Has Your Opinions of Ron's Involvement Changed?***POLL ADDED***

[krkrjx]

I'm not a lawyer but have background in the legal field. I do not know about Florida laws but in most jurisdictions there are degrees of homicide. If it was OD that was administered to Haleigh, it could be unintentional homicide or manslaughter. It would not be murder if there was no intent for her to die.

A punch or a kick would not be murder unless it could be proven there was intent to cause death or the situation was such that the perp should have known their action could result in death.

There is a thing called negligent homicide in most jurisdictions. That would cover Haleigh taking a drug user's pills on her own, and it would cover not giving her help or seeking medical care or calling 911 immediately if they saw Haleigh injured or ill. It would also cover gunshot if a bullet hit her but it cannot be proven it was intended to hit her, or that the gun was intended to be fired.

Murder is intentional. Murder One is premeditated. Someone dying during the commission of a felony--even if there was never any intent for anyone to die--is felony murder or capital murder (same thing, just a different name depending on where you are from).

Personally, I do not think Haleigh was murdered...but it could still be a murder charge if she died as a result of or during the commission of another crime.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

How did Haleigh know that Misty, Tommy and Joe shouldn't have been there? They all had been there before.

Even a child would know something was wrong if people came in screaming, cussing and hollering and demanding to know where her daddy's gun was, imo.

Maybe she had already heard Ron tell Misty he didn't want Joe and Tommy over there when he was at work.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No, cops are just saying homicide, and I don't think she overdosed either, I think she was killed in the midst of Rons rage.

jmo

I do think she was killed in the midst of someone's rage but not Ron's.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My opinion (that Ron was involved) hasn't changed.

bbm

I supposed until there's a trial with a beyond reasonable doubt verdict, then it's all conjecture as far as who did what; And I think folks are free to theorize about who they find hinky... even if it's Ronald.


moo

I think everyone is entitled to have their own theories and opinions about any case.

This case certainly isn't different than others where an arrest or arrests haven't been made yet.

During the Greone, Lunsford, Wilbanks, Vitale and Smith cases and others, the majority thought the suspects were family members but it turned out not to be the case.

So really this is just a discussion board and not a court of law. Sometimes the majority gets it right and sometimes they don't. Just the way it goes when theorizing about cases and suspects.

IMO

 

[redfish]

I think everyone is entitled to have their own theories and opinions about any case.

This case certainly isn't different than others where an arrest or arrests haven't been made yet.

During the Greone, Lunsford, Wilbanks, Vitale and Smith cases and others, the majority thought the suspects were family members but it turned out not to be the case.

So really this is just a discussion board and not a court of law. Sometimes the majority gets it right and sometimes they don't. Just the way it goes when theorizing about cases and suspects.

IMO

You are so right about that OceanBlueeyes. Its all opinion here and we try to form them from facts. Unfortunately we seldom have all of the facts, try as we may.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I don't think everyone has covered up a murder. So far, the Croslins have pointed the finger directly at themsevles and each other. I don't buy the notion that Misty is protecting Ron, because I would have to think that Tommy is ALSO protecting Ron, which would make no sense at all. Crystal's impassioned opinions are just more Croslin smokescreen; if Misty and Tommy could have pinned this on Ron, they would have.

In any situation in which a babysitter/stepmother/live-in kills a child, the parent has some culpability for bringing that person into the child's life, and of course selling and using drugs and flaunting an unhealthy fascination with guns puts everyone in a home at risk. That said, there is no evidence I am aware of that RC's drug involvement or guns gives anyone permission to kill his daughter. I also do not believe that RC was indifferent to her death, as various more objective people have indicated otherwise since Haleigh's disappearance.

I've always thought that this was a sex abuse crime at heart, in part because Misty had raised the issue of her own abuse early on--another case of her lies being mixed in with disguised truth. But that is obviously just my opinion, as there is no evidence to show what, exactly, happened to this poor little girl.

 

[suspicious1]

I still continue to believe the ones involved in Haleigh's disappearance are Tommy, Misty and very possibly Joe.

I have yet to see any evidence that convinces me that Ron had any involvement in his daughter's disappearance.

Imo, he was at work the entire time and was not at home when Haleigh was harmed by the real perpetrators and I think LE has long known that based on the phone activity/records of all the players involved in this case, including Ron's phone records.

