I believe the Ramseys are innocent.

ICU said...
I did not know that Burk was so violent, does he have a history of violence...
Judith Phillips's daughter, who was a friend of JonBenet's, reminisced in a memorial letter to JonBenet about Burke chasing JonBenet and her when they bugged him while he was playing video games. She said that he would get very angry at them and on one such occasion, they had to run into a bathroom to escape him. They locked the door while Burke stood on the other side, shouting and pounding on the door with his fists.


ICU went on to add...
has he been known to torture small animals and set fires, has he been seen around the neighborhood as a peeping tom, any police records of arrest for breaking and entering in the night, robbery and rape.
I surmise the peeping tom bit you mentioned indicates you think peeping into bedroom windows would be the only way a boy two weeks shy of his tenth birthday could know about sex. Pretty naive, if that's what you think.

As for torturing animals, I've never heard that he did, although I don't think Jacque appreciated Burke leading him around the house using a garotte-type device, which was apparently mentioned by one of the housekeepers.

Setting fires? Breaking and entering? Robbery? What are you talking about? From a BDI perspective, or even a PDI or JDI perspective, none of that has anything to do with what happened that night. In fact, I've never read an IDI theory that includes the intruder setting a fire at the Ramseys' or robbing them. (Robbing them? Geez, he didn't even take the body.)

imo
 
Stopping short of aliens from another planet, I think we maybe ought to experiment with branching out a bit.

In one of the first books, probably Schiller's, we're told John and some of the friends went walking out toward the hills, and Patsy or her sister said something about "We didn't mean for it to go this far," as if someone had borrowed JonBenet, maybe to experience a Celtic ceremony, as web searches reveal they do still have them?

What if she was killed way out there, brought back in and all this staging done to pin it on the parents, and/or maybe, as some speculated in the Chandra case, there might be a madman with gov't immunity, skilled at getting other people set up, and the R's knew all about him, as did lawyers, maybe since the Dallas JFK murder? I read in one of the early books that about 25 or 30 witnesses were told something would be pinned on them if they testified, and that they'd at least be labelled prostitutes, drunks, etc.
Within a decade, I think at least 25 of the witnesses had died, correct?

Konformist.com used to have a "Daddy's Little Princess" thread about CIA connections, masonic CIA I guess, and at one of these forums (okay, fora? I had 2 yrs of latin) didn't we discuss the new Denver International Airport with an underground art gallery, pictures of women in coffins, one a child that some thought resembled JonBenet?

Sure, the R's probably know who did it, but if it were our loved one, would we dare name the all-powerful, world-class all powerful, and expect to live, much less run for office? This 5th person that a lot of us intuitively believe existed may not have actually been anywhere near the house, maybe is related to Charles Manson or some other family of sociopaths, murdering by proxy, elaborate detailed schemes like having the walker that Barnhill observed go into the house and turn off that usual all-night outside light?

Barnhill changed his testimony, may have found out something frightening, and wouldn't say anymore, and we're not suspecting him. The perp(s) may get senile or something and slip up.


As I've shared in years past, ad nauseum, there's to be a person revealed eventually who's enabled by Satan, some of you will deny exists, and we don't need to argue that here. For those of us who do believe, this person probably could perfectly imitate Patsy's writing. A lot of people may know of him. Even Congressmen, in the Chandra case. Believe me, you would not just blurt out who, until he does get caught, and holy prophecy says "NONE SHALL HELP HIM". (Daniel 7. Three of his henchmen are all still alive to be punished when the Ancient of Days retakes the throne, so they are not ancient kingdoms as we may have been told in Sunday School in our youth. Some of these things aren't meant to be understood until they happen. And we've discussed that it's just leaving no stone unturned, not self-righteousness if we bring up these reminders we're all supposed to know.) In the Patricia Letters, at one point she says this phone character sounds "not of this world". I "may" recognize a 3-word phrase he was said to have used, and can certainly believe he's not entirely of this world but from the pit. He's "the accuser" of the saints, in religion circles, and just recently probably caused some TV preacher to say an incredibly crude and inappropriate thing, "Keep your underwear on." That was going to be the title of a sermon! You just don't talk about underwear in God's house! The fact "the accuser" can mind-control like that, bowl people over, proves he's a sociopath as Scott Peterson may not be. I have no opinion about him. Just fwiw. Not aliens, but close to that?

I think the R's know a lot, if not everything, but have to wait until he's caught to say anything. Can't we all see it could happen to anyone?

Sure the pageants may have been a trigger. I think this person hates beauty queens, if I "may" know him, hated his mother, may be responsible for the mural of the women in coffins, and the blond child. I'm confused as we all are, but I don't think it was the family. There's more things in our world than we'll ever dream of until they may be revealed. Who knows, Ramsey might even be able to help get some laws changed or something, which the perp may have been doing for half a century, getting gays to come out, abortion legalized, etc. Just speculating like everyone, and I respect all opinions but aren't we tired of rehashing the same old things?
 
