IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

[Foxfire]

Hello everyone! I have a question and the answer may lie on Kathlynn's thread, but my computer is running on one leg today so I was hoping someone might have the answer on the girls' thread: Do we know if Kathlynn was sexually assaulted? All I remember reading was that she suffered sharp and blunt force trauma to the head. He was a strange bird for sure.

Hi Bunnyhop! It's good to be reading here again!

Bootsctr, imo, based on Klunder's past sexual assaults since the age of 16. I don't remember reading where any of his victim's being sexually assaulted/raped or sodomized. Imo, it is curious as to why he separated KP & DH once he arrived at the hog barn.



<sniped & BBM>
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/08/missing-iowa-girl-shepard/2403039/


Gerard Meyers of the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation said Boone County dispatchers received a call from people fishing at 6:59 p.m. about a body in the river underneath the Kate Shelley High Bridge near Boone.

"We believe it to be Kathlynn Shepard," Meyers said at a news conference at the Boone Police Station just after midnight. He said the clothing was consistent with what Shepard was wearing when she was abducted,
Police would not comment on the cause of death or whether the person had been sexually assaulted. The investigation continues, Meyers said.

Chief State Medical Examiner Dr. Julia Goodin said Sunday that Kathlynn's death was a homicide and that she died of "multiple sharp and blunt force injuries."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/0...hat-missing-teen-abducted-from/#ixzz2YTJshIVM

 

[Foxfire]

And I don't see any indications so far (from LE) that Lizzie and Lyric were sexually assaulted either.

The only reason any of that has been mentioned is because of Drew and his crusades against RSO...nothing from LE has indicated that they are looking for a sexual predator.

threecrazykids, what other kind of child predator is there?
Imo, MJ Klunder's MO doesn't include sexual assault in the conventional manner. In his first assault at age 16, when the victim regained consciousness, she was still wearing her pants. Her top was removed and she was bruised and cut around her chest area. She also had head injuries from being pistol whipped...but there was no mention of being sexually assaulted..

I would luv to see his juvenile and psychological evaluation records..

 

[Bootsctr]

threecrazykids, what other kind of child predator is there?
Imo, MJ Klunder's MO doesn't include sexual assault in the conventional manner. In his first assault at age 16, when the victim regained consciousness, she was still wearing her pants. Her top was removed and she was bruised and cut around her chest area. She also had head injuries from being pistol whipped...but there was no mention of being sexually assaulted..

I would luv to see his juvenile and psychological evaluation records..

Exactly! It seems none of his victims that we are aware of were sexually assaulted, yet, he is a RSO. I would like to see his juvenile and psychological evaluation records too. I think LE is obviously having a hard time placing him in Evansdale last year at the time of the girls' disappearance. The more time that passes w/o Klunder being named as responsible for their deaths, the more I fear that person or persons still roam free as a bird. :banghead:

 

[Bootsctr]

And I don't see any indications so far (from LE) that Lizzie and Lyric were sexually assaulted either.

The only reason any of that has been mentioned is because of Drew and his crusades against RSO...nothing from LE has indicated that they are looking for a sexual predator.

It seems like if LE knew for sure or not if the girls were sexually assaulted, LE would have at least released that information and be warning the public that a sexual predator was still out there, but nothing LE has said leads me to believe it was a sex offender, registered or otherwise. Like you say, it is only the Collins saying sexual predator. I feel now that the girls bodies were too deteriorated for ME to make that determination. Gee, it's almost July 13th again and we're back where we started.... no suspect, no leads, no clues, no justice. :scared:

 

[threecrazykids]

threecrazykids, what other kind of child predator is there?Imo, MJ Klunder's MO doesn't include sexual assault in the conventional manner. In his first assault at age 16, when the victim regained consciousness, she was still wearing her pants. Her top was removed and she was bruised and cut around her chest area. She also had head injuries from being pistol whipped...but there was no mention of being sexually assaulted..

I would luv to see his juvenile and psychological evaluation records..

I have no reason to believe (yet) that there is a "predator" involved at all. People kill children for reasons other than a sexual basis.

Like SS has said all along...it's about what the murderer has to gain that drives the motive.

And that motive doesn't have to be sexual just because there is a child who is murdered.

 

[Foxfire]

I have no reason to believe (yet) that there is a "predator" involved at all. People kill children for reasons other than a sexual basis.

Like SS has said all along...it's about what the murderer has to gain that drives the motive.

And that motive doesn't have to be sexual just because there is a child who is murdered.

RE: And that motive doesn't have to be sexual just because there is a child who is murdered.

No, threecrazykids, but when you have another pair of girls similarily abducted 80 miles away, ten months later, by a convicted predator with ties to the Evansdale & Bremer Co., IA, area which had previously abducted a pair of girls two decades ago.. It would be logical to conclude that MJ Klunder had motive..imo
Well, where there is smoke, there is usually fire... In MJ Klunder's case, there's not only fire, but
a conflagration, imo..

 

[threecrazykids]

RE: And that motive doesn't have to be sexual just because there is a child who is murdered.