IMO

BBM

That's weird...because I have yet to see any evidence that convinces me that Ron did not have any involvement in his daughter's disappearance.JMO

 

[blazeofglory]

PICAZIO: Well, there are some reports that have been substantiated or not by law enforcement about the time that he did get to work and prior nights where he had left work. And we also had confirm -- confirmation from a security guard at his employer`s that on two occasions Ron had the children, Haleigh and her little brother, Junior, sleeping in the car while he was at work and came to check out on them. That might go to the phone calls that he was trying to get in touch with Misty, because that would happen when Misty would leave the trailer.

this is from jvm transcript sept 3,2010

i just dont understand why le hasnt brought charges .its very clear there is charges here that could be brought..rc endangered 3 children and i do mean mc also because she herself was a child..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

That's weird...because I have yet to see any evidence that convinces me that Ron did not have any involvement in his daughter's disappearance.JMO

Sorry that you think my opinion is weird Suspicious. But I still see nothing that convinces me that Ron had any involvement in his daughter's disappearance.

And I haven't seen anything that convinces me that law enforcement thinks he did either.

So we just have differing opinions. I respect yours but it still does not change my own opinion.

IMO

 

[suspicious1]

Sorry that you think my opinion is weird Suspicious. But I still see nothing that convinces me that Ron had any involvement in his daughter's disappearance.

And I haven't seen anything that convinces me that law enforcement thinks he did either.

So we just have differing opinions. I respect yours but it still does not change my own opinion.

IMO

No...what's weird is the fact that we all have been privy to the same information....videos, interviews, ect....and what one sees as innocent, others see as guilt...I respect everyone's opinion and that's the reason I started this thread....to see where people stood on whether they felt Ron was guilty or not...I'm quite sure you have voted and are among those that feel that Ron is not involved....I respect that....but if you take a look at the poll results, some that felt he was not involved in the beginning, feel that he may be involved now......something made them change their minds....and that "something" may be viewed as perfectly innocent to the Ron supporters.....some people who felt he was involved in the beginning, now feels that he may not be involved....the poll is very interesting...

Some people have been adamant from day one that he had absolutely nothing to do with Haleigh's disappearance...then there's the high percentage of people who believe and have believed from day one that Ron is involved in whatever happened to Haleigh.....I am apart of this percentage....if you read the very first post in this thread...I'm not so sure that Ron killed or harmed Haleigh but it is my belief that he has known from day one what happened and may be protecting the one responsible...and in my book, that still makes him involved....IMO, Ron "offered alot of valuable information" that should have been "offered" long time ago, if he was absolutely clueless as to what happened to his daughter....

I don't spend my time on here trying to persuade someone else that what I believe is correct...it may not be....but the debate will continue until LE make an arrest...we will have to wait and see....

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I still continue to believe the ones involved in Haleigh's disappearance are Tommy, Misty and very possibly Joe.

I have yet to see any evidence that convinces me that Ron had any involvement in his daughter's disappearance.

Imo, he was at work the entire time and was not at home when Haleigh was harmed by the real perpetrators and I think LE has long known that based on the phone activity/records of all the players involved in this case, including Ron's phone records.

IMO

I agree with everything except the Joe part. I don't think he had anything to do with it at all. I think he had the misfortune of being Misty and Tommy's first patsy and that his "involvement" ends there.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Not any more shocked than I am that you have never heard this before...
Many here believe Ronald C is responsible and his momma and grandmother have known he is responsible.. And this had been stated time and time again since the beginning..And IIRC you have been posting for quite sometime...
Too Too many strange things coming from all of the Cummings/Sykes Clan in the last 18 plus months for them not to know Ronald C is responsible for whatever happened to Haleigh..And IMHO, his mother and his grandmother know exactly where she is too....Personally, I cannot imagine LE hasn't figured it out yet..Right now I'm just waiting on justice for Haleigh....JMHO..

BBM
Please define "many," and on what facts are these beliefs based?

 

[my_tee_mouse]

My opinion (that Ron was involved) hasnt changed.

bbm

I supposed until there's a trial with a beyond reasonable doubt verdict, then it's all conjecture as far as who did what; And I think folks are free to theorize about who they find hinky... even if it's Ronald.


moo

Most "conjecture" is based on some sort of fact...not based on blatantly overlooking known facts, twisting known facts and jumping right over known facts to get to an opinion based on bias.

