IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #2

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...snip I don't know where you got any of your information . How long have you known about this kidnapping? I have known and heard plenty about it since the day Johnny came up missing. For one thing a pedophile from Omaha Nebraska is not going to drive 140 miles to kidnap a little boy We had / have plenty of them right here. There were plenty of possibilities (suspects) in his own town. A few people that should have been investigated weren't because Noreen wouldn't allow it because of religious reasons. IMO I am not so sure Noreen shouldn't have been investigated too. There is one thing you all have to consider if you haven't already. Who ever got Johnny KNEW he would be out early that day delivering newspapers. I have always believed who ever got Johnny was an acquaintance of his.

Teresa, I have to totally disagree with you on the highlighted statement you made. There are 100s of known cases where paedophiles travel great distances to snatch their victims. Many are brave enough to do it in their own back yard, but most are cowards and are very afraid of being caught. If child molesters don't travel to find their prey, how do you explain Singapore?

It happens commonly in today's world. The Internet has been a paedophiles dream com true. Every day you hear of a bust where an undercover cop bags a dirty old man willing to travel from Kansas to Florida to have sex with a pre-teen. IT has become easier, but it certainly isn't a new concept.

Interstate 80 has been around for years. I've known many business men who travel from Des Moines to Omaha and vice versa on a regular basis. Especially in the Banking/Insurance/grain/pharma Industry. Kemper, Mutual of Omaha, Con Agra, ADM, State Farm (and on and on) have corporate offices in both cities. Back before Internet, travel between the 2 cities was crucial. You can't tell me the pervs don't "shop around" while on an overnight trip. I'm sure half of the married consenting adults do the same. Before the Internet, they stalked their prey, now they hook up on-line first to save time.

 

[Teresa Larson]

Teresa, I have to totally disagree with you on the highlighted statement you made. There are 100s of known cases where paedophiles travel great distances to snatch their victims. Many are brave enough to do it in their own back yard, but most are cowards and are very afraid of being caught. If child molesters don't travel to find their prey, how do you explain Singapore?

It happens commonly in today's world. The Internet has been a paedophiles dream com true. Every day you hear of a bust where an undercover cop bags a dirty old man willing to travel from Kansas to Florida to have sex with a pre-teen. IT has become easier, but it certainly isn't a new concept.

Interstate 80 has been around for years. I've known many business men who travel from Des Moines to Omaha and vice versa on a regular basis. Especially in the Banking/Insurance/grain/pharma Industry. Kemper, Mutual of Omaha, Con Agra, ADM, State Farm (and on and on) have corporate offices in both cities. Back before Internet, travel between the 2 cities was crucial. You can't tell me the pervs don't "shop around" while on an overnight trip. I'm sure half of the married consenting adults do the same. Before the Internet, they stalked their prey, now they hook up on-line first to save time.

How many pedophiles do you know that have traveled all of the way from Omaha to Singapore for a young boy? Johnny's father went with Johnny when he delivered his newspapers. The morning he was kidnapped his father didn't go with him. Don't you think that's a little odd?? I still say whoever did this was someone he knew. How would anybody from Omaha know that Johnny was going to be delivering his newspapers alone that day? There was no way possible for somebody from Omaha to know Johnny's route etc. I disagree with this statement you made "Many are brave enough to do it in their own back yards but most are cowards" IMO As far as I am concerned any pedophile is a coward and should be shot!! Most pedophiles sexually molest kids they know as friends or are related to. I also know I 80 has been around for many years however most business people fly to the locations They do not drive on I 80.

 

[2sisters]

I am not sure if I suspect his dad or not. He has been totally off the radar, which is weird, but then I think about Noreen and I can't blame him for laying low. Maybe a pedophile saw him alone for, what was the first time without his dad, delivering papers and saw an opportunity and took it.he could have been watching Johnny for weeks. Maybe this whole wacko theory of hers is to throw suspicion off her and the dad, maybe she knows what he did and is protecting him.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

How many pedophiles do you know that have traveled all of the way from Omaha to Singapore for a young boy?

Thankfully I do not know any personally, but I do follow the news very carefully and know that thousands of US men go to Singapore and other impoverished countries to get their rocks off on children.
http://www.unifemsingapore.org.sg/stop_childsex/index.htm

Johnny's father went with Johnny when he delivered his newspapers. The morning he was kidnapped his father didn't go with him. Don't you think that's a little odd?? I still say whoever did this was someone he knew. How would anybody from Omaha know that Johnny was going to be delivering his newspapers alone that day? There was no way possible for somebody from Omaha to know Johnny's route etc

According to Noreen's web site, 2 weeks before Johnny went missing a neighbor saw an unknown man taking photos of Johnny while he was walking home from school. It was reported to the police, but because it is not a crime to take pictures, the police tossed the licence plate number. It appears someone was watching Johnny, and surveiling his moves. Apparently the informant gave police her only copy of the licence number and could not remember it later when asked, but I would assume she would remember if it was a IA or NE plate. If the photographer was also the abductor, why take pictures 2 weeks before? Putting myself into the mind set of a kidnapper, (I am NOT a kidnapper, but trying think like one)and if I was hiring someone to do the dirty deed, I would want pictures to choose from. I would also prefer it be done in a different city. I'd say. "Hey Tom, next week when you have business in Des Moines, look around for a new boy. Take some pictures of 'my type' and bring them to me." 2 weeks later..."okay Tom, I like this one, pick him up for me this weekend, matter how long it takes to get him alone"

A paedophile ring is not so hard for me to grasp. We hear about it all the time...A few years ago there was a huge bust in the UK. Even in the US, just a few months ago a huge Child *advertiser censored* ring was busted in NJ which included prominent men of the state. Child *advertiser censored* is paedophilia in my eyes.

I disagree with this statement you made "Many are brave enough to do it in their own back yards but most are cowards" IMO As far as I am concerned any pedophile is a coward and should be shot!! Most pedophiles sexually molest kids they know as friends or are related to

Well, of course ALL paedophiles are cowards, some are just braver than others is the point I was making.

I also know I 80 has been around for many years however most business people fly to the locations They do not drive on I 80.

Omaha to Des Moines is 140 miles. The speed limit is 70 mph on I-80, it takes 2-3 hours to drive, depending on what side of town your final destination is. It's not half way across the country, it's a quick road trip. There are NO non-stop flights to Des Moines from Omaha...none. The fastest you can get there (not including the hour long check in and 1/2 luggage pickup time) is about 4 hours, with a stop in Milwaukee, WI. From the time you are dropped off at the airport to the time you are in your rental car, it is around 6 hours. Most flights have a lay over in WI, so add several hours on those flights. We drive that stretch of highway several times a year to visit family, for a Highway you say no business people travel, there sure are a lot of cars containing men in suits.

 

[thefragile7393]

After re-looking at the pictures I have to agree that the un-known boy and the so-called Johnny ones look very much alike. I've seen only one full-length picture of him, the pictures that's on the cover of his mom's book. And that boy DID look younger than him I admit. I guess they look similar enough to fool his mom sadly. Then however she mentions the brand and swears it's the same one that "Johnny" had when he visited her so many years ago. See what boggles my mind is that if it's a hoax, and I assume much of it is, it's so elaborate. The pictures, the visit.....if you just take out the Franklin thing and focus on those it's so elaborate a hoax. Why? Just to mess with her? To make a fool of herself? Who has something against her so much that they would want that? Obviously I'm a simple person and haven't been exposed to as much evil in the world as some of you have and I freely admit that.

Maybe this has been posted elsewhere and I missed it, but did anyone ever find out what the labs in Florida thought of the pictures and the picture of the supposed perp?

L

 

[mjak]

IF I remember correctly a whle back Dr. Doogie and I came to the conclusion that the pictures on Noreens websiste that do look like Johnny are pictures of the same boy in the other picture but only at a younger age. If memory serves me correctly I believe we tossed around the idea that if a picture of Johnny exists of him at a younger age with pedafiles it could indicate his father or another person Johnny knew was involved with this and abuse was going on prior to his abduction. If this scenerio is true then it is possible that Noreen may have concocted this whole elaborote theory because she can not deal with a truth that would mean something like this was going on and she was either unaware or did nothing. It is possible she may very well believe the wild theory she is selling because mentally she can not accept the truth so she has distorted it. This is just a theory of mine.

mjak

 

[dhchick04]

Thankfully I do not know any personally, but I do follow the news very carefully and know that thousands of US men go to Singapore and other impoverished countries to get their rocks off on children.
http://www.unifemsingapore.org.sg/stop_childsex/index.htm



According to Noreen's web site, 2 weeks before Johnny went missing a neighbor saw an unknown man taking photos of Johnny while he was walking home from school. It was reported to the police, but because it is not a crime to take pictures, the police tossed the licence plate number. It appears someone was watching Johnny, and surveiling his moves. Apparently the informant gave police her only copy of the licence number and could not remember it later when asked, but I would assume she would remember if it was a IA or NE plate. If the photographer was also the abductor, why take pictures 2 weeks before? Putting myself into the mind set of a kidnapper, (I am NOT a kidnapper, but trying think like one)and if I was hiring someone to do the dirty deed, I would want pictures to choose from. I would also prefer it be done in a different city. I'd say. "Hey Tom, next week when you have business in Des Moines, look around for a new boy. Take some pictures of 'my type' and bring them to me." 2 weeks later..."okay Tom, I like this one, pick him up for me this weekend, matter how long it takes to get him alone"

A paedophile ring is not so hard for me to grasp. We hear about it all the time...A few years ago there was a huge bust in the UK. Even in the US, just a few months ago a huge Child *advertiser censored* ring was busted in NJ which included prominent men of the state. Child *advertiser censored* is paedophilia in my eyes.


Well, of course ALL paedophiles are cowards, some are just braver than others is the point I was making.



Omaha to Des Moines is 140 miles. The speed limit is 70 mph on I-80, it takes 2-3 hours to drive, depending on what side of town your final destination is. It's not half way across the country, it's a quick road trip. There are NO non-stop flights to Des Moines from Omaha...none. The fastest you can get there (not including the hour long check in and 1/2 luggage pickup time) is about 4 hours, with a stop in Milwaukee, WI. From the time you are dropped off at the airport to the time you are in your rental car, it is around 6 hours. Most flights have a lay over in WI, so add several hours on those flights. We drive that stretch of highway several times a year to visit family, for a Highway you say no business people travel, there sure are a lot of cars containing men in suits.

Very good point!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I believe that the pictures were probably left on her doorstep by one of the same group of "investigators" that have "helped" Noreen all along. It would fit that one of them discovered the pictures, felt it was Johnny, then left it anonymously on her doorstep. (Remember, Rothstein has already shown that he can "see" Johnny in a George HW Bush campaign photo. It is not too far of a step to "see" Johnny in the bondage photos also.)

I had forgotten that the picture of the younger boy (if it is in fact Johnny) opens the possibility that Johnny had posed for these sort of pics prior to his abduction. If it is Johnny, then this opens up a whole different area for investigation. I should state, however, that I do not believe the boy in both the younger and older pics is Johnny.

One aspect of the pics that has bothered me: in pictures of consentual adult bondage, there usually is nudity and a level of sexuality involved. Yet these boys are fully clothed (with the one exception of one pic showing the boy shirtless) with nothing overtly sexual about them. I have a hard time believing that a organized pedo ring that kidnaps preteen boys for their perverted pleasure would then produce these rather tame looking pictures of boys merely tied up. Bonacci told tales of horrible torture and snuff films, yet these pics look about as harmless as what we used to do to each other when I was in Boy Scouts. It doesn't seem to correspond with what has been described by the Franklin conspiracy believers.

 

[mjak]

I believe that the pictures were probably left on her doorstep by one of the same group of "investigators" that have "helped" Noreen all along. It would fit that one of them discovered the pictures, felt it was Johnny, then left it anonymously on her doorstep. (Remember, Rothstein has already shown that he can "see" Johnny in a George HW Bush campaign photo. It is not too far of a step to "see" Johnny in the bondage photos also.)

I had forgotten that the picture of the younger boy (if it is in fact Johnny) opens the possibility that Johnny had posed for these sort of pics prior to his abduction. If it is Johnny, then this opens up a whole different area for investigation. I should state, however, that I do not believe the boy in both the younger and older pics is Johnny.