No, threecrazykids, but when you have another pair of girls similarily abducted 80 miles away, ten months later, by a convicted predator with ties to the Evansdale & Bremer Co., IA, which had previously abducted a pair of girls two decades ago.. It would me logical to conclude that MJ Klunder had motive..imo
Well, where there is smoke, there is fire...

:seeya:

Well...you will be able to tell me "I told ya so" when they announce that MK is also responsible for Lizzie and Lyric's murders then, I guess.

Until then, I'm going to continue to be open to other people being responsible for their murder.

No offense meant, I just don't agree with you that MK is the guy.

I will gladly bend over and take a kick to the rear though if you're right. :blushing:

 

[georger]

In all of the pics of 7 bridges, I didn't once see a dog. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but my guess is that they figured a dog prob isn't going to find a scent trail 5 months later.

They figgered.

HOW DO THEY KNOW!

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


JUST FOLLOW PROTOCOLS!!!!! MAYBE SOMETHING WILL TURN UP!
YOU DONT KNOW TIL YOU TRY!

Maybe they figgered WRONG! Maybe that's the whole problem?

Apparently, somebody has pulled off the Perfect Crime - with no evidence of anything.
I dont know WHY the perp even bothered to take the bodies out to 7-Bridges. He could
just as well have left them on Main Street in front of the Molahla Hotel while the crowd
drained the lake with full TV coverage hanging up ribbons following the social angle!

The perp is a genius!

 

[Bootsctr]

They figgered.

HOW DO THEY KNOW!

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


JUST FOLLOW PROTOCOLS!!!!! MAYBE SOMETHING WILL TURN UP!
YOU DONT KNOW TIL YOU TRY!

Maybe they figgered WRONG! Maybe that's the whole problem?

Apparently, somebody has pulled off the Perfect Crime - with no evidence of anything.
I dont know WHY the perp even bothered to take the bodies out to 7-Bridges. He could
just as well have left them on Main Street in front of the Molahla Hotel while the crowd
drained the lake with full TV coverage hanging up ribbons following the social angle!

The perp is a genius!

I agree. They should have taken dogs. I watched an old episode of New Detectives where they brought in scent dogs. They were blood hounds so maybe they were cadaver dogs. Anyhoo, they found this lady's car who was missing in a parking lot not too far from her home. It had been several weeks at least since she had been missing. The dogs tracked the woman's scent back to her home and then to the neighbor's home who was eventually convicted in her murder. I was pretty amazed at what these dogs did. It also was along a busy highway that they were able to track the scent. I don't think the perp is a genius. Just very lucky! They should have taken dogs. Who knows what else the dogs could have found?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

In all of the pics of 7 bridges, I didn't once see a dog. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but my guess is that they figured a dog prob isn't going to find a scent trail 5 months later. Not one that is going to lead to a killer. However, I wonder if a scent dog WAS used, if it would possibly be able to follow a scent trail from where the bodies were dropped to maybe where a weapon was hid.

Grainne would need to help us answer that one (as to whether a dog could follow any trail after 5 months of time, and element changes).

Thanks! <BLUSH>

The answer would be a big NO. A human remains detection dog would be able to hit on body parts that had been scattered by scavenger activity but the trail of the perpetrator is long gone.

There have been handlers who claim that their dogs can follow tracks that are months old but investigation of those claims has shown them to be false. Sometimes it was self-delusional in that the handler believed the dog could do it and subconsciously cued the dog to go where the handler throught the trail went. In a few cases, the intent was criminal fraud.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

threecrazykids, what other kind of child predator is there?
Imo, MJ Klunder's MO doesn't include sexual assault in the conventional manner. In his first assault at age 16, when the victim regained consciousness, she was still wearing her pants. Her top was removed and she was bruised and cut around her chest area. She also had head injuries from being pistol whipped...but there was no mention of being sexually assaulted..

I would luv to see his juvenile and psychological evaluation records..

Speaking in general, I have read more than once that it is uncommon but not rare for a perpetrator to be impotent during an assault. He derives his satisfaction from controlling and "playing" with the victim against their will, then uses the memories to fuel his fantasies afterwards.

Some such predators use objects to penetrate the victim, some don't attempt penetration at all. Such perps tend to be sadistic.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

They figgered.

HOW DO THEY KNOW!

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


JUST FOLLOW PROTOCOLS!!!!! MAYBE SOMETHING WILL TURN UP!
YOU DONT KNOW TIL YOU TRY!

Maybe they figgered WRONG! Maybe that's the whole problem?

Apparently, somebody has pulled off the Perfect Crime - with no evidence of anything.
I dont know WHY the perp even bothered to take the bodies out to 7-Bridges. He could
just as well have left them on Main Street in front of the Molahla Hotel while the crowd
drained the lake with full TV coverage hanging up ribbons following the social angle!

The perp is a genius!

BBM

The oldest confirmed track ever followed was somewhere between one and two weeks old. Far, far shorter than five months. As I recall, it was a desert track, so a lot fewer animals and other humans moving through the area.

Frankly, if they had put a tracking dog out there when Elizabeth and Lyric were found, I believe it would have discredited the entire investigation.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thanks! <BLUSH>

The answer would be a big NO. A human remains detection dog would be able to hit on body parts that had been scattered by scavenger activity but the trail of the perpetrator is long gone.

There have been handlers who claim that their dogs can follow tracks that are months old but investigation of those claims has shown them to be false. Sometimes it was self-delusional in that the handler believed the dog could do it and subconsciously cued the dog to go where the handler throught the trail went. In a few cases, the intent was criminal fraud.

Thanks Grainne Dhu! I trust your knowledge over that of a TV show that may not be totally on the up and up. Maybe dogs were brought in if body parts were scattered. Thanks again for being so knowledge about dogs and their role in victim recovery.

 

[Bootsctr]

Speaking in general, I have read more than once that it is uncommon but not rare for a perpetrator to be impotent during an assault. He derives his satisfaction from controlling and "playing" with the victim against their will, then uses the memories to fuel his fantasies afterwards.

Some such predators use objects to penetrate the victim, some don't attempt penetration at all. Such perps tend to be sadistic.

BBM - makes me think of poor little Sandra Cantu and her perp - Melissa ? - her last name fails me at the moment.

I think Klunder was sadistic. In everything that we do know about him and his past attacks, they were vicious and not necessarily sexual at the time he attacked. Ugh! Truly a monster! My problem with Klunder is that he almost fell into our lap. Too easy. I have no problem placing him in Evansdale, but apparently LE is not making that connection so easily - and they know more than we do. Hopefully, they will let us know how Klunder was ruled out . . . if he is.

 

[SapphireSteel]

SapphireSteel - RE: Lowery is not LE

Prior to accepting his current position as the Executive Director of the Missing Children's Division for the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children Bob Lowery served over 30 years in public service, over 27 of those years as a law enforcement officer.

sbm

Exactly. He's not LE. He is not part of the Investigation...no matter how long his resume is.

 

[SapphireSteel]

RE: And that motive doesn't have to be sexual just because there is a child who is murdered.

No, threecrazykids, but when you have another pair of girls similarily abducted 80 miles away, ten months later, by a convicted predator with ties to the Evansdale & Bremer Co., IA, area which had previously abducted a pair of girls two decades ago.. It would be logical to conclude that MJ Klunder had motive..imo
Well, where there is smoke, there is usually fire... In MJ Klunder's case, there's not only fire, but
a conflagration, imo..

It's an obvious connection.

Except, it's not. The profoundly disorganised Klunder is nowhere near this crime.

LE know that already. :twocents:

 

[Foxfire]

It's an obvious connection.

Except, it's not. The profoundly disorganised Klunder is nowhere near this crime.

LE know that already. :twocents:

SS, we really don't know that much about MJ Klunder, at this time to say that he was disorganized, imo. We can base our opinions on available information and come to our own conclusions as to his traits, motives, etc. Imo, there is much more that we don't know about him, than we do know at this juncture...

At least there is some hope of getting answers from the evidence gathered from crime scenes in Dayton & Evansdale, IA, that has been sent to the FBI crime lab in Quantico, VA.

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/...ansdale-cases-headed-to-fbi-crime-lab/article

Evidence in Dayton, Evansdale cases headed to FBI crime lab

Some of the evidence gathered from crime scenes in Dayton and Evansdale is being sent to the FBI crime lab for analysis, a state official said Friday.

 

[Foxfire]

Exactly! It seems none of his victims that we are aware of were sexually assaulted, yet, he is a RSO. I would like to see his juvenile and psychological evaluation records too. I think LE is obviously having a hard time placing him in Evansdale last year at the time of the girls' disappearance. The more time that passes w/o Klunder being named as responsible for their deaths, the more I fear that person or persons still roam free as a bird. :banghead:

Imo, the person responsible for L & L's & K & D's abductions has met his maker.
Imo, MJK, was very vindictive and was on a payback mission to the justice system for his 20 year prison sentence and multiple parole denials..

Imo, if a thorough investigation is completed of the missing persons cold cases within his geographical hunting area since his release. A few more cases may be solved, imo.

What secrets did MJK intentionally take to the grave with him?

 

[georger]

BBM

The oldest confirmed track ever followed was somewhere between one and two weeks old. Far, far shorter than five months. As I recall, it was a desert track, so a lot fewer animals and other humans moving through the area.

Frankly, if they had put a tracking dog out there when Elizabeth and Lyric were found, I believe it would have discredited the entire investigation.

:rockon: And if the perp had just been there hours before the bodies were found, just checking on things?

 

[georger]

Thanks! <BLUSH>

The answer would be a big NO. A human remains detection dog would be able to hit on body parts that had been scattered by scavenger activity but the trail of the perpetrator is long gone.

How do you know the perp is "long gone"? Maybe the perp has been back
50 times! Maybe the perp lives there! Maybe the perp is a neighbor! Maybe
the perp knows more about what's happening by the hour than you or LE
do!

The perp has a distinct advantage. HE IS THE PERP! You etal are spectators.

:banghead: