HODGE-PODGE - LISK-related

[OnTheCase27]

I've been obsessed with the burlap lately. Wasserman Bag Co

70 Commerce Place, Hicksville, NY 11801

http://m.google.com/u/m/ASNFP5

This place carries all kinds o burlap sacks. And if PB's triangle is correct this place is on the way.

 

[mysterymom7]

I've been obsessed with the burlap lately. Wasserman Bag Co

70 Commerce Place, Hicksville, NY 11801

http://m.google.com/u/m/ASNFP5

This place carries all kinds o burlap sacks. And if PB's triangle is correct this place is on the way.

I don't put too much weight on the burlap any more. When I was first looking into the case I did. When I found out a lot of the locals near the water use burlap bags of sand to keep basements from flooding, the demand for burlap became too great and, IMO, won't help narrow down the suspect pool.

 

[Peter Brendt]

:floorlaugh:

He makes it sound so easy! I'ma gonna need to spend alot of time trying to wrap my head around that! : )

Well, let me assure you, it is not that easy ... at least not the first dozen times. :floorlaugh:

 

[Peter Brendt]

What I got from this is I now know I screwed up and realize if I only carried a triangle and a map with me I could have been NYPD's version of Sherlock Holmes. What difference does it make even if the triangle theory has some merit....there are several million people living in that area. Remember the old TV Detective Story, The Naked City? It started with 'there are 8 million stories in the naked city.'

As I wrote, we need more to narrow it down. And yes, if you would have looked at the map, at the ways, the killer had to use to reach the locations where he dropped those remains and if you would have paid attention to what this killer (in this case Manorville) does, you could have come to the same idea. You didn't. Maybe you will do next time. Or you will quote again from the naked city. Who knows?

 

[Peter Brendt]

I've been obsessed with the burlap lately. Wasserman Bag Co

70 Commerce Place, Hicksville, NY 11801

http://m.google.com/u/m/ASNFP5

This place carries all kinds o burlap sacks. And if PB's triangle is correct this place is on the way.

Obsessed with burlap? Oh oh, that isn't good, you know what that did to that other guy ...
And it's MM's triangle, so she deserves the merit, I only used it.
But now seriously, do we know whether the burlap the GB4 were wrapped in were sacks or just cloth? I take it, someone could also get cloth there?

 

[OnTheCase27]

Obsessed with burlap? Oh oh, that isn't good, you know what that did to that other guy ...
And it's MM's triangle, so she deserves the merit, I only used it.
But now seriously, do we know whether the burlap the GB4 were wrapped in were sacks or just cloth? I take it, someone could also get cloth there?

I have not found any specific details on the GB4's burlap. Yes you can get cloth, bags up to 72" by 72" an even just squares. Plus they have a special on used burlap bags. Obviously there are other places on LI and in the city that offer burlap. This one just struck me with the wide variety of burlap.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I have not found any specific details on the GB4's burlap. Yes you can get cloth, bags up to 72" by 72" an even just squares. Plus they have a special on used burlap bags. Obviously there are other places on LI and in the city that offer burlap. This one just struck me with the wide variety of burlap.

So, if nothing else it proves, there is burlap ready available and if someone produces that much of that stuff, there is a demand. So the original idea, burlap isn't much used anymore was obviously wrong (well, in my opinion). So, for what is all that stuff used, I wonder (aside of wrapping bodies)?

 

[OnTheCase27]

So, if nothing else it proves, there is burlap ready available and if someone produces that much of that stuff, there is a demand. So the original idea, burlap isn't much used anymore was obviously wrong (well, in my opinion). So, for what is all that stuff used, I wonder (aside of wrapping bodies)?

I know the bags are used in landscaping/gardening. People sometimes use the bags in place of pots for plants and vegetables.

 

[fieldnotes]

I know the bags are used in landscaping/gardening. People sometimes use the bags in place of pots for plants and vegetables.

I wish we knew for sure if all the burlap was equally degraded. Do we know for sure if that picture of the skeleton on Ocean Parkway with no real visible burlap was one of the GB 4? Because the central question in my mind is still was the GB 4 put there in one trip. If they were then it means they were put there sometime between Sept and Dec of 2010. And if they were why? Why after keeping bodies from 2007 and 2009, 2010 do you all of a sudden decide to get rid of them. In the past we've had our theories - like they came to OB and started looking for Shannan in earnest at that point etc., an upcoming wetland reconstruction etc.

I was at the vigil this weekend and drove in the car with family members and ppl including myself who have driven to the crosses 10 to 12 times and we still have trouble finding them or being sure when that spot is coming up. I know it can be done and we've been over countless techniques to do it but I just feel like these four were dropped there in one shot late in 2010. I can't get away from that in my mind.

 

[OnTheCase27]

I wish we knew for sure if all the burlap was equally degraded. Do we know for sure if that picture of the skeleton on Ocean Parkway with no real visible burlap was one of the GB 4? Because the central question in my mind is still was the GB 4 put there in one trip. If they were then it means they were put there sometime between Sept and Dec of 2010. And if they were why? Why after keeping bodies from 2007 and 2009, 2010 do you all of a sudden decide to get rid of them. In the past we've had our theories - like they came to OB and started looking for Shannan in earnest at that point etc., an upcoming wetland reconstruction etc.

I was at the vigil this weekend and drove in the car with family members and ppl including myself who have driven to the crosses 10 to 12 times and we still have trouble finding them or being sure when that spot is coming up. I know it can be done and we've been over countless techniques to do it but I just feel like these four were dropped there in one shot late in 2010. I can't get away from that in my mind.

I think it's a very important question. And I can see both aspects of possibilities. If he did leave the bodies four separate times it was probably gratifying for him to know he was adding to his collection there. Also if he has to load up four bodies in his vehicle at one time that is very time consuming. Unloading them would be equally as time consuming. I think if he did leave them all at once they might be closer together.

However it's also risky to make four separate trips to leave a dead body. Your multiplying the amount of times you could get caught. He could unload one move up and unload another and so on and so forth. There's merit to both examples I believe. I wonder if LE even knows.

 

[CriminalMinds]

Obsessed with burlap? Oh oh, that isn't good, you know what that did to that other guy ...
And it's MM's triangle, so she deserves the merit, I only used it.
But now seriously, do we know whether the burlap the GB4 were wrapped in were sacks or just cloth? I take it, someone could also get cloth there?

wrapped in linear burlap

 

[Theforeigner]

I wish we knew for sure if all the burlap was equally degraded. Do we know for sure if that picture of the skeleton on Ocean Parkway with no real visible burlap was one of the GB 4? Because the central question in my mind is still was the GB 4 put there in one trip. If they were then it means they were put there sometime between Sept and Dec of 2010. And if they were why? Why after keeping bodies from 2007 and 2009, 2010 do you all of a sudden decide to get rid of them. In the past we've had our theories - like they came to OB and started looking for Shannan in earnest at that point etc., an upcoming wetland reconstruction etc.

I was at the vigil this weekend and drove in the car with family members and ppl including myself who have driven to the crosses 10 to 12 times and we still have trouble finding them or being sure when that spot is coming up. I know it can be done and we've been over countless techniques to do it but I just feel like these four were dropped there in one shot late in 2010. I can't get away from that in my mind.

Here is the answer Fieldnotes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/nyregion/15bodies.html?_r=0

Commissioner Dormer said they were spread over a quarter mile, each 500 feet from the next. But they were placed there at different times, judging by their varying degrees of decomposition, he said.

“Obviously, it does not look like they were dumped at the same time,” he said. “A couple of them were there a year, or year and a half, or maybe two years. Not recent.”

 

[CriminalMinds]

I wish we knew for sure if all the burlap was equally degraded. Do we know for sure if that picture of the skeleton on Ocean Parkway with no real visible burlap was one of the GB 4? Because the central question in my mind is still was the GB 4 put there in one trip. If they were then it means they were put there sometime between Sept and Dec of 2010. And if they were why? Why after keeping bodies from 2007 and 2009, 2010 do you all of a sudden decide to get rid of them. In the past we've had our theories - like they came to OB and started looking for Shannan in earnest at that point etc., an upcoming wetland reconstruction etc.

I was at the vigil this weekend and drove in the car with family members and ppl including myself who have driven to the crosses 10 to 12 times and we still have trouble finding them or being sure when that spot is coming up. I know it can be done and we've been over countless techniques to do it but I just feel like these four were dropped there in one shot late in 2010. I can't get away from that in my mind.

different times--i'd guess after each time--one of the bodies had vegetation growing up through it----although i know there is speculation about that wetland reconstruction project in so much as the bodies were together in a drainage ditch, and moved at one shot

 

[fieldnotes]

Here is the answer Fieldnotes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/nyregion/15bodies.html?_r=0

Commissioner Dormer said they were spread over a quarter mile, each 500 feet from the next. But they were placed there at different times, judging by their varying degrees of decomposition, he said.