ICU said:
Newtv you seem to me as someone with an open mind, even though the hawks here think that you are trying to discredit there beliefs that the Ramseys are guilty.
Hawks? lol... and here I thought we were just a buncha beer-can-collectors. Have we been promoted?

I did not know that Burk was so violent, does he have a history of violence, has he been known to torture small animals and set fires, has he been seen around the neighborhood as a peeping tom, any police records of arrest for breaking and entering in the night, robbery and rape.
Such drama! Well he did bash JonBenet in the face with a golf club, didn't he? Sounds violent to me. Oh, was that an accident? Okay. Could there have been another accident, one that proved (almost) fatal? No drama necessary. It could have been a simple accident followed by a melodramatic coverup by two self-serving narcissists who just wanted to get on with their lives and who, as John put it, wanted their life back. Burke had nothing to do with the coverup even if he was the perp (which IMO he wasn't).
 
"Honeybee, where are you getting your information?"

Not making it up as I go along for sure. Two of the "experts" you cite backed out when it got time to fish or cut bait.

No one has ever said that PR definitely wrote the note. The say they can't exclude her. That does not mean she wrote it, get it? They can't exclude her. If you have any statement that doesn't equivacate, that says "Patsy Ramsey wrote the note" bring it on. Until then, I know what I know. And I know you can't.
 
lol IVY (hawk) thanks for the remimder, I did say hawk. you are sharp.
So whats the vote Yea or nay?

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
All that time spent in the house is a rush for an intruder. In most cases the killer would say that the excitement is almost getting caught.

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
I'll vote.....

Yea.

Only because I've witnessed first hand how productive a forum can be without rehashing seven years worth of discussion/disagreements.

The Score is 1 to Nothing - majority rules!


Thank you River Rat. ICU


____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
Jayelles said:
I'm intrigued at your analogy of hawks and doves. You call the posters here hawks and yourself a dove yet in the bird world, hawks are a considerably higher species than doves. Hawks are very highly intelligent and free-thinking birds whose behaviour will adapt to a changing environment. Doves OTOH are most renowned for their homing instinct only. They are programmed with that one piece of information and will endeavour at all times to carry it out regardless of any changing circumstances they may find themselves in.

Hawks are considered dangerous because of their cunning and intellect. Doves are considered by many to be stupid birds which fall into traps and which strut around pecking at nothing in particular.

I guess the regular members here should be flattered!


So I take this as a yea vote. Thank you Jayelles

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
Cut out the personal attack posts.

There is no way I will wade through 11 pages of post to edit it all...
 
Barbara said:
It was just a page ago in your posts you were complimentary to this forum and its posters.

Now you have resorted to "hawks", "witch hunt", and other assorted insults. Why is that? Why would you ask for a "vote" as to whether or not you should stay?

A word of advice: While this forum has all POVs, the majority, I admit are of the Ramsey guilt mindset. If I have missed some posts that have called you names, please show me them. Otherwise, my advice is to stop the name calling and the "witch hunt" type phrasing.

It can get ugly in here at times, but it seems to me you have started it with your less than flattering usage of terms for those of us here who believe the Ramseys are involved in a murder.

It also appears that you have become less than enamoured of this forum and if that is the case you don't need us to vote at all. If you feel this forum is full of witches and such, I would think you wouldn't want to be here. So the decision is actually yours to make.

For me, I wouldn't stay at a forum full of witches and hawks and such if I felt that way. If you can't stay here and discuss without the name calling, then I suggest you find a place where you will be more comfortable. If you can refrain from name calling, then your posts are and will continue to be welcome.

The decision is yours to make, not ours (unless you really get nasty and then it will be solely the administrator's decision, like it or not)

:)

Thank you Barbara,
You were the first here to welcome me aboard and I thank you. Wither you vote or not, I know you better than you think. Old friend. I’ll take a yea from you. I’m loosing faster than a man on fire here.

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
Shylock said:
Gee, according to you a kid has to be an axe murderer before he can pick up a baseball bat and swing it. Yea, maybe your view of life is just a little too simplistic to be posting here. At the very least, your thinking has nothing to do with reality.

It is a real honor to be addressed by someone who thinks he knows reality better than anyone else. Another Yea.

Thank you ICU

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
Goodbye all,
It was fun and I do not take it personal from anyone here, it was my decision for the vote and the yea have it. Good luck on the Ramsey case. When I first came on board the Ramsey forum hardly had a heart beat to it, now it is racing faster than Sea Biscuit ever did.
I have to go back to England for my forum and investigation team. It has been a real pleasure discussing this case with all here. Just remember that life has a twist in it, not everything we see or hear is what it seems. Evidence and facts sometimes warp and distort, in other words smoke and mirrors. I will exit from this Forum and never return. That is the promise I made and intend to keep.

ICU

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
First of all, I'm really not sure what you are talking about. However:-

When I first came on board the Ramsey forum hardly had a heart beat to it, now it is racing faster than Sea Biscuit ever did.

