Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #37

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by bessie, Jun 22, 2014.

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  1. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    Yes four years a killer has remained free it is very unjust indeed and it makes you angry. I wonder if the perp will decide to hunt for their next victim around this time it is unusual four years have past and to our knowledge they haven't struck. Happy Independence Day Cindersoot it is nice to see you again.
     
  2. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    I'm not sure I do remember unless you're talking about the bicyclist (I do not want to name him because, as I understand it, he suffered quite a bit of gossip and online attacks that really affected him emotionally).
     
  3. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    WS verified law enforcement poster RichKelly posted earlier in this thread that, statistically, most perpetrators who abduct, sexually assault and murder children are not serial killers. RichKelly speculated that the perp in this case probably feels really bad about what he did rather than satisfied or proud.

    I'm reminded of what is going on in the Jacob Wetterling case. An official person of interest has been named, Danny Heinrich. At the time Jacob Wetterling was abducted, there had been a series of attacks on boys ages 11 to 15 in a nearby town. Unfortunately, the statute of limitations for those crimes has expired but law enforcement had retained the forensic evidence gathered in one of the cases. That case was definitively linked to Danny Heinrich via DNA. Because the two crimes have been thought to be linked for so long, LE got a search warrant for Heinrich's residence, where they found over 100 photos of child porn kept in binders. Heinrich has been charged with possession of child pornography and will probably go to trial in the fall. The victim who was linked to him via DNA has filed a civil suit, mostly to try to get information on behalf of the Wetterlings, since there is no possibility of criminal charges in his own case.

    It appears that Heinrich stopped sexually assaulting boys after Jacob Wetterling was abducted. Or at least, no one can find any evidence that Heinrich continued to sexually assault boys after that time although he clearly continued criminal activity relating to children via child porn. Assuming that Heinrich was indeed the perp in Jacob Wetterling's abduction, it suggests that Heinrich stopped directly assaulting victims although he did continue to participate in the victimisation of children at a remove.

    If the perp who killed Lyric and Elizabeth did so because he panicked or felt he had no choice, it could be that he has stopped directly assaulting children. He might well have child porn but many people who have child porn justify it to themselves by thinking that the photographer is the one who really assaulted the child so there's no further harm to that child if they look at those images (which is completely inaccurate).

    So now I wonder if the perp might be caught someday through possessing and/or distributing child porn but escape suspicion in the girls' case.
     
  4. KayElJay

    KayElJay Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    http://www.kwwl.com/story/32396837/...pare-for-ride-in-honor-of-lyric-and-elizabeth
     
  5. 24Roses

    24Roses Well-Known Member

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  6. spoonball32

    spoonball32 New Member

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  7. Marilynilpa

    Marilynilpa Well-Known Member

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    Well, here we are 4 years later posting in the cold case section about Lyric and Lizzy. I don't know what else to say. RIP sweet girls.
     
  8. Asphikenna

    Asphikenna New Member

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    Sorry if this has already been mentioned, as I have just been reading through the whole forum and came across yours. My husband and I went down the day of to help search and they DID take the names of anyone walking around the lake at that time. My husband and I were both questioned and asked to provide identification and reason we were there.
     
  9. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    It's a very sad anniversary indeed I would be interested to know what the authorities think about the case now. We will be here waiting for the perp to be caught no matter how long it takes.
     
  10. Grainne Dhu

    Grainne Dhu Active Member

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    First of all, thank you very much, to both you and your husband.

    I'm glad they were keeping records of who was there and particularly impressed that they were checking IDs. It is awful to think about but there's definitely a chance that the perp's name is somewhere on that list.
     
  11. sweetcaro

    sweetcaro Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe 4 years have come and there is still no justice for these 2 angels. Heartbreaking.

    Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk
     
  12. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Well-Known Member

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    Glad to have you at WS.

    What are your thoughts on what happened to the girls?



    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
     
  13. Asphikenna

    Asphikenna New Member

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    Oh boy, that's a steep, slippery slope I've been traversing for the last 4 years. I'm a crime buff with a deep interest in criminal psychology and profiling, with an AA in Criminal Justice, but never went anywhere with it. And I have a stepdaughter who was (is) the girls age, live in the same area, and rides her bike along some of the same routes. I've engulfed myself so much with this case (and others) at times that, I end up sitting in a dark room on a lap top, being powered solely on Doritos and Mountain Dew. So please bear with me, but here goes...

    I think we are dealing with someone who is much more a "Zach Morris" than a "Wally" (see previous posts in forum). A "Zach Morris" is, well, just that, just like the Saved by the Bell character; cool, confident, suave and charismatic. Perhaps slightly narcissistic. He's clean-cut, not super slim or muscular, but average. Not particularly attractive, but okay looking. Between 28 -34 years of age at the time. He's likeable, but not dateable. He lives alone, and all of his romantic relationships end suddenly because he let's his "dark side" show. His egotistical aspect comes from an unapproving father who raised him to understand men are to be the power gender, and women are the subserviant gender. His mother would've been meek and obeyed. He understood the change of todays world, that not all women are meek and powerless and was able to "charm" his way into people's lives before showing his true need for power as a 'man'. This guy wouldn't seem the type to do this. He works in a repetitive factory job in the area (Tyson, John Deere, Bertch Cabinets, etc).

    I haven't quite decided how I feel he got them into the car other than he used his charming wit in some way. This was a crime of opportunity, he saw, he followed, he conquered. He was at his wits-end with rejection from females and knew he could 'overpower' a child. I don't feel he threatened them into the vehicle. But he had to have some macho confidence to take two instead of one. The immediate risk of taking two is: - one could run -both could fight -possible bigger commotion. I feel this was his first major crime (priors may be domestic abuse, sexual harassment...) and he was counting on one, perhaps saw just one girl at some point (with the other being out of view), but when two arrived he had an ego-boost of "I can take two AND get away with it", but once in the car *SOMEONE* saw them (and either has forgotten or isn't able to put two-and-two together) and that made him panic and take the girls out of town. I don't feel it was specifically sexual in nature, but more of a power trip that may have included sexual acts.

    This isn't someone anyone would suspect; he's never preyed on children before, but this opportunity gave him a power trip that was comparable to a drug high. He may have become slightly more paranoid after the incident, but hasn't really "let on" to anyone that he could be involved. He doesn't feel bad or good about what he'd done. He's neutral, without care. After the murders were over, he lost his high and just "exists" again.

    He's much like a young Bundy, minus the looks, and if given the opportunity, he will offend again, but at this time his paranoia is keeping him from attempting anything.

    Sorry if this seems like rambling, and it's the complete opposite of everyone else's profiling, but I just don't get the feeling that this guy was a "creep". I feel he is someone just average, but above average enough to not stick out and hasn't really 'let out' his inner demons to anyone but perhaps nibs of it to those he may have courted.

    I could be entirely wrong...we could all be entirely wrong...This is just my gut feeling and knowledge from all the documents I've read in the past.
     
  14. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Keeping the girls in my brain's heart.
    :rose: :heartbeat: :rose:
     
  15. Asphikenna

    Asphikenna New Member

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    That is one thing I get back to. A possible explanation about how Lizzie's purse ended up where it did. Did he get Lyric to the car and, let's assume, knock her out, upon seeing this Lizzie tried to run and he took after her, grabbed her, which resulted in her dropping her purse? Or was the purse with the bikes and before anyone could find them SOMEONE ELSE thought maybe they'd score some buck and when they realized it was a kid's purse they just tossed it? The location of the purse and the reason for it being where it was is the one thing that befuddles any theory I come up with regarding the actual abduction.
     
  16. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Well-Known Member

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    Well thank-you very much for your well thought out profile.

    What are your thoughts on the recovery location, the familiarity of the perp with the grounds and the way the girls were positioned?

    Do you think the offender immersed himself in the search or investigation at all?

    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
     
  17. Asphikenna

    Asphikenna New Member

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    What are your thoughts on the recovery location, the familiarity of the perp with the grounds and the way the girls were positioned?

    He is familiar with the location, whether it be a party place or a place his father took him hunting/fishing in his youth. He hadn't gone back there frequently, but now after the murders, he has likely returned a time or two. Most likely within the last year or two, as not to call attention to himself.

    As far as the positioning of the girls, since we don't know the exact position of the bodies each, we can only assume one of many theories:
    -He placed one girl, couldn't see where he put her and just happened to place the other further away
    -Depending on the state of decomposition and when they were placed, the body could have been moved by an animal
    -As he finished placing one, he heard a vehicle/person, was spooked and 'tossed' one from where he stood
    -The girls were both alive when they arrived at Seven Bridges, he killed one, the other ran and he caught up to her where she was found

    Not knowing X amount of other details, I couldn't tell you for sure which theory could be close to correct or if any of them are. I do however commend LE for keeping so close to the breast on the details of the recovery. It will help ensure that if someone slips up, they have a significant amount of information that can nail their coffin shut.

    Do you think the offender immersed himself in the search or investigation at all?

    Yes. Most likely he was there at the vigils, perhaps even gave Heather, Drew, Misty or Dan a hug or kind words, visits the Angel's Park and closely follows the case. BUT! he is sure not to let on to anyone else just how closely he follows it. He doesn't "care" or feel anything toward what he did, but he is paranoid of being caught, so he may put on the facade of sadness, but is really basking in his 'accomplishment'. He delights in the fact that he can attend these vigils, memorial rides and such, and no one knows the truth. It's a thrill, a push of endorphins, a high, for him. That he knows something no one else does.
     
  18. threecrazykids

    threecrazykids Well-Known Member

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    I think you are right on in your suspicions, and with one simple addition the gaps are closed - this person is a close friend of the Collins' family. Be it by a friend of of Drew, Heather, or one of their children via a friend's parent.

    He would easily be able to and almost be expected to be helping in the searches, attend the vigils, be deeply concerned about the case. To the point that if he WASN'T there, it would have thrown up red flags. Lizzy would likely willingly go with this charmer and not think twice and Lyric would follow suit. Even if someone DID see them with this person they probably wouldn't think a thing of it - so much so that days of seeing them with this person could think they've confused that day with another day even that week they'd seen them together.

    I am following the Gabriella Doolin case and this case could be eerily similar. The man who killed her was a close friend of the family. Hell, he killed her right at the football game their families were attending - their kids were very close friends! I agree with your profile, but I just have had this gut feeling that this person isn't a stranger at all - and if/when an arrest is made, it will devastate this family all over again due to the identity of the perp.

    ETA: The wife of Gabriella's killer is spot on for the wife of the suspect whom you've described. She is defending him, and so is the son (to the point that he was charged for threatening local PD investigating the case). She is very meek, believes every word this man says, and defends that they have the wrong person - he would NEVER harm a child, etc. LE has DNA evidence proving it was him and she was (last I'd read) defending him still. She is just so broken she can't accept what's right in front of her face - she simply doesn't believe he's capable of such an atrocious act - nor do his children.
     
  19. Asphikenna

    Asphikenna New Member

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    I've danced around with that theory so much...Is it a stranger? A friend? An acquaintance? I don't think it's a stranger in the most common understanding of the word. It's someone in the parents lives that would be considered a trusted individual. The best way to describe it is the relationship you would have with your Priest/Pastor. You *know* them, you trust them based on their profession, but you don't know the detail of their personal life. (Not saying it's a clergyman, just using it as a relationship comparison).
     
  20. giagreen

    giagreen Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone point me to a picture of where their bikes where found? I was in Evansdale the other day. I went by the bike path. If their bikes where found where I think they were then it all makes sense now. But I am not 100% sure where their bikes where found.

    Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk
     
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