IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

[William R Thomas]

William. I have to ask, is this a gut feeling you have or based on knowledge? I want to believe this, but given that Gannon rabbit trail, I don't see how or why this would have even entered her mind (in other words, didn't she actually think this was a possibility?) if she were in touch.

Also, I have heard that the authorities did have a suspect, but not enough evidence to pursue. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? It appears (Franklin Coverup involvees aside) that the actual perps that abducted him off the street, are either still out there, are in prison for another crime, or have died. I will guarantee you that this was not their only crime (abducting a paperboy early in the morning) and we need to get them off the street if they are still out there.

I like to think it's a bit of both. The only people who were taken in by Gannon, and persued it, were those who had little or no knowledge of the case, and were looking for something to write about, primarily the media. I have asked Noreen Gosch about Gannon on no fewer than 3 seperate occasions.

Ask yourself this question: IF you were Johnny Gosch, and you had to stay in hiding just to stay alive, would you suddnely appear as a gay *advertiser censored* star/white House reporter/Right wing schill-Political pundit?

Put in that context, it's a pretty easy question to answer.

Of course there will be those who will come forth and scream, "YES... But do you have any proof it's NOT Johnny Gosch?"

The evidence available points to the fact that Johnny was taken by an organized pedophine ring.

I offer gary caradori's last words to his wife and boss at the Nebraska State Legislature as proof. I offer his incredibly unusual crash and the subsequent death and that of his 8 year old son as proof. I offer Bonaccis testimony as proof. I offer Noreen Gosch words as proof. I offer Troy B. And Alesha as proof. I offer the man "jimmy" who appeared on AMW, who has the same brand shown in the photos as proof. I offer you not 1, but MULTIPLE paperboys, kidnapped from the same area, in the same timeframe, as proof.

For a change, why don't you (you know who you are), offer me something, anything, even remotely tangible, that points to this as a 1 person, freak-off-the-street whack-job kidnapping?

Also, can I have a million dollars while your at it? You'll have an easier job of coming up with that.

:razz:

 

[loganone]

I like to think it's a bit of both. The only people who were taken in by Gannon, and persued it, were those who had little or no knowledge of the case, and were looking for something to write about, primarily the media. I have asked Noreen Gosch about Gannon on no fewer than 3 seperate occasions.

Ask yourself this question: IF you were Johnny Gosch, and you had to stay in hiding just to stay alive, would you suddnely appear as a gay *advertiser censored* star/white House reporter/Right wing schill-Political pundit?

Put in that context, it's a pretty easy question to answer.

Of course there will be those who will come forth and scream, "YES... But do you have any proof it's NOT Johnny Gosch?"

The evidence available points to the fact that Johnny was taken by an organized pedophine ring.

I offer gary caradori's last words to his wife and boss at the Nebraska State Legislature as proof. I offer his incredibly unusual crash and the subsequent death and that of his 8 year old son as proof. I offer Bonaccis testimony as proof. I offer Noreen Gosch words as proof. I offer Troy B. And Alesha as proof. I offer the man "jimmy" who appeared on AMW, who has the same brand shown in the photos as proof. I offer you not 1, but MULTIPLE paperboys, kidnapped from the same area, in the same timeframe, as proof.

For a change, why don't you (you know who you are), offer me something, anything, even remotely tangible, that points to this as a 1 person, freak-off-the-street whack-job kidnapping?

Also, can I have a million dollars while your at it? You'll have an easier job of coming up with that.

:razz:

I always thought the Gannon thing was thrown out there as fodder for people who will run with a story with out checking facts.



I do have some questions though about Gary Caradori. Was the Cubs game before or after he got his "smoking gun"? If it was before, then I don't understand why he wouldn't have just jumped back in his plane and bring that info back right away. It just seems odd. IF the plane had been sabotaged, Gary created that window of opportunity, bad choice on his part? Also, who knew he was going to Chicago for the reason of picking up this information, they could lead to the key of who sabotaged the plane, if infact it was sabotaged. There has been no verifiable proof that it was sabotaged.



To me, it is clear that this abduction was not the act of one person alone, yet I am having a hard time getting my head around the fact that it is a vast government conspiracy. Of course, since I have not seen every piece of evidence I can not discount the possibility either. I have to question the source of information also. Since I hear all the time “We can’t divulge the source of our information” just doesn’t help much. For me it means there is no way to verify the source, the information, or its creditability. Sorry if you can’t agree, but I can’t not put much weight in the testimony of convicted sex offenders without verifiable proof of the testimony, and that testimony shouldn’t be verified by another convicted person. Bonacci’s testimony was tainted by Bonacci himself, when before giving the testimony he stated he was mentally ill, or at least that is what I have read, if that fact is not true then forgive me. I have always felt though, that there is some truth in Bonacci’s testimony.



Is there any way to get copies of the video from AMW that “Jimmy” appeared on. I never saw this, but have read a lot about this on the AMW website.



I am not trying to prove or disprove anything in this case, mainly because, as an outsider to the case, I have not seen every piece of evidence, and I am not to closed minded to rule out anything.



If you can’t tell, I’m really on the fence about this case

 

[Franklinfiles]

From Noreen's own testimony under oath:

"and I took along the same NBC reporter that first released the story so he could videotape everything that was said. And during that time during our visit at the prison Paul admitted to me what happened, how Johnny was kidnapped, where they took him, how he was used, where he went on from there. How he was used for pictures, pornographic pictures, many aspects of what I did not know. The TV station ran that as a series. That attracted the attention of America's Most Wanted. They came in and filmed the entire the story and all of what Paul had to say. In the mean time I was able to have a private investigator begin to check out many of the details that Paul had given me. And Paul is telling the truth. He was the first one to ever come to me and tell the truth about what happened to my son."

Q. (DeCamp) Noreen, how do you know this isn't just one more story? Why do you believe him rather than somebody else?

A. Because we've had the time to check out many of the things that Paul told us and we found them to be true, to be accurate. Because I have interviewed other young men that have given me the very same sorry. And because I have talked to my son myself one time.



I am in the process of trying to procure copies of the original nbc series as well as the America's Most Wanted.

http://franklinfiles.org/content/view/40/32/

 

[HeartofTexas]

For those of you who haven't read any of the testimony of Paul Bonacci, I invite you to read some of the things he wrote in a diary. John DeCamp is reading from the diary in this excerpt. I'm not going to put the excerpt here on WS because it's very difficult to read this material, and I caution anyone with a weak stomach not to read it. There are no bad words in it... just gruesome material.

http://www.sierratimes.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=9&topic=164

Some of the material will seem outlandish to some people. However, IMO, it rings true. I don't think anyone in their right mind, or totally out of their mind, could make up some of the things in this story. Again, JMHO.

 

[HeartofTexas]

I can't remember at the moment if this has been brought up before, so I'm going to put this out here for dissemination.

For those asking if anyone was ever able to corroborate Bonacci's story...

Regarding his role in taking blackmail photos of government officials, Rusty Nelson confirmed Bonacci’s testimony to Judge Urbom: "Q: Children on the airplane?...yes. Q: How young?...There was one situation went back to Washington, DC...he had probably 10, 12 years old...Q: Boys, girls?...Both...Q: Who attended the parties?...Prominent business people, very prominent high-ranking officials, politicians. The younger people. What would transpire was they would have a party and then a party after the party...after the party was more of a sex-type deal...That’s what Larry [King] would -- -- Q: These old politicians were having sex with each other?...Or people Larry would bring...some younger people...Did you take pictures of the parties?...I took pictures at some of the parties, yes..." [U.S. District Court testimony, 2-5-1999, pp. 89-91]

Rusty Nelson was the alleged photographer who is said to have taken thousands of pictures of these kids over the years.

http://tomflocco.com/fs/PhotographerTied.htm

 

[Franklinfiles]

If you want to listen to the interview where DeCamp reads from the Bonacci's journal here is a link for the audio:

http://franklinfiles.org/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,16/Itemid,27/

 

[Pcarpent]

Do you really believe a man showed up in the middle of the night 1997 at his mother's and said he was Johnny. Then she tells no one about it until 1999 because she promised him she would not. But when she finally does she announces it all over including interviews, internet, etc.

John Gosch's father evidently didn't believe it for a second either, based on press accounts released in 1999.

 

[Roy Harrold]

A comment about the recording of the latest interview with John DeCamp, which FranklinFiles kindly provided earlier.

At one point, the host is asking DeCamp: "So, who do you think is really 'behind it all?" - by which he means the whole alleged pedo kidnapping/ sex slave/ mind control/ snuff movie "operation" - and then he (the host) makes these shamefully gratuitous references to the JDL and the ADL !

Personally, I don't see any place for bigotry in discussion of these topics, and I get very angry when people insert references to their personal predjudices into such discussions. To their credit, I have not seen people posting here do that and everyone gets my respect for that.

But, when people do follow the links and read the materials and listen to the recordings, and they come across things like gratuitous bashing of jews, masons, popular culture figures like Hunter Thompson (for whom there is nothing in his life history to suggest he had any pedophilic inclinations at all), law enforcement, etc. you can't blame them for concluding that the real purpose of the discussions is to expose people to bigoted rantings.

I don't know how the sincere people, who really do care about what might have happened to Johnny Gosch, can overcome that obstacle to being taken seriously.

 

[HeartofTexas]

But, when people do follow the links and read the materials and listen to the recordings, and they come across things like gratuitous bashing of jews, masons, popular culture figures like Hunter Thompson (for whom there is nothing in his life history to suggest he had any pedophilic inclinations at all), law enforcement, etc. you can't blame them for concluding that the real purpose of the discussions is to expose people to bigoted rantings.

That thought has never crossed my mind. Few people on WS have a better ability to pick and choose what they do and don't believe than you, Roy, so I'm surprised to hear you say that you feel other people can't do the same.

I don't know how the sincere people, who really do care about what might have happened to Johnny Gosch, can overcome that obstacle to being taken seriously.

I think you're veering off down a road that nobody but you seems to have travelled. It almost seems like you're trying to start something, Roy.

 

[Roy Harrold]

I'm not alone in making that observation, Heart Of Texas. The host of a popular crimeblog, as an example, has stated that his skepticism about the conspiracy angle stems in part from the naked bigotry expressed by some of the people hosting discussions about it.

When my friends & I started going through all the related materials, after the Gosch=Gannon spectacle, we concluded that - other than Noreen Gosch - there didn't appear to us to be any discussion on the topic that wasn't pushing some other agenda.

I have come to see, and that was the point of the other posting, that some people involved in the conspiracy discussions really are sincerely concerned about the fate of Johnny Gosch but face a serious obstacle in the reality that some other commentators on the subject around the internet are quite obviously not so sincere. I'm not sure how the serious people can avoid being pre-judged, and I admit my own prejudgement.

 

[HeartofTexas]

Then perhaps I'm not following what you're saying, Roy. I understood you to be implying that was the case with WS posters. Is that not the case?

 

[William R Thomas]

John Gosch's father evidently didn't believe it for a second either, based on press accounts released in 1999.

Goschs father also turned into a wifebeating alcoholic who couldn't function on a normal level, hence his lack of involvement with this case.

 

[Lurker Steve]

From Noreen's own testimony under oath:

"and I took along the same NBC reporter that first released the story so he could videotape everything that was said. And during that time during our visit at the prison Paul admitted to me what happened, how Johnny was kidnapped, where they took him, how he was used, where he went on from there. How he was used for pictures, pornographic pictures, many aspects of what I did not know. The TV station ran that as a series. That attracted the attention of America's Most Wanted. They came in and filmed the entire the story and all of what Paul had to say. In the mean time I was able to have a private investigator begin to check out many of the details that Paul had given me. And Paul is telling the truth. He was the first one to ever come to me and tell the truth about what happened to my son."

Noreen cannot say under oath that Paul was telling the truth; she has no way of knowing for sure. She can THINK he is telling the truth, but she can't KNOW.

Noreen is a crackpot, IMHO.

 

[Roy Harrold]

No, Heart of Texas. Perhaps you didn't read my posting closely enough. I said:

"Personally, I don't see any place for bigotry in discussion of these topics, and I get very angry when people insert references to their personal predjudices into such discussions. To their credit, I have not seen people posting here do that and everyone gets my respect for that." [emphasis added]

 

[Roy Harrold]

Goschs father also turned into a wifebeating alcoholic who couldn't function on a normal level, hence his lack of involvement with this case.

You have evidence to support that statement? Police reports?

 

[HeartofTexas]

No, Roy, I read your post quite clearly, several times. Try to spare me your condescending attitude that I just skimmed right over it. In the future, I will not respond to any of your posts.

 

[Roy Harrold]

If I cannot even make complimentary comments without your inferring an insult from them, perhaps it would be best if you did not respond to my posts.

 

[inquiringmindz]

No, Roy, I read your post quite clearly, several times. Try to spare me your condescending attitude that I just skimmed right over it. In the future, I will not respond to any of your posts.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[William R Thomas]

You have evidence to support that statement? Police reports?

I have my conversations with Noreen Gosch, where she disclosed exactly what has happened with her husband, of which I have privately allowed a couple of the memebers on this forum to read, but we all know Roy, you think she's a nut and just full of untruths and fantasies. AND quite frankly Roy, if I had The names, addresses and phone numbers of all the perps in this case, your the LAST person I would provide them to.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

There is a strange dynamic going on in this thread. I realize that the idea of a far-reaching pedophile ring involving the highest levels of government is a pretty inflammatory concept and I understand that passions can run high on both sides.

However, the focus should be on actual investigation of the case and following the leads wherever the go, not this whizzing match that seems to prevail on this thread. If you feel that this is a conspiracy of any level (from two local pervs up to being personally directed by the President himself), then find something new and post it. If you think that the conspiracy theories are hooey, then post that backed by whatever evidence that you can present. What needs to not happen is this "Your an idiot for believing _________ (fill in the blank)" level of discussion that seems to be the norm here. We can disagree on the facts, but either outright name-calling or even subtle digs at each other show me that some people are more concerned about egos than truth.

If you think that someone on this thread is ignorant, don't say that - instead try and locate the information that will convince that person to believe what you believe. Arguing is not the same as persueding.

An example of where I believe that this thread is off-track: both sides agree that Paul Bonacci is a crucial part of the puzzle. He is either an innocent victim and a credible witness to the pedo conspiracy, or he is another John Mark Karr who created the story to deflect attention from his own history as a pedophile. Well, I posted information not long ago as to how Bonacci could be reached now. Has anybody attempted contact with him to check out his story? Not that I am aware of, because a few of you have been too busy whizzing on each other's opinions to actually follow up on leads.

To those of you that this post does not apply, my apologies. It is not my intention to paint with a broad brush. I think all of us can see the less-than-a-handful of posters here that this relates to.

And as a semi-related question: Wm. Thomas, care to share what the KRH Club is?