This site is called Websleuths. Not Webgossips or Webjudges. The object of the game is to take facts and come to a logical conclusion. Too many people are going at this whole case based on their prejudice against RC and his drug dealings and letting that knowledge color their logic when it comes to the murder of his child. Drug dealing does not equal child murder. Not being the type of parent "we" think is "normal" does not equal child murder. I ask again: on what facts do the Ron-Did-Its base that premise?

 

[krkrjx]

BBM
Please define "many," and on what facts are these beliefs based?

I hope you don't mind if I jump in here...

I do not know any facts about who did what in this case. The only hard fact I have is that little Haleigh has not been seen since early February 2009.

Since then, I have witnessed some really strange behaviors from some of the players in the case, and Mr. Cummings is one of them.

Now, I do not see Ron Cummings as one who would deliberately injure his daughter, and even his strange behavior and subsequent failure to cooperate with investigators to find his child do not lead me to conclude that he plotted and planned his daughter's demise.

However, in lieu of facts, we can only go with what we see. Certainly LE does not always have facts--they very often must work toward solutions by observing, just like we here at WS have been doing.

There are differing opinions on this case, as in most mysteries. What is observed by one person as one thing might be observed by another as something else. Without facts and explanations, we use our instinct and intuition to arrive at our theories. As instincts and intuitions vary from person to person, so will the theories.

There is little to no physical evidence in this case, but what is evident to me is that Haleigh went missing and the people close to her appeared to me to just carry on with their lives as if it never happened. I just cannot ignore that.

I will admit I do not know how an individual is supposed to act when their child disappears. I cannot say for sure that I would always know what to do if my child was missing without a trace, but I can tell you right now I would certainly know what not to do...

I would not even consider getting married mere weeks after such a tragedy, especially to the person believed to be the last to see my child before she disappeared! And I cannot name even one friend, relative, neighbor, acquaintance, or resident of my town who would not question my motives if I were to pull such a stunt!

The facts in this case are few, but the red flags are many, IMO.

 

[Whisperer]

If ron was not involved in his daughter's death, and it appears LE does not think he is, what would be the reason he is covering for Misty What's in it for him to protect her?

 

[dodie20]

If ron was not involved in his daughter's death, and it appears LE does not think he is, what would be the reason he is covering for Misty What's in it for him to protect her?

well, he did tell Cobra that he loved that 'sob', so love?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

No...what's weird is the fact that we all have been privy to the same information....videos, interviews, ect....and what one sees as innocent, others see as guilt...I respect everyone's opinion and that's the reason I started this thread....to see where people stood on whether they felt Ron was guilty or not...I'm quite sure you have voted and are among those that feel that Ron is not involved....I respect that....but if you take a look at the poll results, some that felt he was not involved in the beginning, feel that he may be involved now......something made them change their minds....and that "something" may be viewed as perfectly innocent to the Ron supporters.....some people who felt he was involved in the beginning, now feels that he may not be involved....the poll is very interesting...

Some people have been adamant from day one that he had absolutely nothing to do with Haleigh's disappearance...then there's the high percentage of people who believe and have believed from day one that Ron is involved in whatever happened to Haleigh.....I am apart of this percentage....if you read the very first post in this thread...I'm not so sure that Ron killed or harmed Haleigh but it is my belief that he has known from day one what happened and may be protecting the one responsible...and in my book, that still makes him involved....IMO, Ron "offered alot of valuable information" that should have been "offered" long time ago, if he was absolutely clueless as to what happened to his daughter....

I don't spend my time on here trying to persuade someone else that what I believe is correct...it may not be....but the debate will continue until LE make an arrest...we will have to wait and see....

Thank you for your sensible post.

I try to look at each case as to who may have had criminal responsibility. The moral questions I try to leave up to others.

I admit I do not like the actions of anyone involved this case, but my own personal biases, I know full well, don't really have diddly squat to do with bringing true justice for Haleigh, so I try to set those aside.

Yes, you are right we all look at things differently. I can only voice my opinion on what I believe at the time based on the information known.

