ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 58

[Gemmie]

Egocentrism, perhaps?

Oooo... another good one! Thanks!

 

[CityKid]

Interesting. Perhaps they have an alternative menu. As I said, I reviewed the menu earlier today and as a former vegan myself, it does not appear to be very vegan friendly IMO. Mad Greek

Same. You'd have to leave off many ingredients for vegan options. Like a person being told the gluten-free option for a burger is having it served between lettuce leaves. Plus, if he wanted the limited number of vegan dishes MG serves, there are three locations of Yia Yia Nikki in Pullman.

Yia Yia Nikki's | Pullman WA | Menu

Explore Yia Yia Nikki's menu! We have plenty of delicious Greek and Mediterranean meals for you to enjoy.

www.yiayianikkis.com

 

[zoomom2]

Anyone in this position has to think of their own safety first. Self preservation is hard wired. Yes, whatever level of fear or danger she may have experienced, she absolutely did the safest thing IMO stay put. It’s a foxhole, I’m safer here than OUT there, he may come back? He may bring others with him? There maybe others here now? I don’t have a weapon? I can hardly breathe? Im shaking? I can’t seem to think straight? I can stay here, hopefully I’m safe here until I absolutely know and can see what is going on OUT there. IMO even this reasoning is certainly not a guarantee of survival, but improves your chances. Hidden is good. It’s sometimes not who you’re watching but who is watching you.
She likely did not have her phone, it was insufficient for calling out, didn’t know exactly what to report? What did she KNOW? IMO

Yes, 1000%

And don't forget that gen of kids were probably trained for active shooter drills in their previous schools. >>> Lock door -Hide-Hide-Hide - Stay Quiet. Don't come out till authorities arrive.

Now I'm not saying she didn't come out till the cops arrived, Obviously not.

We don't know anything about her phone (what if it was dead or the charger was in another room, someone's purse, or the car) or what she was thinking.

She is a victim.

Edited to clarify about phone.

 

[lcookster]

On his quick exit from the scene, and (as far as we know at this point) not going into other rooms and survival of the woman I think we need to parse what we know in hindsight from what he would have been presented with at the time. So the question of why he did not go on to continue killing includes following considerations:

So he has gone into two rooms and found, quite possibly by total surprise, that instead of a single female in each, there are two persons on each room. We can't know what he thought or knew, but we do know there are four more bedrooms. If he knew there aware three or four more bedrooms than the two he went into, he could be concerned that there maybe up to eight additional persons remaining alive in that house. Moreover, due to noise that already occurred, and more noise that was likely to occur if he kept killing -- that surviving people would also be in more roused state than the people he killed had been. That he could be forced into forcing doors against resistance, and perhaps being faced with one, two, three, or four alerted and standing military age males, or perhaps even armed people. Finally that people would be calling cops.
So danger to his person, as well as risk of leaving evidence, would be increased as he faced meaningful resistance.

At the point he fled, for all he knew, police had already been called, and more people, up to eight given the average number he had faced, were awake and likely his ambush advantage would have been gone.

Excellent post, IMO. So important to remember that he has probably been surprised by all the points listed in this post. Great point of view.

 

[Cool Cats]

There's been Defense Attorneys trying out Defense Theories online too, looking to see what sticks. I believe Casey Anthony's Defense Team did but no real evidence of it. It felt as if the team would read some of our discussions and parrot them word by word.
So it's VERY possible. Also, in the LUKE MAGNOTTA case, he taunted sleuths online, leaving tips, and bread crumbs when he killed the kittens it's well documented in the documentary "Don't F*ck With Cats."
I was involved with an online discussion group that helped pinpoint his whereabouts and he started threatening members.
He was smart, quiet clever he knew the FBI and Canadian police would NOT waste time hunting him down over a kitten, it was impossible to get the FBI to care. He even outlined he would escalate to humans next.
What got him caught was a series of mistakes but ultimately when he signed into an Internet Cafe to ego search himself! HUBRIS!
Never underestimate the ego of a killer's desire to search his own crime.

You say:

"Never underestimate the ego of a killer's desire to search his own crime."

This is why arsonists are notorious for going back to watch fire fighters put out the fires they start, why some killers go to victim's grave sites and memorial services, why killers search news sites for their crimes and go on SM sites to see what everyone is saying about what they did and who they suspect. And why killers themselves will insert themselves into SM conversations.

Once they do that LE can get their IP addresses.

LE often will put cameras around all these places I mentioned to see who shows up. And LE will use a defendant's search history and postings against them at trial.

Perhaps BK went back to his crime scene between 9:00am to 9:30 am for this very reason, his ego.

He probably wondered why he wasn't hearing anything in the news yet. I'm surprised he didn't go back sooner to try to get his knife sheath back. Maybe he did but there is no record.

 

[x_files]

Do you know what all that papa person put forth? I know sheath, park in back walk through woods, enter & exit side door… anything else?

strange mo for the killings. He claimed sexual violence and sexual dysfunction in the male. I wish I had taken screenshots. Could be a guess on the PR's part.

 

[BrownRice]

Egocentrism, perhaps?

Narcissist?

 

[x_files]

You say:

"Never underestimate the ego of a killer's desire to search his own crime."

This is why arsonists are notorious for going back to watch fire fighters put out the fires they start, why some killers go to victim's grave sites and memorial services, why killers search news sites for their crimes and go on SM sites to see what everyone is saying about what they did and who they suspect. And why killers themselves will insert themselves into SM conversations.

Once they do that LE can get their IP addresses.

LE often will put cameras around all these places I mentioned to see who shows up. And LE will use a defendant's search history and postings against them at trial.

yes, very true before the internet they'd drive/walk by or insert them in the crime.
Now, thank god for ISP addresses, and computer search history.

 

[TL4S]

We know from the PC that BK drove by the house several times before the murders that morning, so he knew how many vehicles were in the parking area. If we're going with the stalking angle, and that he'd scoped it out over months, there's a good chance he knew who owned which vehicle. I think he knew there were more than 4 people in that house, and I don't think E being there was any surprise. Maybe BK wasn't sure about K, since she had a new vehicle, IDK. JMO.

My personal thought today is that he wasn't stalking any one specific person, but that he wanted an over-the-top, newsworthy crime that would get national coverage, just like it has. So he chooses a house filled with popular sorority girls and a frat boy, whose lives are plastered all over SM, so perfect and beautiful. Multiple stabbings in one party house, right by campus, behind Greek row, with no obvious cameras nearby (he was wrong). I think he thought it would never get solved and he could spend the rest of his career "studying" the Idaho murders case, maybe becoming an expert on it.

Probably a stupid theory, but it's where I'm at today. I just cannot buy that he was after one or two and taken off-guard by the others...

 

[Canchance]

Incorrect.

It’s an opinion. And since we may never really know the truth as to the reason for the stops, the opinion can’t be incorrect.

 

[Sundog]

FBI Reportedly Told Indiana Cops to Pull Over Bryan Kohberger and His Dad

It's no coincidence Indiana cops pulled over Bryan Kohberger, the alleged murderer of 4 University of Idaho students, twice in one day -- the stops reportedly happened at the FBI's behest, as they built a case against him.

amp.tmz.com

I just keep thinking they may have not only wanted to take a close look at his hands, face & neck but also to get his voice on tape so Dylan could hear it.
Brilliant if so IMO. Officer does ask BK to speak up, he can’t hear him.
(And yes I know LE has denied being behind the 2 stops)

MOO

I assume they would have needed a warrant to get BK's voice on tape.

 

[Diogenetic]

IMO one the main reasons for the stops was to confirm the car is BKs. First the officer obtains his DL and then asks "is this your car?" and BK answers "yes". Totally eliminates the off chance claim that the car was sold to some unknown person for cash before 11-12 and the registration had not yet been changed. And, IMO, the second reason was to look in the vehicle to see if there was anything incriminating that was visible (or odoriferous) that could have initiated a vehicle search.

I don't normally on subscribe to complex explanations but I agree the odds are that these stops were requested by the investigators. Those are first close up eyes on looks at kohberger by LE. There would have been usefulness in looking at his hands, wrists, forearms. If they are thinking they might not have an arrest warrant for a week or two from then, the better close look at hands sooner rather than later would be important. If his hands had healing cuts they would know to do an even more exacting sampling and study of blood at scène. Whether the car interior looked like it had been cleaned would also be important.
Also LE had some headshots, but general body type, mannerism, even perhaps voice would be more useful to get sooner rather than later.
Peopel focusing on the fact that he was release and not ticketed is not about social commentary, it is statistically unlikely that in two highway stops a driver, yes, of any background, would not be ticketed at least in one of those.

 

[10ofRods]

Look, that is a stawman. You could say they don't need DNA because they have the car, or they don't need the cell phone because they have the DNA. This is an entirely circumstantial case so far.
And DNA on sheath is circumstantial. that is not my defintion of DNA being circumstantial, but he standard. Just google "is DNA evidence circumstantial).

So ALL the evidence matters to one degree or another. The contention that this witness contributes nothing to the case is not supported. Everything does. And you and I agree the DNA is the most damning, but consider if there is some chain of custody or technical screw up?

To say she offers nothing to the prosecution is not supported. We already know she is key in timeline offered in the affidavit and likely the full theory the prosecution offers at trial in a year or two. Every bit of evidence and thus the credibility of every bit of that evidence is important to this, so far, entirely circumstantial case.

It's no longer entirely circumstantial.

Many cases are entirely circumstantial. This one has a bit of lift-off from the presence of DM in that doorway.

I believe as you do about the nature of the evidence. DNA is circumstantial evidence, as I understand it. I believe cameras are also considered non-circumstantial, maybe a lawyer will weigh in. So there is also camera evidence at this point (of his car in Clarkton, for example).

I agree that the evidence must be taken in its totality, but presented to the jury as strands, or it will be overwhelming. I see at least 10 different complex strands already in this case (more than in most cases, quite the net that BK is caught in).

DM definitely brings something to the case - as do the various cameras.

 

[dustpanhands]

Hello all. Long time reader buy made an account because this case hits close to home for a handful
or reasons. I did want to share a story about an incident that happened to me a few years ago just to illustrate that you honestly have NO idea how you would react in this situation and the people criticizing DM are killing me. On what planet does a 19 year old female, living in an extremely safe college town (per LE) think noise at 4am in her shared party house and seeing a man she doesn’t recognize = 4 of my closest friends have just been murdered?

I’m a professional woman in my 40’s (mom, husband, kids) and live in what you would consider an affluent suburb (leaning toward rural with 1+ acre lots) town. A few years ago I went for a run around 10am on a regular Tuesday. I was running down a main road at the edge of town where houses lined one side and forest lined the other. This was not a desolate road, there is traffic and borders a much more populated town.

As i was running a truck pulled up beside me and a somewhat friendly guy asked where the closest gas station. I stood back and told him to follow the road to one or he could turn around and follow another route. He thank me and continued down the road.

I changed direction and headed back on the same road (my planned route) and maybe 5 min later he had done the same and stopped me again. Said he was confused with my directions and asks again to the closest station. I repeated what i said and he thanked me and took off. I thought it was unusual but figured he was flirting or confused and I was on mine 8 and tired - it was late winter and I was getting cold so I was just focused on getting home and warm.

Until half a mile up the road, i saw he had pulled over to the side and was standing standing leaning on the hood of the truck. My initial
thought was sort of ‘huh? wonder why he stopped again?’ I wasn’t exactly scared, but it made me nervous. I crossed to the other side of the road and there happened to be a street into a neighborhood that I took instead of staying straight and running by him. I looked at him as I turned and he looked at me, waved and said ‘hey, good to see you again’. The neighborhood houses didn’t start for a bit so the road in was just woods. I looked back once i was in the sidestreet and he was back in his truck slowly following me.

At this point I knew this was not normal but I was confused and my mind sort of went blank because I couldn’t understand why someone would follow me. It didn’t make any sense to me. I was running like I always do. I sort of froze there in the middle of the street looking at him and trying to understand what was going on. He stopped the truck, got out, and started to jog towards me and by that point I was terrified and my mind just told me to RUN.
He followed me down the street and though one yard, maybe two, then stopped. I ran through a few more and then stopped and hid in a child’s playhouse in someone’s back yard. At that point I called my husbands cell which went to voicemail so I left him a sobbing message that I was chased and scared and didn’t know what to do. I waited in that little house freezing my *advertiser censored* off and scared out of mind for about an hour and then I ran home and locked myself inside. I look back at that day and can’t understand why I didn’t take a picture of the truck and license plate or call 911 or scream or bang on someone’s door. Even when I was hiding in the playhouse terrified my mind kept questioning if I made up with happened or it wasn’t as scary as I had thought. Maybe the guy just needed directions? The idea that someone may have been trying to take me or hurt me is just so hard for me to wrap my head around. It doesn’t ‘fit’ into my life. I ended up reporting the incident to the police but was beyond humiliated that I couldn’t think more clearly or strategically in the moment.

So, please be gentle to DM. We know a tiny portion of what happened that night and we should all hope to god we never experience a fraction of what she has had - and will have to process.

I got chills reading your story. So, so glad you got to safety. You are so right, until something out of the blue occurs suddenly, hard to wrap the mind around, but you trusted your gut and ran! I agree with what you said about roommate.

 

[lcookster]

Stupid question from me: if the three warrants covered his person (swab), car and parents house was there a seperate or additional warrant for his apartment at school? Because we know they have been there. While I am asking questions of the group, When will we receive more information about what evidence may have been secured through these warrants? Trial? I usually follow missing children forums. Thanks in advance!

 

[Erutan]

It will be interesting from a forensic point of view if Xana was outside of the bedroom.
Almost like he hunted them down.
It takes time to kill four people and BK moved with deadly purpose !
There are some people who 'snap'. but I think the prosecution will not find it difficult to add premeditation to these murders.
There was intent !
M00.

 

[elissarachel]

Here is another Geragos statement..

Criminal defense lawyer Mark Geragos noted that while the DNA found on the sheath is significant, there's a lot more DNA work that still needs to be processed and analyzed. “The fact that there was a DNA single source — it looks like on the sheath…and the way they tied it to the suspect is they rummaged through the trash in Pennsylvania, and they did a comparison and found that it would not exclude the father to a pretty good number," Geragos said.

Bryan Kohberger case: Knife sheath points to possible target, experts say

I was recently a juror on a criminal trial. It was attempted murder and

Here is another Geragos statement..

Criminal defense lawyer Mark Geragos noted that while the DNA found on the sheath is significant, there's a lot more DNA work that still needs to be processed and analyzed. “The fact that there was a DNA single source — it looks like on the sheath…and the way they tied it to the suspect is they rummaged through the trash in Pennsylvania, and they did a comparison and found that it would not exclude the father to a pretty good number," Geragos said.

Bryan Kohberger case: Knife sheath points to possible target, experts say

I was recently a juror in an attempted murder trial. The prosecution said they had matching DNA. In other words, the defendant was “not excluded.” However, when the DNA expert was asked the clarify on the stand, the defense had her show us her chart. According to the chart, which is complex to understand, the result was actually inconclusive. Sooooo, a positive match according to LE just says in some circumstances that a person is “not excluded.” That is not a match but doesn’t necessarily out a suspect. Fine line there so without the specific info…it’s an in exact science really.

Important to note: the trial in which I was a juror…the prosecution’s case was all based on circumstantial evidence. Prosecutor did not do a great job in presenting it….public defender for the defendant was excellent avd presented a solid case. Jury deliberation took 3 full days. We found the defendant guilty —premeditated and willful. As a jury we carefully reviewed each piece of evidence and testimony and even without a dna/fingerprint match….the evidence pointed the way.

IMHO

 

[vlbay]

I'm the OP and PA wasn't what I was looking for, darn it. lol

Passive-aggressive behavior is a pattern of indirectly expressing negative feelings instead of openly addressing them. There's a disconnect between what a person who exhibits passive-aggressive behavior says and what he or she does.

What I can't figure out if there's a word for when people think stuff is about them when it is not. Like thinking someone was laughing at you but the laughing person was thinking about something that happened to them that morning. Nothing to do with the 'sensitive' person that thought they were being laughed at.

I guess it's really not important but wish I could think of what that's called. Google was no help. lol

ideas of reference? that's the term for a more pathological and disordered pattern of self attribution.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

Not sure, I guess we wait to find out.
The AA said X retrieved a DoorDash order, assuming she placed it. If it was a gift would her phone be alerted?
How would she know a delivery was left at the front door or sliding glass door?
Did DoorDash Guy knock or ring a bell? I have so many questions too.

Don’t know if your question has been answered but I get text notifications when the DD driver arrives at the restaurant, leaves with the order, is approaching my house, and drops it at the door. sometimes they ring the bell and sometimes they don’t. You can also put in special instructions for delivery.

last night I actually put in the King Road address as the deliver address in my app and the Jack in the Box was the only place I could find open after midnight. It showed it closed at 2;45. I may have quit looking too soon though.

 

[x_files]

You're right that it's far from determined if BK was a patron of Mad Greek, or encountered the victims elsewhere (or not), but many in the thread are stating as fact that he definitely encountered Maddie and Xana there because of the vegan options available. This is not confirmed and there is at least one source (tweet from a reporter) that suggests the opposite.

If he is indeed Vegan and The Mad Greek is one of the only vegan options close by it's highly likely he's been there or ordered from there, but no evidence yet, no pings yet correct?
I'd say it's a real high chance yes, he would have checked it out at one point to eat/drink.