Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

Discussion in 'Holly Bobo' started by Coldpizza, Apr 15, 2015.

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  1. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

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    "What happens if DA plays along and testifies just like the prosecution wants but ZA gets acquitted anyhow? Then DA goes to trial and gets convicted on the basis of his earlier statements he already made to the TBI."

    DA's atty won't let him testify unless he has a deal. The downside is too great, and no upside. And LE won't want to go to trial without a deal to help guarantee he testifies, with testimony they can reasonably predict. But no one can be (or is) asked to guarantee an outcome - all DAs/attys understand the unpredictable nature of trials and juries.
     
  2. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

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    Is he? I don't recall anything at all from him in over a year, and a lot has happened since then. Of course, maybe I missed something in the news. But if not, then imo it's really hard to know what the current approach of DA (or his atty) is, or to characterize what his current claims are.
     
  3. Chainsaw385

    Chainsaw385 New Member

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    You have a valid question.

    It was in an article where one of DA's family members were interviewed.....in which they said LE took advantage of a mentally disabled person and coerced his statements.

    I should have used different wording....I can not say for sure weather DA is now claiming that or not.
     
  4. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

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    Yeah, I think that was the family response when he was arrested. But that was 15 months ago, and a lot has transpired since then. As of now, he may be fully cooperating, or fully not, for all we know.
     
  5. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    <BBM for Focus>

    SteveS, once the unknown suspect/s were identified and apprehended three years later, it would be easy to conclude that HB's abduction was the culmination of a simple plan. Considering the number of law enforcement and other investigative agencies; local, state, and federal, combined with other resources; very large reward, national awareness/ms & social media coverage. A simple plan would have been solved within days or weeks..
    SteveS, the Holly Bobo abduction was not an impulsive simple plan, but a well planned, brazen, and meticulously executed abduction by an organized psychopath and sadistic sexual predator; Zachary Adams, and his soulless gang of meth fueled associates.. jmo
     
  6. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

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    What DA probably said in his original statements, and what he probably will say on the stand, is that he was an incidental observer of events that happened at his brothers house. You are not under obligation to intervene if you observe a criminal act, so that in itself will not incriminate him. But, if JA is acquitted, the state will say that he was there as evidenced by his own statements but that his claims that he was not directly involved in the criminality are lies.

    In JA's trial the cross-examination can't try to claim that he was also involved in criminality because that would be an admission that their own clients were also involved. Instead they will attempt to say that everything DA said was made up. Later on, when DA goes on trial himself, whatever went on in cross examination in the first trial will not affect the second trial. The only thing that would be addressed would be the original evidence in form of statements made by DA to the TBI placing himself at the scene, the findings of the jury in the first trial will not be entered as evidence in the second trial. The only way for DA to avoid being convicted is if JA is first convicted on the basis of his testimony. If that happens the prosecutor can't then say that DA placed himself there but lied about further involvement in HB's death in order to shift blame, because if they did it would mean that they accepted that DA lied in his statements, and that in turn would lead to JA's conviction being overturned. The prosecutor would have to accept that DA's account is truthful, and that would mean that they would have to drop charges or at the very most convict him of obstruction or something like that, which would probably get a sentence of time served.

    As long as DA says the same thing in JA's trial as he said in the original TBI interviews, it doesn't matter because irrespective of what he said on the stand, his original TBI interview still stands as evidence. So he would not be implicating himself anymore than he already has.

    If DA gets up on the stand and says something completely different and denies everything, then when his own trial comes up his TBI interview will be entered into evidence and he will be convicted. So if he testifies, he has to at least repeat what he originally told the TBI. Or go to death row.

    Right now DA isn't claiming anything, statements and claims will come indirectly through his lawyer or family. He can't be impeached on that basis (because it is hearsay, and anything he told his lawyer is privileged). They could say anything they like, but the only thing that will count in court is what DA said in statements to LE and what he says on the witness stand (if he testifies).

    My guess of how all this worked out is that DA originally made a bunch of incriminating statements regarding his brother and friends while the TBI was applying pressure on him, probably in the course of investigating unrelated crimes. This was probably recorded in the form of formal written and/or recorded statements. Then later on when they were talking to him it became clear that he was vacillating and becoming more vague, leading them to believe he potentially could say something completely different on the stand, and that would be a crippling blow to their case if the case was essentially based on his allegations. Charging him with the same crime was a method to get him on the same page as them, and to provide them with a big stick to ensure that he stuck to message. And the sneaky part about it is that even if he did recant it wouldn't matter since if he was charged under the same crimes and stood trial along with the other two, they would not need him on the stand - they could just use his earlier statements as testimony. By splitting the cases they get to use him as a trial witness (which is stronger evidence than the statements alone). So if you look at the progression of events in this case there is a tactical logic in what they are doing.
     
  7. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

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    Respectfully, I have seen absolutely nothing in the facts that we know that requires any meticulous or complex advance planning. This is not using "what we know now" to rewrite events (and in part, because imo we know way less than we think we do). But the question I was responding to, the event highlighted certainly doesn't require anything complex. All it takes would be that one person grabbed her, took her to his vehicle nearby, and drove away.