As I recall, when you first posted on this board, we had recently recovered from a crash - one of several. The board was quiet because of that and because there wasn't a lot of case news. This has always been a busy discussion forum - apart from the periods immediately following crashes.
 
ICU said:
Thank you Barbara,
You were the first here to welcome me aboard and I thank you. Wither you vote or not, I know you better than you think. Old friend. I’ll take a yea from you. I’m loosing faster than a man on fire here.

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO

Okay, now I'm intrigued. I can only assume that you are from the old Shesherre board, and I have narrowed the list down. Is there any particular reason you can't share who you are? Even in PM?

BTW, this is not an election. There has never been anyone welcomed or dismissed from the forum based on a "group vote". Why are you doing this?
 
Ivy said:
Judith Phillips's daughter, who was a friend of JonBenet's, reminisced in a memorial letter to JonBenet about Burke chasing JonBenet and her when they bugged him while he was playing video games. She said that he would get very angry at them and on one such occasion, they had to run into a bathroom to escape him. They locked the door while Burke stood on the other side, shouting and pounding on the door with his fists.



I surmise the peeping tom bit you mentioned indicates you think peeping into bedroom windows would be the only way a boy two weeks shy of his tenth birthday could know about sex. Pretty naive, if that's what you think.

As for torturing animals, I've never heard that he did, although I don't think Jacque appreciated Burke leading him around the house using a garotte-type device, which was apparently mentioned by one of the housekeepers.

Setting fires? Breaking and entering? Robbery? What are you talking about? From a BDI perspective, or even a PDI or JDI perspective, none of that has anything to do with what happened that night. In fact, I've never read an IDI theory that includes the intruder setting a fire at the Ramseys' or robbing them. (Robbing them? Geez, he didn't even take the body.)

imo

Ivy,
I was just exaggerating about Burke, because of the people thinking that he could do what he did to his sister. Peeping Toms and setting fires, cruelty to animals are traits of a serial killer, I knew that Burke did not do that, I was just exaggerating to show how foolish it was to think Burke did it. It is always easy to find guilt than to find innocence. And as for Burke chasing his sister into the bathroom, If you have a brother and you irritate him, he probably may have said that he wanted to kill you and chase you into the bathroom and pound on the door yelling at you, it happens in most homes when you have brothers and sisters or brothers and brothers, it does not mean that he will actually kill you, a lot of that is just kids learning to get along and not loose their tempers, it is part of growing up. Don’t try to read too much into that as evidence of Burke’s guilt.

ICU

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
Barbara said:
Okay, now I'm intrigued. I can only assume that you are from the old Shesherre board, and I have narrowed the list down. Is there any particular reason you can't share who you are? Even in PM?

BTW, this is not an election. There has never been anyone welcomed or dismissed from the forum based on a "group vote". Why are you doing this?

Barbara,
This is my last reply, and I really have to leave. Yes I know that I can still get on board from abroad but a promise is a promise. I belong to a team of devoted individuals, which consist of 13, we investigate the cold cases, which come from family members that believe that the case is stagnating and may never be solved. We have members from all parts of the world, they are not know widely because of the demands on us. I know more about the Ramsey case than I can reveal on this forum, so you can imagine the frustration of not being able to discuss it, I can only create debates and try to stimulate thought, this is just to frustrating for me. Barbara you are closer to the answer than you think, all I can say is you need just a little tweaking to your thoughts and It will become real clear to you. I’m sorry I cannot tell you more than that. Goodbye Old Friend.

ICU

____________________________________________________
”He who angers you, controls you!” (Unknown author)
IMO
 
ICU said:
Barbara,
This is my last reply, and I really have to leave. Yes I know that I can still get on board from abroad but a promise is a promise. I belong to a team of devoted individuals, which consist of 13, we investigate the cold cases, which come from family members that believe that the case is stagnating and may never be solved. We have members from all parts of the world, they are not know widely because of the demands on us. I know more about the Ramsey case than I can reveal on this forum, so you can imagine the frustration of not being able to discuss it, I can only create debates and try to stimulate thought, this is just to frustrating for me. Barbara you are closer to the answer than you think, all I can say is you need just a little tweaking to your thoughts and It will become real clear to you. I’m sorry I cannot tell you more than that. Goodbye Old Friend.

ICU


Gee, and I thought the case was frustrating! Could you possibly be a little more cryptic??? :) (But since you know me so well, you probably knew I would say that)

I remember commenting on the book written by those you describe. However, as I am on my way out, the name of the group escapes me, but anyway, thanks for the intrigue and have a safe trip.
 
Barbara said:
Gee, and I thought the case was frustrating! Could you possibly be a little more cryptic??? :) (But since you know me so well, you probably knew I would say that)

I remember commenting on the book written by those you describe. However, as I am on my way out, the name of the group escapes me, but anyway, thanks for the intrigue and have a safe trip.

Stillwater.
 
ICU said:
When I first came on board the Ramsey forum hardly had a heart beat to it, now it is racing faster than Sea Biscuit ever did.

LOL... Goodbye ICU or Horace Mills. :crazy:
 

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