. :(
     
  17. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    If the jurors told the truth when they said they didn't know all the details, some knew nothing about the case, and they really can be unbiased when it comes to deliberations I believe the defense has created reasonable doubt that some of the jurors could hang their opinion on.

    That doesn't mean they will find her not guilty. I just think there might be a few jurors that need convincing but I do think the chance of a hung jury is higher after Baez's closing.

    I want to stress I don't think Baez did a great job, I don't think Casey is innocent, I'm just trying to look at it from a juror's point of view.
     
  18. GeekyGirl

    GeekyGirl I rock at Trivial Pursuit, just don't ask me where

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    I think you're right... I can't imagine what it must have been like in that room today. 33 days of absorbing all that information and not being able to discuss it? I'd go nuts.
     
  19. pinup

    pinup New Member

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    I don't think people would be saying, "Poor thing, it must be MI" if ICA were a man. She can obviously function in society, and she's been examined by AT LEAST three MH professionals who were approved by her own DT. Even if--IF--she is a certifiable sociopath, that doesn't preclude her from standing trial and taking her punishment just like any other person. I have a strong suspicion that most murderers are sociopaths...do we vote to have mercy on them as well and send them to a MH clinic instead? No.

    Somehow we, as a society, have gotten the erroneous idea that women, especially mothers, are more noble creatures than the rest of the population. As a mother myself, I can affirm that this is a myth. Mothers are no different than anyone else in their thoughts, emotions, and impulses and are just as capable of committing crimes, even when those involve filicide.
     
  20. ColdDayIn

    ColdDayIn Well-Known Member

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    I think it is probably pretty clear to the jury that this is a recent story. The state talked alot about the Zanny thing and even how up until 6 wks before the trial CA thought Caylee might still be alive. I think just from hearing that about the 6wks, they can infer that something caused her to change her mind. Also, remember that most of the members of the jury, if not all, HAD heard about the case, just didn't know a bunch of details, and they all had likely only ever heard about Zanny. Also, there was the fact that they brought up that the accident theory had been brought up by CA in a jailhouse tape early on, and how YM was trying to offer up an accident in his questioning of ICA. I'm sure there's more examples, but I can't think of any more right now. HTH!
     

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