    And it's human nature to try to make a sequence of events into one that was planned, but more often than we like to think, one thing simply happens, and then that happenstance-ish event leads to another and another and another that just occur as they occur. Say, for example, the wrong obsessive stalkerish drugged-up narcissistic guy stalks the wrong house/person at the terribly ideal time for something impulsive to happen ...

    Let me be clear: I'm not saying that the possibility it could be simple therefore eliminates the possibility there was advanced and careful planning. And if there wasn't advanced meticulous planning before act 1, it doesn't mean that later decisions couldn't have then been done with some thought. But from what we know of act 1, I don't see any real indicator it had to be done either way.

    In addition, the thought that "A simple plan would have been solved within days or weeks" is an assumption I think is very unwarranted. History and law are replete with unplanned events that are able to go unsolved for incredibly long time periods, despite the lack of advanced planning. We like to assume that the lack of a quick solution is a definite indicator of some mastermind, trying to find a cause for the effect, but in reality it simply isn't.
     
  8. OldSteve

    OldSteve Well-Known Member

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    Agree completely - I would add, it would not surprise me if part of his plan (and how I don't know) involved getting the word out quickly to the locals that Holly had just been taken from her home that morning; ensuring the very large turnout of well-meaning people that showed up adding to confusion and diverting LE's attention...
     
  9. Chainsaw385

    Chainsaw385 New Member

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    I don't think you have any idea that some of what DA said in his early statements has been released
    http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...-adams-charged-rape-holly-bobo-case/17251013/

    DA admitted to the forcible rape of Holly Bobo on April 13th 2011 at ZA's house.......there is no probably about that.

    DA can claim that statement was coerced or he was lying .......but he most certainly made it and very likely signed a paper confirming his confession of raping Holly.

    Your whole last post based on the probability that DA never said anything implicating himself is now moot.

    If DA takes the stand against ZA-JA his admission of raping Holly is fair game.......Of course,DA could plead the fifth but the fact he made that statement is going to be entered as evidence.
    But his testimony isn't going to do much good if he only answers some of the question and refuses to answer others.......this is exactly why deals are made.And also why myself and many others have tried to explain to you why DA will not testify without one.
     
  10. Foxfire

    Foxfire New Member

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    SteveS, all of the obvious indicators of a well planned crime were present on the morning that Holly was abducted. It was also obvious that DCSO & HCSO had no pre-established abduction plan in place, or the perp/s would have likely been apprehended and HB rescued on the morning of the abduction, imo..
    It was five days before road blocks were established by DCSO investigators..
     
  11. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    JMO
    Just wanted to add my opinion on their planning or lack thereof. And want to address it backwards. LOL

    I think it is possible that one of the reasons LE did not hone in on ZA is maybe he was working as an informant or maybe he was a past informant or worse. I think we may have discussed this possibility awhile back.

    When we looked at his extensive criminal record and how many "plea deals" he must have made to get such light sentences and be out on the street I think it is very possible he may have been used in some capacity for LE as some type of informant. A deal with the devil may have been made which may have influenced whether he was closely looked at or not in the early parts of the investigation.

    The reason I think this is some things appear to make no sense at all on the surface.

    This town was rather small and there were very limited people to first look at who could have done something like this in that town. Their names would have been well known to LE. So what makes no sense is why his doors weren't bashed in very early on to look for Holly.

    If LE really wanted to, they could have easily gotten a signed warrant to search his house. His criminal history alone was reason enough to get a warrant IMO. They would have found a way to get a signed search warrant if they really wanted to.

    So the mystery is why wasn't he looked at and why wasn't his house searched very early on? Especially when rumors in the town started to fly and I am sure their names came up often.
    And still LE avoided him like the plague. It makes no sense UNLESS he was some sort of informant or past informant OR had some kind of deal with someone. Then all of a sudden it makes a lot of sense why he was not targeted for a house search and some serious questioning. This would be the minimum expected and never happened from what I recall.

    It was only when the pearl arrest happened that LE was forced to look his way. And even then we notice that ZA seemed to not be the main target even in that one. So all things were pointing to him being treated "special" and possibly in cohoots with some LE type.

    Now going to get a real tin foil hat on if we assume there was some kind of relationship.
    Which then begs the question what type of "deal" really was going on there? Was it solely an informant type relationship OR could money have been funneled to someone's pockets. This may seem outlandish at first but take a step back and think about this for a minute.

    Here we had a national high profile kidnap with most likely murder of the most beautiful girl in a small town and some of the main locally known bad guys in town are never seriously looked at until LE is forced to look at them because of an unrelated but very serious Pearl Thieving scheme. It was only because that Pearl Thieving scheme by itself made major local news all on its own that forced LE to take a serious look at these crooks for possibly being involved in Holly's crime.

    Whoever heard of Midwest Land Locked Pearl farming until this case? And why did that case fizzle away?

    I honestly hate to think this but I am forced to consider that the answers to some of these questions could all come back to MONEY and some back dealing that may have went on. If not that, then some sort of past informant relationship between LE and ZA.
     