While I certainly respect others who thinks Ron is guilty, I just don't see anything that convinces me of that. If I did then anyone that knows me here would know I would be jumping on Ron Cummings with both feet. I certainly don't approve of Ron and many of the things he has done but then so many in this case have acted so inappropriately so he is certainly not alone. But still it does not show me he is guilty of harming Haleigh or having knowledge that he kept to himself.

There are no Mr. Rogers or Mother Teresa in this case. Many times that seems to be the case unfortunately. So the behaviors of those involved aren't that shocking to me.

I think your thread is very interesting and thought provoking. I would have loved to have seen one in the Greone, Lunsford, Vitale, Wilbanks and Smith cases among others. It would have been great to refer back to once the real perpetrators were arrested.

In fact I think a poll like this should be included in every case discussed here when the perpetrator(s) haven't been arrested yet.

IMO

 

[Baznme]

Sometimes the difference between a theory and the truth is a "gut feeling". I have not waivered in my opinion since day one.

 

[dodie20]

My opinion of Ron at 1 time, was that he was probably directly involved. Now, I'm leaning towards him being indirectly involved. knowingly indirectly involved. If at least this much isn't true, what info would he have had to give cops for his deal? He wouldn't have had anything, & would've been ignored. My feelings for Misty are the ones which have changed the most. At 1st I thought she was probably involved, but covering for Ron...out of love & fear. Now, I see her in a different light. I'm still not convinced that she was directly involved, but I think if she was covering for somebody, it was her brother. mainly for her parents & Tommy's kids. & where as before, I thought just Ron & his mom were pulling her strings, I now see that Hank has been pulling them too. Misty has been manipulated by different people, for different reasons. I guess different people had different reasons, to fear what she might tell cops. I'll be very surprised, if she killed Haleigh, because the only person I've seen covering for her is Ron. & I don't think his motivation was to keep her out of prison for murder. & also, if Ron thought she was guilty, would GGS have let her keep raising Jr? I see Misty as not the murderer, so she felt justified in her lies & non cooperation. & I think she guessed that Tommy was involved, & has been pointing at him, (half-heartedly), since the beginning. & I think Ron figured out what most likely happened, but wasn't proactive about cops getting the killer, because he knew, he'd get snitched on for his own crimes.

 

[justus4all]

My opinion of Ron at 1 time, was that he was probably directly involved. Now, I'm leaning towards him being indirectly involved. knowingly indirectly involved. If at least this much isn't true, what info would he have had to give cops for his deal? He wouldn't have had anything, & would've been ignored. My feelings for Misty are the ones which have changed the most. At 1st I thought she was probably involved, but covering for Ron...out of love & fear. Now, I see her in a different light. I'm still not convinced that she was directly involved, but I think if she was covering for somebody, it was her brother. mainly for her parents & Tommy's kids. & where as before, I thought just Ron & his mom were pulling her strings, I now see that Hank has been pulling them too. Misty has been manipulated by different people, for different reasons. I guess different people had different reasons, to fear what she might tell cops. I'll be very surprised, if she killed Haleigh, because the only person I've seen covering for her is Ron. & I don't think his motivation was to keep her out of prison for murder. & also, if Ron thought she was guilty, would GGS have let her keep raising Jr? I see Misty as not the murderer, so she felt justified in her lies & non cooperation. & I think she guessed that Tommy was involved, & has been pointing at him, (half-heartedly), since the beginning. & I think Ron figured out what most likely happened, but wasn't proactive about cops getting the killer, because he knew, he'd get snitched on for his own crimes.

bolded by me.....

I have long thought....and still of the opinion....that what your comment was I bolded...is what I think also...

If Misty had killed/caused the death..of Haleigh...you are right..Ron and his family would NOT have Misty around Junior...in her care...

that makes sense to me....Who WOULD let her back around...and in the care of...their remaining child.....???

Good point!!!

But Ron and family embraced Misty...WHY?????....

And they did.....until recently.....NOW.....TN wants Misty "hung in the square"..and for folks NOT to believe that ANYTHING Misty says..it not to be believed...she's a liar...(sorry, can't find link)

And if Misty is pointing the finger at Tommy...what do they have to be worried about....????..

Sounds like Ron and company...are on a smear tactic...of Misty...WHY???

Hmmmmmmmm...
moo