“Obviously, it does not look like they were dumped at the same time,” he said. “A couple of them were there a year, or year and a half, or maybe two years. Not recent.”

Thanks that's a great article I didn't have. Not sure if you can ever take what they say as definitive - whether it be misinformation or misspeaking. The bodies for example arent each 500 feet apart. I think they range from 200 to 800 feet apart in actuality. But this is an important article thanks again.

 

[fieldnotes]

Thanks that's a great article I didn't have. Not sure if you can ever take what they say as definitive - whether it be misinformation or misspeaking. The bodies for example arent each 500 feet apart. I think they range from 200 to 800 feet apart in actuality. But this is an important article thanks again.

Here is another important article with a description of the burlap.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/n...odies-key-role-for-officer-and-dog.html?_r=1&


On Dec. 11, he returned, this time venturing west. He said he stuck close to the shoulder of the parkway, because the vegetation was so thick and because data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation showed that when bodies were dumped, most were disposed of about 30 feet from the road. That afternoon, shortly before 3 p.m., Blue picked up a scent on the parkway.
“The tail starts wagging; he’s making adjustments with his head,” Officer Mallia said, adding, “There was some burlap, and most of the skeleton was there.”
That discovery — the skeletal remains of a woman in a nearly disintegrated burlap sack — would be the first of several grisly finds the police would make off Ocean Parkway.
Two days later, Officer Mallia and Blue returned to the area in the morning to help homicide investigators collect evidence. But about 500 feet from the first body, the officer found a second body wrapped in burlap. Officer Mallia made that discovery alone, since Blue was still in the car.

Still not sure it's completely clear the burlap was unequally degraded to the point we (us watching from the outside) can say with certainty that the GB4 were dropped individually or all at once between Sept and Dec of 2010.

 

[Really?]

ok. From what I imagine from the way this conversation is going is that the LISK knew of an impending investigation in this area . So he dumped his stash.....sporadically. DRIVING JUST A LITTLE WAYS,,,,,between each dump To stymee the investigation.

IMO that = somebody involved with Shannan.

Thanks,
Really

 

[fieldnotes]

ok. From what I imagine from the way this conversation is going is that the LISK knew of an impending investigation in this area . So he dumped his stash.....sporadically. DRIVING JUST A LITTLE WAYS,,,,,between each dump To stymee the investigation.

IMO that = somebody involved with Shannan.

Thanks,
Really

If they were dumped in one shot I think that it might be reasonable to conclude it was a person in the area. Not necessarily someone who was involved with Shannan. But there could, in theory, be a certain culture that exists there which seems to use these types of girls. And someone of that culture - in that community - takes it to the level of LISK. This being all hypothetical of course.

And when I say "one shot" that would also cover 4 separate trips that were done between Sept and Dec of 2010.

 

[OnTheCase27]

The nearly disintegrated part makes me believe that 2 of the GB 4 were there for years. I'm not a fabric expert but I think it would take longer than a few months for a burlap sack to disintegrate. Just my opinion.

 

[fieldnotes]

The nearly disintegrated part makes me believe that 2 of the GB 4 were there for years. I'm not a fabric expert but I think it would take longer than a few months for a burlap sack to disintegrate. Just my opinion.

I hear ya. But apparently there is treated burlap and non treated. Non treated doesn't last very long esp in that kind of terrain. I don't know and we prob can't know. All I'm trying to do is keep both opposing theories open in my mind. One of them is right.

 

[fieldnotes]

Here's a very unscientific and unverified account but if you go here:

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-burlap.htm

and scroll down to last comment you'll see the following description to help put it in perspective:

Burlap really does decompose very well. I recently found the remnants of some old burlap potato bags in my backyard, and they were almost gone.
My mother had put the bags out there because she knew that they would return to the earth eventually. After a few rainy weeks and days of hot sunshine, the burlap had already started to turn to dirt.
After a few months, I tugged on a small section of the bag, and only a few fibers pulled up from the earth, followed by dirt that seemed new. I knew that the dirt was mostly made of burlap.