  12. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    JMO
    To add something that makes me lean towards some kind of deal.
    We have seen signs that the local LE there seem to be "deal happy".

    There was the deal/no-deal with the person that ended up dead in Florida. There was the deal/no-deal/kind of a deal with DA.
    And I have to assume many sentencing deals were made with ZA to be able to be out on the streets with his criminal record.

    So IMO there is evidence that deals are a big tool used in that local jurisdiction.

    It may be common for lots of small jurisdictions to use dealing and plea dealing with their cases. I don't know if it is or isn't. To me it could also be a sign of a lack of competence with being able to handle trying cases in front of a jury. If the DA and the lawyer staff is not very skilled then it seems to me that using deals is one easy way to avoid losing cases or showing lack of skills. I am not sure if that was the case here but I do think the use of deals was widely used in that jurisdiction.
     
  13. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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  14. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

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    1 "all of the obvious indicators of a well planned crime were present on the morning that Holly was abducted."

    Nope. There were none. We can see things went in a certain way, and assume it was all a grand plan to start with A and end with Z an hour or day or week later, but none of the events as they unfolded needed any planning. Just needed an obsessed scumball to drive by the house where his obsession lived, see the mother leave for work, and get the not-so-bright idea to wait for her to come out and grab her. Then walk her to his vehicle, take her to his house, and figure it out from there as he went. Not saying that was how it went down, but nothing that we know says a plan had to have existed before the perp drove to/past the house that morning.

    2 "It was five days before road blocks were established by DCSO investigators."

    That is a fact, perhaps, but doesn't indicate whether or not the perp had a plan when he started events in motion. Although it could be further indication that, unbeknownst to a perp making it up as he goes, a simple impulsive grab-and-go had every reason to be successful without a plan existing.
     
  15. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

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    Haltfield, respectfully, I think you kinda have it backwards in two points in your thinking.

    "If LE really wanted to, they could have easily gotten a signed warrant to search his house. His criminal history alone was reason enough to get a warrant IMO. They would have found a way to get a signed search warrant if they really wanted to."

    Respectfully, it doesn't work like that. The laws regarding search warrants are designed for that very purpose - to keep LE from invading our homes and looking up our butts because they don't like us and wonder or suspect we might be doing something - and that sort of LE activity is part of what sparked the Revolutionary War and led to the Bill of Rights that protects us from such things. And it's a big trap to do an illegal search, since everything you find PLUS everything that flows from everything you find can be ruled inadmissible, and convictions can be set aside.

    The simple truth is that even if they wanted to search, they had to have a SPECIFIC thing(s) to go in and search for, based on a tip, other evidence, and so on. Can't go in on the basis of "we think he might have done this, so we want to look through his house and see if we can find something to back that up." Rumors and suspicion aren't enough. You say they "didn't want to" search, but to me it's way more likely they had been waiting and hoping for a reason to search, but couldn't get one that would give them the legal opening.

    "It was only when the pearl arrest happened that LE was forced to look his way."

    I think it was the other way around. IE I think they had been looking his way all along, and the pearl arrest opened a door for them that they had been looking to open, but was shut.

    The pearl case and direct accusations offered them an opportunity to do a legal search for the pearls. They had testimony from a witness that he had them. So it literally got them in his door, legally.

    From there, imo the following events were all well-planned. With a valid reason to enter and search for the pearls, they had the chance to also observe and keep their eyes open for ANYTHING that might remotely relate to HB, or even for anything that might be described that way, so that they could take those "in plain sight" observations to a judge and get a SW to return to look for Holly and/or for item A-B-C related to the Holly case. As I recall, they arrested ZA for the pearl theft at that point, he admitted he had the pearls and gave them up, giving them further opportunity to go in the home to get the pearls and secure the home as needed while they took him, perhaps making him a casual offer to "work with him" to get what he might need to take to jail, and so on, and all the while keeping their eyes open for anything to validate a Holly-related SW.

    I suspect that the DA tale arose here at some point. It could have preceded the pearl search (in which case, in the pearl search they looked for items in plain sight that, combined with DA's words, would create a legally valid basis to search for this or that). Or perhaps they got DA to talk after the pearl search - "we were in that house, we saw A-B-C, tell us what you know" - and then DA spilled enough to allow a search related to Holly. But either way, I strongly think the pearl search was the opening they had been hoping for, but had never gotten until then.
     
  16. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

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    Very astute observations. But I would add that this makes them like most other places. Too many cases, too few courts, too much iffiness in the system, too few top-notch litigators - add it all together, and making deals is the name of the legal game more often than not. Save the courtroom drama for TV and movies.
     
  17. OldSteve

    OldSteve Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Plea Bargaining - "95% of all criminal cases are resolved through plea bargains" according to:
    http://thepleabargainingblog.blogspot.com/

    Being interesting to see a state-by-state breakdown of plea-bargains... as well as murder cases versus other crimes...
     
  18. Coldpizza

    Coldpizza WS Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    New thread

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