Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #4 ***ARRESTS***

Discussion in 'Holly Bobo' started by nursebeeme, Mar 5, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,989
    Likes Received:
    34,011
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I could see them arresting solely on this persons story only if they got agreement from the person that they would testify to it in court. So if they dont have the tape itself I am assuming this person has agreed to testify to what they saw and heard. The interesting thing will be how the jury feels about what they say and what the defense questions to them will be.

    Questions like
    How do you know for sure the person you saw was Holly?
    How do you know for sure the person you heard was so and so?

    I just dont see that going too well unless there is corroboration from either another witness or the tape itself, which LE could have of course.
     


  2. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,989
    Likes Received:
    34,011
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This may be old news but was thinking about the reward and doing some google searches and came across this news link below. I didnt realize the wording of the reward was changed. Was the wording changed in December of 2013 or was it this way for a long time? Wonder if that had something to do with LE being able to crack this case. 250K is an awful lot of money.
    I know the amount was large for a very long time and just not sure when the actual wording was changed.

    "The previous reward was for Holly's safe return, now it is for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person who abducted her."

    http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Bobo-Reward-Increases-Conditions-Change-236134231.html
     
  3. Mr. Noatak

    Mr. Noatak New Member

    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My opinions only, no facts here:

    The "15 minute conversation" is partly from my Websleuths timeline, posted at http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211069&page=9. Scroll down and there are two consecutive very-long posts that cover the whole story. Regarding my timeline from just before to just after Holly's abduction, my entries are based upon statements attributed to Holly's family, the police/dispatchers, the nearest neighbor, and other reputable witnesses. And there is something else- this happened in the morning when people were leaving for, or arriving at work. The time estimates of these witnesses are likely to be accurate- because people do these things at the same time every day. The very closely-timed entries after 7:50 AM are my estimates only, but look at all of the things that were going on and you will see that you have to allow several minutes for all of these reported events to occur. So yes, it seems likely that 10 to 15 minutes did elapse between the early scream and Holly's brother watching his sister being led into the woods.

    I snipped the relevant portion of my timeline for any of you who have not seen it:

    7:30-7:35 AM: (Holly talked with her mother on the phone, available witness is her mother and presumably the cell phone records). (Based upon my timeline below, Holly’s mother ?must have went to class just after this cell phone call and left her cell phone where her secretary could hear it ring?). This should be a solidly-timed entry.
    ?7:35-7:39 AM?: Holly Bobo should have been gathering her stuff together and getting ready to leave her home during this time period. For example, gathering her purse, cell phone, lunch, and school materials.
    7:39 AM: Newschannel5.com reports that ?a post was made to the Facebook page of the later-to-be-identified ‘main suspect’? who is ultimately arrested for Holly Bobo’s abduction. This Facebook post, if it actually happened, was sinister and derogatory towards an unidentified woman. However, the ‘main suspect’s on-and-off girlfriend at the time claims that ?the ‘main suspect’ was actually referring to her? (and by inference, not Holly Bobo). Ironically, depending upon the location from where this Facebook post originated, it could provide an alibi of sorts for the ‘main suspect’- UNLESS more than one perpetrator is involved. (And I am well aware such theories, including the most recently-proposed “triad” of perpetrators).
    Slightly before or at 7:40 AM: (Holly is going outside to her car which is 10 to 12 feet from the nearest home exit door- possibly at 5 minutes earlier than her usual schedule so as to not miss an important college exam, no available witnesses except the perpetrator). (?Some reports suggest the car was in her long driveway, and other reports suggest it was in a carport?). (Her car was probably in the carport attached to the back of her house, based upon numerous later reports and blogs).
    About 7:40 AM-1st event: (Holly is confronted by the perpetrator near her black Mustang automobile. She drops her can of soda in surprise or because of an immediate physical confrontation. According to officials the mystery perpetrator is likely to be someone who was familiar with her daily schedule). (?It is also said that Holly was led a short distance from the carport back into a semi-enclosed garage?). Holly’s car is said to have been washed four days earlier, so it was now more clean and reflective. It is reported that Holly’s abductor ?may have been hiding around the corner in the carport watching for Holly’s reflection on her car?. In my opinion, these theoretical scenarios hardly make the abductor sound like some random stranger; it seems that the abductor was quite familiar with Holly’s morning schedule, BUT the abductor would have to be unaware that Holly’s brother was still at the house. I mean- would you try to abduct a woman if you believed her brother was still in her home and did not know if he was watching with a gun or whatever?
    About 7:40 AM-2nd event: (Someone screamed in the direction of Holly’s house; male witness to this scream lives in a house ?nearest? to Holly’s home). This male witness is an adult man who lives with his mother. The timing of this entry should be fairly accurate.
    About 7:40 AM-3rd event: (Holly is attacked/restrained in some manner and leaves a small amount of blood on the carport floor; also see later entries). There seems to be very widespread support that blood was found. (My personal opinion- although the perpetrator may have had a firearm, for the sake of silence- a knife was used to commit the abduction and the blood was from Holly being incidentally scratched/cut somewhere OR struck on the face to promote submissiveness).
    ?7:40-7:45 AM?: (The adult male in the neighboring household tells his mother who lives with him about hearing the scream from the direction of the Bobo home). (According to one post I saw, this man ?may have been adding oil to his vehicle at the time of the scream?). (?This might have led to a couple-minute delay in reporting it to his mother?). It has been reported by some that this neighbor woman then called 911, but in my opinion this particular event did not happen.
    ?7:40-7:50 AM?: (The adult male neighbor’s mother tries to call Holly’s mother at work about the scream, witness is school secretary who relays this info to Holly’s mother, who is now in class).
    7:50 AM: Holly’s brother wakes up because his family’s house dog is barking; available witness is himself. Note that I have previously suggested on Websleuths that Holly’s brother may have ?been awakened as early as 7:40 to 7:45 AM?, only because this allows more time for the numerous closely-spaced incidents listed below to occur. However, until shown otherwise, I will treat this as a fairly-accurate time entry. (?It has been claimed that there were two dogs, one inside the house and one tied up or penned outside of the house?). (The latest reports suggest that any dog outside the house was not tied up or penned and was friendly and trusting). In my opinion, it might be worth considering that the family dog outside was already familiar with the scent of the perpetrator from previous experience, but I equally recognize that 9 out of 10 house dogs become submissive when approached by a dominant-behaving male human.
    ?7:51- 7:52 AM?: (Now, looking out of his window, Holly’s brother notices Holly’s car is unexpectedly still there and sees the silhouettes of two people kneeling down by the car; he also hears voices of two people, available witness is himself). (Note that I am confused from various reports about whether the two silhouettes were seen leaning down, kneeling, squatting or sitting). (Most recently the story is that the brother saw Holly and a man kneeling and facing each other and talking. Holly sounded very upset and heated, but most of the talking was being done by the perpetrator. The only words of the conversation the brother could understand was Holly saying- “no, why?”). From Holly’s brother’s witness description, the FBI describes the perpetrator as being 5’ 8” to 6’ 0” tall, weighing 200 pounds, and wearing camouflage clothing.
    ?7:52 – 7:53 AM?: (Holly’s brother calls Holly’s mother who is at work but gets no answer because his mother’s cell phone is not with her, witnesses are himself and his mother’s school secretary). (I want to clarify this statement; it is said that the mother’s phone was in another room in the school). It would seem possible that the school secretary either heard the mother’s cell phone ringing, or Holly’s brother made a second follow-up call to the secretary’s number to get through to Holly’s mother.
    ?7:53 – 7:54 AM?: (Holly’s mother gets the message from the school secretary and calls her son/Holly’s brother who tells his mother about Holly’s car still being there and the two people he saw, available witnesses are son and mother). Relevantly, in the April 30, 2013 WSMV-TV episode, Holly’s mother implies that she did not tell her son at this time about the earlier scream reported by the neighbor manà to his motherà to Holly’s mother. This oversight could have contributed to confusion, whereby Holly’s brother was still somewhat convinced that the strange man was Holly’s boyfriend.
    ?7:54 – 7:56 AM?: (The alarmed mother now calls 911 but is shortly thereafter not satisfied that she talked to the right office, witness is Henderson County dispatch). To date, this is the earliest call to 911 that I can propose. However, in my opinion, I still feel that an earlier (around 7:40 to 7:45 AM) call to 911 by someone would better support the status-quo of my timeline in this case, but such a call is not supported by my personal evaluation of the available evidence.
    ?7:55 – 7:57 AM?: (Holly is viewed from her house by her brother being led towards and/or into the adjacent woods by a man in camouflage clothing; available witness is Holly’s brother). (I have heard rumors of ?specks of blood on the lawn?). It is reported that Holly and her abductor walked at least a short distance down a four-wheeler path to the left of a tree house into the woods with the family dog accompanying them and wagging its tail (?did the dog recognize the scent of the abductor, or was it simply being submissive?). It is also reported that ?Holly’s family theorized that the abductor may have ultimately led Holly from the edge of the woods and back to the main road where a getaway vehicle was parked?. I have supported this latter opinion from the very beginning. In my opinion, nothing else makes sense to me. However, when you read the unofficial reports about the search dogs (later in my timeline), it becomes more confusing. But to be clear about this- in my opinion, nobody witnessed Holly being led out to the main road OR deeply into the woods until out-of-sight; rather Holly’s brother ?saw Holly and the man walking towards a trail/road at the edge of the woods?. Repeating myself, to the best of my knowledge, nobody witnessed Holly and the perpetrator passing out-of-sight into the deep woods. Nor did anybody report a strange vehicle parked in the woods or out on the main road (Swan Johnson) at the time of Holly’s abduction.
     