One aspect of the pics that has bothered me: in pictures of consentual adult bondage, there usually is nudity and a level of sexuality involved. Yet these boys are fully clothed (with the one exception of one pic showing the boy shirtless) with nothing overtly sexual about them. I have a hard time believing that a organized pedo ring that kidnaps preteen boys for their perverted pleasure would then produce these rather tame looking pictures of boys merely tied up. Bonacci told tales of horrible torture and snuff films, yet these pics look about as harmless as what we used to do to each other when I was Boy Scouts. It doesn't seem to correspond with what has been described by the Franklin conspiracy believers.

good points!! I am completly neurtal as to whether or not those pictures are Johnny. I do see a resembalance but by no means is it a conclusive likeness. I think these could be pictures of Johnny and just as likley could be of another child. However, if it is Johnny at a younger age this opens up a whole other can of worms!! One thing I do not believe is that anyone dorpped these pictures off on Noreens doorstep.

mjak

 

[Teresa Larson]

Omaha to Des Moines is 140 miles. The speed limit is 70 mph on I-80, it takes 2-3 hours to drive, depending on what side of town your final destination is. It's not half way across the country, it's a quick road trip. There are NO non-stop flights to Des Moines from Omaha...none. The fastest you can get there (not including the hour long check in and 1/2 luggage pickup time) is about 4 hours, with a stop in Milwaukee, WI. From the time you are dropped off at the airport to the time you are in your rental car, it is around 6 hours. Most flights have a lay over in WI, so add several hours on those flights. We drive that stretch of highway several times a year to visit family, for a Highway you say no business people travel, there sure are a lot of cars containing men in suits.

I didn't say from Omaha to Des Moines I meant business people in general. A lot of companies have their own private planes/jets and their employees fly in them so it wouldn't take much time to fly any place in the midwest. Pedophiles do not have "types" They just want a child period. I'd like to know how you can see if a guy has a suit on in a car across the lanes of I 80 LOL .......BTW the speed limit in Iowa is 65 You also have to understand that I have talked to my P.I. friend that worked this case many times about Johnny's kidnapping and I can tell you this much It was probably somebody Johnny knew that lived near by.

 

[Taylor]

"One aspect of the pics that has bothered me: in pictures of consentual adult bondage, there usually is nudity and a level of sexuality involved. Yet these boys are fully clothed (with the one exception of one pic showing the boy shirtless) with nothing overtly sexual about them. I have a hard time believing that a organized pedo ring that kidnaps preteen boys for their perverted pleasure would then produce these rather tame looking pictures of boys merely tied up. Bonacci told tales of horrible torture and snuff films, yet these pics look about as harmless as what we used to do to each other when I was Boy Scouts. It doesn't seem to correspond with what has been described by the Franklin conspiracy believers."

Dr. Doogie's analysis is right on the mark, in my opinion. While there is no denying that horrific things have been done to children by pedophiles, I do think that some people jump to conclusions whenever confronted by images involving bondage. When I was a child, me, my brothers, and cousins were bored, immature farm kids who often had too much time on our hands. We sometimes played "cops and robbers" games, and, inevitably, one or more of us ended up getting tied up and gagged. Nobody --- even the adults at that time --- thought there was anything wrong or "perverted" about these games. One of my older cousins took some Polaroid photos of our games and we all had a good laugh about it.

Having said this, it also needs to be acknowledged that some adults derive sexual pleasure from viewing images of bound children. While safe, sane bondage games played between consenting adults is, I believe, a perfectly acceptable manifestation of a normal, if robust, sex life, such activities involving children are clearly deviant, and should be forbidden by law. That they are not is shocking.

But, again, not all bondage activities are "perverted," and many role-playing games by children involving bondage are innocent. But there is a fine line to such activities, and when, and where, they veer into perversion, especially when they involve interaction between adults and children, they should be condemned in the strongest terms possible.

Now, a word about the controversial photos of the boys depicted in various phases of bondage. In my opinion, these are nothing more than old snaps of kids having fun posing, much as me and my brothers and cousins sometimes did when we were young. These children do not look "terrified" to me, as another poster wrote, and they certainly do not look battered, either. They just look like dumb kids who are having a little bit of naughty, silly fun.

I contend that if these images depicted children in actual kidnapping situations in which they were being photographed to provide sexual gratification to pedophiles and kiddy-bondage-freaks, a great deal more imagination would have gone into the bindings and poses. For example, the infamous image of the three boys on the bed would have been "spiced up," with each boy wearing a different, more provocative style of gag. The white cloth cleave gags shown in the photo simply wouldn't appeal to most sophisticated bondage aficionados --- particularly, I daresay, to wealthy perverts who can afford to pay big bucks for photographic images of children in real kidnapping/bondage situations. Instead, the kidnappers would have used, maybe, a colored-bandana cleave gag on the first boy, a rubber ball gag on the second, and a leather bit gag on the third child to provide variety, and generate a bigger arousal potential for their bondage clients.

The arm and leg bindings look amateurish, too --- much as if they were done by someone playing a practical joke. Like the cloth gags, they look loose and inefficient as genuine tools of restraint. If the photos were meant to appeal to criminal pedophiles, the perpetrators would have employed far more ornate types of binding, such as cuffs and fancy, intricate rope work. Torn strips of bed sheets just don't appeal to experienced bondage fans.

I hope my blunt observations add a dimension to the discussion that I feel has been missing, or glossed over. While those images might be deeply disturbing to some folks, they aren't --- as Dr. Doogie pointed out --- necessarily "proof" that something despicable or criminal has been done to those boys.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I didn't say from Omaha to Des Moines I meant business people in general. A lot of companies have their own private planes/jets and their employees fly in them so it wouldn't take much time to fly any place in the midwest. Pedophiles do not have "types" They just want a child period

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/2.html
...another classification of sexual offender is defined as a preferential child molester. These offenders have a sexual preference for children and usually maintain these desires throughout their lives. The preferential child molester will have a preference for either male or female children. With that, commonly a specific age group as well as physical features such as skin, eye and hair color is also desired.

I'd like to know how you can see if a guy has a suit on in a car across the lanes of I 80 LOL .......

Concidering it's a 4 to 6 lane divided highway, and I drive an SUV, I can see a lot. I even saw some older women rolling a joint while speeding down the highway in a BMW in July of this year.

BTW the speed limit in Iowa is 65 You also have to understand that I have talked to my P.I. friend that worked this case many times about Johnny's kidnapping and I can tell you this much It was probably somebody Johnny knew that lived near by.

Nope, it's 70. It increased in 2005
http://www.dot.state.ia.us/speedrpt.htm
In July 2005, the Iowa DOT implemented a change in the speed limit for rural interestate highways in Iowa, from 65 mph to 70 mph

The fact is, no one knows who took Johnny, or why. For all we know he could have been killed in a hit and run, and his body thrown into a culvert, never to be discovered.

My point is, as many reasons you can come up with that a paedophile ring is bogus, I can come up with just as many reasons that it's not.

I don't know Noreen, but I have corresponded with a few mothers of missing children over the past year. As off the wall Noreen may seem, she's not a lot different than the other Moms. They all desperately believe their children are still alive when most every clue points otherwise.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

...One aspect of the pics that has bothered me: in pictures of consentual adult bondage, there usually is nudity and a level of sexuality involved. Yet these boys are fully clothed (with the one exception of one pic showing the boy shirtless) with nothing overtly sexual about them. I have a hard time believing that a organized pedo ring that kidnaps preteen boys for their perverted pleasure would then produce these rather tame looking pictures of boys merely tied up. Bonacci told tales of horrible torture and snuff films, yet these pics look about as harmless as what we used to do to each other when I was in Boy Scouts. It doesn't seem to correspond with what has been described by the Franklin conspiracy believers.

I agree.

I personally find the pictures somewhat unbelievable to be Johnny. According to Various Missing websites, Johnny was 5'7'' and 140 pounds at the time he went missing.

I have a 15 year old who is that exact same height and weight right now. My son is very active and has good muscle tone, but still has a bit of a pudgy tummy. These pictures show a child who looks more like an average 8 or 9 year old maybe 4'7" and 90 pounds, with minimal muscle tone...He looks to small to be 5'7" and 140 pounds.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

OMGosh...They just had on the news about the hugh child *advertiser censored* collection found in a home in Hackensack. I swear the guy is the same guy shown on www.johnnygosh.com He looks just like the old balding guy standing over the boy strapped to the table.

 

[Mr. E]

The pics of the kid in red sweats with the cross necklace do look like Johnny, but, like others have said, don't appear to show a child in distress.

The various pics of the same boy on the bed, partially or fully clothed, look like a terrified child to me, perhaps Johnny. One outfit matches the outfit he was wearing when he went missing. One, of him on his stomach in white sweats, show his hands as purple from the bindings, so they're certainly not loose.

A similar pic of a boy in jeans and a red shirt on the same bed look like a younger version of the same kid. If it is Johnny, maybe he had been abused prior to this.

I think many of those pics do look like Johnny. But maybe they were taken over a period of time by someone known or close to Johnny, rather than the mysterious traveling pedo. If only there was some sort of identifying mark on the kid in the pic; he does have Johnny's features, but so do lots of kids.

 

[Teresa Larson]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/2.html
...another classification of sexual offender is defined as a preferential child molester. These offenders have a sexual preference for children and usually maintain these desires throughout their lives. The preferential child molester will have a preference for either male or female children. With that, commonly a specific age group as well as physical features such as skin, eye and hair color is also desired.

Concidering it's a 4 to 6 lane divided highway, and I drive an SUV, I can see a lot. I even saw some older women rolling a joint while speeding down the highway in a BMW in July of this year.

Nope, it's 70. It increased in 2005
http://www.dot.state.ia.us/speedrpt.htm
In July 2005, the Iowa DOT implemented a change in the speed limit for rural interestate highways in Iowa, from 65 mph to 70 mph

The fact is, no one knows who took Johnny, or why. For all we know he could have been killed in a hit and run, and his body thrown into a culvert, never to be discovered.

My point is, as many reasons you can come up with that a paedophile ring is bogus, I can come up with just as many reasons that it's not.

I don't know Noreen, but I have corresponded with a few mothers of missing children over the past year. As off the wall Noreen may seem, she's not a lot different than the other Moms. They all desperately believe their children are still alive when most every clue points otherwise.

I never said PEDOPHILES rings were bogus I know they exist. However I do not agree that some one from Omaha drove there that particular morning that Johnny was alone and kidnapped him. I repeat...From what my PI friend told me it was probably some one Johnny knew and from the area. IMO Noreen was/is a strange person.Have you ever met her? I also know that child molesters sometimes have a preference as to whether it's a boy or girl and some like both. I am no longer going to post here. I thought since I knew someone that worked on this case I might be able to help with some clues etc. I am not going to get into a pissing contest That's not what this place is for!

 

[2sisters]

If you know something that can help, please continue to post. We are all not always going to agree on topics. IMO, you should just forget that particular topic about the molesters driving distance, etc. and resume posting on this thread. If you do prefer to leave though, then by all means go, but I would hate to see someone with good info leave based on 2 posters not agreeing.

 

[2sisters]

It is not ridiculous to think of a molester driving to get a victim. if they really wanted to cover their tracks then what better way to drive miles out of the way? Especially if they have been caught before molesting in their hometown. Nobody would suspect John Doe of Omaha with a history of raping kids in the kidnapping of a DesMoines boy. Most people would think that a guy wouldn't drive that far, but it is plausable.

 

[thefragile7393]

IF I remember correctly a whle back Dr. Doogie and I came to the conclusion that the pictures on Noreens websiste that do look like Johnny are pictures of the same boy in the other picture but only at a younger age. If memory serves me correctly I believe we tossed around the idea that if a picture of Johnny exists of him at a younger age with pedafiles it could indicate his father or another person Johnny knew was involved with this and abuse was going on prior to his abduction. If this scenerio is true then it is possible that Noreen may have concocted this whole elaborote theory because she can not deal with a truth that would mean something like this was going on and she was either unaware or did nothing. It is possible she may very well believe the wild theory she is selling because mentally she can not accept the truth so she has distorted it. This is just a theory of mine.

mjak

I hate to say it, but this does sound quite plausible to me.......though IF this is the case, perhaps Noreen is truly not "in the know" and is completely bamboozled by the others into believing the Franklin cover-up. Or maybe I just don't want to accept that there is the possibility of delusion on her part.....convincing herself that this is what happened rather than the hard, horrible truth. I can concoct all sorts of odd theories at this point, I still believe though that his case and Eugene Martin's are connected, maybe also that boy named Mark as well. Gahh. What a mess!

 

[thefragile7393]

OMGosh...They just had on the news about the hugh child *advertiser censored* collection found in a home in Hackensack. I swear the guy is the same guy shown on www.johnnygosh.com He looks just like the old balding guy standing over the boy strapped to the table.

See those pictures look like they are from a movie to me, a fantasy LOTR type, not a pedi! I wonder if Noreen knows about the guy just arrested and looking like the guy in that picture......