  4. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    318
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Why would the brother call the mother if he thought Holly was with her boyfriend? That doesn't make sense, unless they considered the boyfriend to be a problem and didn't want him around.

    If he thought she was being molested by a stranger, he would have done something about it immediately, not called his mother.

    The only reasonable explanation for him calling his mother would be if he believed that she was having a secretive meeting with someone the family didn't approve of, but didn't consider it a threat. Under those circumstance you could expect him to report the incident to the mother, but not intervene.

    Then the mother immediately calling the police sounds like odd behaviour as well. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to get people already there to go and intervene? Unless she already knew that something really bad was going down, and therefore needed the cavalry ASAP.

    It sounds to me like Holly was involved with someone, or in something, that they didn't approve of.
     
  5. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    318
    Trophy Points:
    83
    You could do that, but they know Santa doesn't exist, so they would laugh at you. On the other hand, if they were investigating a robbery, and you went to them and said that Y showed you video of X doing it, they most certainly would be paying attention to you, especially if the video you claimed to have seen was the only evidence they would have of X being connected to the robbery.

    It is called a self-fulfilling prophecy. First you have a belief that something happened, but can't prove it. That conditions your mind and you can develop tunnel vision. When someone comes along with some bit of information that reinforces your belief, you jump on it and it assumes exaggerated importance. People have a tendency to not look too closely at the details of that information, because they are focussed on their goal, which is proving their theory, not critically analysing the information provided to them.

    The information this person offers to you becomes very valuable then, something that can be traded. Now, if this person has been observing you, and understands that you have this frustrated belief, it might occur to them to tell you what you want to hear, but it won't be for free, it will be for some favor or other consideration in return. So long as it is impossible to prove that they are lying, they will have you well set on the hook, and they can extract something of real value from you in return for nothing.

    You see this sort of thing happening all the time, it is the basis for the con, and people fall for it over and over.

    My philosophy is that you should always critically question information and data, because most times that information and data is incomplete, is not subject to proper controls, is frequently subjective and often is a simplistic subset of what you really need to know. Pick it apart, hit it on the head with a sledgehammer, if it makes it through that process then maybe it is sound. Never ever, ever just accept something simply because someone else said it.
     
  6. dog.gone.cute

    dog.gone.cute Kyron Horman - Missing Since 6-4-10

    Messages:
    15,569
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Trophy Points:
    113
  7. evelyn24

    evelyn24 cray cray

    Messages:
    2,115
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Wow that's a damn long time for a hearing. Any news on why it was postponed and why the long wait?
     
  8. Carla Lashelle

    Carla Lashelle New Member

    Messages:
    2,216
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0


    IIRC one of the more recent articles or interviews said simply that Clint thought Holly and Drew were breaking up and having an argument/discussion and that he didnt want to butt in so he called his mom to ask her about it. pretty simple really.
     
  9. Mr. Noatak

    Mr. Noatak New Member

    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My opinions only, no facts here:

    To find the "third man" (the actual FBI-described kidnapper), the authorities could revisit male POI's that had frequent interactions with Holly over the past several years (high school, college, church, etc.). This would be following the theory of an involved obsessed stalker. Cases such as this often involve a focused obsessed man, rather than a distantly-associated man (or men) who is angry with societal outcomes in general.
     
  10. Tugela

    Tugela Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    318
    Trophy Points:
    83
    That doesn't sound realistic to me either. Who would do that? If he really thought that, he might mention it when the mom got home from work that evening, but immediately calling her at work??? That is more of a "what the hell should I do now" kind of reaction. Holly having an argument with her boyfriend wouldn't rise to that level. The moms reaction on receiving the call makes it seem like the phone call was of the "what the hell should I do now" variety as well.

    There is something else going on here.
     
  11. SteveS

    SteveS Attention: All my comments are IMO JMO MOO AFAIK e

    Messages:
    3,153
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    To be fair, it's possible that absolutely nothing else is going on at all.

    We all recognize there could be mistakes in the retelling, of course, that account for the weird way it looks now.

    But even if we know exactly what he said, what he did, and nothing was left out, we can't necessarily conclude that there's more to the story.

    Sometimes, people just do stuff that is odd. Stuff that, if you weren't there, it doesn't sound right, yet it's exactly how it happened.

    It's weird sounding that Clint calls mom over something so minor, when he relates it later.
    ...But maybe he's just like that, a major worrier.
    ...Or maybe that's the sort of minor stuff he calls about from time to time, just to tell mom.
    ...Or maybe, that day, he kinda did something weird.
    People do things others don't understand, since we are all unique. And people do stupid things.
     
  12. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,989
    Likes Received:
    34,011
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thats a good point and he supposedly was woken up by the dogs barking and so he was curious that something may have been going on and so if he looked out and saw what he thought was the boyfriend he still may have felt curious enough to try to confirm with his mom because it wasnt expected to him to see anyone there at the home.

    The whole episode that morning is kind of strange though. What bothers me the most is if the reports are accurate and if I remember right, a whole ton of people managed to show up at the home looking for her within hours.

    Unless that family was very popular and had many friends I have a hard time understanding how they got so many people to the house so quickly.
    Most people I know if they put out a call to get help looking for someone, it would take days to get people organized.

    The way I understood the reporting was that people started arriving within hours. How could all those people drop what they were doing in their lives and get over there so quickly. Just seemed so odd to me.

    One possible explanation that I think was given at the time was if the Mom was a member of a school email group where she put out an email that tons of people would get at once. Something like schools have to alert families about school shooters and things like that to alert parents of children about danger at the school. That could explain it if that happened. We didnt hear about anything like that, but I could see that happening which may explain how so many people arrived.

    She was reported to have made a lot of phone calls to others to ask them to come and help. That was reported because I remember seeing that report. Its just hard to think that phone calls alone got so many people over there so quickly.

    They were lucky to get so much support so fast and I am glad for that. Unfortunately it didnt help catch the perps.
     
  13. Indy Anna

    Indy Anna Unknown Member

    Messages:
    4,985
    Likes Received:
    3,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BBM 1.) IMO, Clint called KB after seeing Holly and the perp in the carport and hearing the perp speak heatedly because of a gut feeling something was off. He assumed that the perp was Holly's BF and didn't want to make a big deal over a romantic spat, yet sensed something more. He wanted to see if his mother knew what was going on between Holly and her BF. Just MOO.

    BBM 2.) A lot of people in the community may have police scanners. I've known several people in rural communities who have them. I guess it gives them a sense of connection with others in the community and if they were to hear that someone was abducted, they would be terribly concerned. I could imagine many of them dropping what they were doing/taking off work to go help.
     
  14. OldSteve

    OldSteve Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,946
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Respectfully snipped
    What you mention is something that seemed odd to me as well, and I mentioned that in various threads, along with a Governor becoming involved in the initial reward of 80,000 (IIRC) as unusual.

    Also, adding to that, the quick arrival of multiple LE agencies that resulted in confusion as to what exactly to do...
     
  15. reedus23

    reedus23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,511
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    48
    If I remember correctly, he had called his mom because he saw her car and called because he thought she had a test and should have left so he called to ask if she was supposed to have left already.
     
  16. Myvice

    Myvice Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    1,855
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A little OT but an example of how word spreads in a small town.

    We had a gentleman that owned a steakhouse in our small town go missing while hunting. It was noticed at 6AM when he failed to meet up with a friend.

    Within a short time there were numerous searchers and a lunch was served to the searchers by noon. This all happened about 6 miles outside the town proper and lunch was served at the site. It was cold and windy that day, but it small communities people rely on each other.

    Sorry for OT.
     
  17. mmiles1003

    mmiles1003 New Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If I recall correctly, mom knew that Hollys BF was NOT in the general area. ( I think he was off hunting somewhere ) so when her brother called & said Holly & her BF are outside arguing, mom got panicked because she knew that it couldnt have been the bf.
    I can't find the link for this, I just remember reading it in one of the first few threads. It was also when the media were all reporting different things.
     
  18. Morag

    Morag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Don't leave us hanging, Myvice! Did they find him?
     
  19. Morag

    Morag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Why didn't he just open the door and ask Holly what was up? I could never figure that out.
     
  20. Indy Anna

    Indy Anna Unknown Member

    Messages:
    4,985
    Likes Received:
    3,188
    Trophy Points:
    113
    <snipped>
    http://www.wsmv.com/story/22123465/holly-bobos-brother-tells-his-side-of-the-story
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice