ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

[CSIDreamer]

I think we're all asking about exactly those files - which I have open on Google Drive. Is HTC approved? Since people are referring to it here by acronym, I assume it is.

What do you think? Can we use HTC?

Well an admin said its approved.

 

[beaaspears]

Irresponsible journalism is endangering a witness which also risks compromising a trial.

Honestly at this point I just hope she's getting all the psychologic help she needs. Not only for survivals guilty but for all the initial speculations laid on her and now with all the questioning of what she did or didn't do.

 

[wary]

He doesn’t have to take the stand in his own defense, his defense attorney just has to make reasonable doubt to the jury? JMO
Remember Sleuthers it takes just one person on a jury to vote not guilty for a mistrial!
The Rhoden/Giley murders where investigated for over 2 years before they made an arrest after that the LE was getting evidence 5 years later, just saying that LE has a long way to go still yet!

But what constitutes reasonable doubt? His attorney can’t testify for him, and say that he was there innocently. There’s a solid chance now that his attorney won’t be able to find anyone who’ll say he was there—specially with a knife sheath.

 

[Nova]

By "bushy" I imagine hanging over the eyelids (like bushes haha)

By "prominent" I mean thick and distinctive.

But I guess I understand what the survivor meant.

It's also possible we have a game of "Telephone" here. I.e., DM said "distinctive", the LEO interviewing her wrote down "prominent"; the report went to whoever was in charge and s/he interpreted "prominent" as "thick"; and then the Corporal who wrote the PCA interpreted that as "bushy".

After all, "bushy" is an adjective we often hear in legal reports of prominent eyebrows.

 

[CSIDreamer]

ADMIN NOTE:

The true crime community is inundated with discussion of the Daily Mail article about the Reddit posts by Pappa Rodger and InsideLooking possibly having been made by BK. That is still speculation with no confirmation from official sources. As there is a gag order in place, there is no new ‘official’ information for discussion.

Websleuths would not normally allow discussion of any Reddit posts UNLESS the social media account is known to belong to a victim or a POI/suspect. After discussion with Tricia, Websleuths is making a thread specific exception in this instance to allow discussion of those 2 accounts because it is being covered by MSM and our WS approved sources (Jennifer Coffindaffer and Hidden True Crime).

At all times members must remember that, although suspected to be BK, those accounts are NOT CONFIRMED to be made by him and information must be taken with a very large grain of salt.

For example ... the DM article indicates that PR’s posts stopped after BK’s arrest. There is a screenshot in the DM article where a Reddit Admin specifically states the PR account had been removed by Reddit the day before BK’s arrest.

This will give our members something to discuss and speculate about but please remember to take it all with that big grain of salt.

Any questions, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to Report and ask and a Mod or Admin will get back to you as soon as possible. Thanks !!

I think we're all asking about exactly those files - which I have open on Google Drive. Is HTC approved? Since people are referring to it here by acronym, I assume it is.

What do you think? Can we use HTC?

This is why I've suggested reading through the numerous admin posts at the beginning of each thread.

 

[Past Mortem]

I wonder why it was sooo easy for the perp to sneak through the sliding door.
What was wrong with it?

I thought for the owners of the house security of the renters should be priority - alarm, sturdy locks, ring camera.

JMO

It's pretty easy to sneak in if the door is unlocked. In one of the cop body cam videos KG comes out of the glass door to talk to police and doesn't have to unlock it.

Ring camera is always a good idea but I don't see many college rentals with them. Especially in a setup like this where this isn't really the main entry. Great news is from the PCA it sounds like at least one neighbor, potentially even 2 neighbors, have video/audio recording of the occurences. If they have the car parking on video, they probably also have video of BK getting out of the car and walking...

In my own personal experience with sliding doors.

My childhood home had a glass sliding door that even when locked could be pulled away slightly from the frame, enough for me to stick my fingers through and unlock the door. Very easily done, no sound. It’s how I got in and out of the house late at night as a teenager…

That was almost 15 years ago. I went home recently to surprise my parents only to find they weren’t home. Any guesses for how I got into the house?

I’ve just gone and bought pieces of timber to go into the tracks of all my sliding doors at home after this case as I realised one of our doors has the exact same fault as my parents and until it can be fixed I’m taking no chances!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I agree with others that he will not take the stand in his own defense. So, aside from his testimony, what do you think he can introduce to prove these points?

He would have to prove he was there, btw. There's phone ping evidence that he was there in the neighborhood in the middle of the night, there are multiple cameras that caught him driving right up to the driveway of 1122 just before the burglary/murders occurred. He then speeds away (on camera) right after the time of the murders.

So it's not just pings. LE now has way more evidence, namely:

• Evidence from his car
• Evidence from his apartment
• Evidence from his parents' house
• Evidence from his parents' neighbors' trash
• An exact DNA match (from his own DNA swabbed at arrest time)
• Records from all devices he used (FBI can restore a lot of deleted data on phones and computers)
• Records from Google regarding searches made by his phone and his computer (by device identifiers)
• GPS records from his phone; he likely used Google Maps
• Records from other social media sites documenting whether BK is actually Pappa Rodger, InsideLooking and TapaTalk guy (or showing that he is NOT that person)
• His DNA, now that it is plainly known, will be easier to find on other items than just the sheath
• Fiber analysis from the crime scene, particularly regarding latent fibers from a 2015 Elantra
• More latent footprints and visible footprints (obviously, as it's highly unlikely he hopped from place to place on one foot inside the house)
• Receipts and records of his clothing purchases, any other relevant purposes (they'll eventually get the Albertson's receipts, IMO)
• Evidence of cleaning car immediately after crime
• Possible pictures of him wearing Van's pre-murder and not possessing them any longer (every bit of surveillance video of this man will be collected - and is being collected at the current time; also some of his colleagues may have noticed his shoes; they are being trained to be observers, after all.

Further, there are people who are able to report on his behavior pre- and post-murders.

There's camera evidence of him leaving Pullman and arriving Moscow at just before the time of the murders - in the wee hours of the morning.

No other DNA has been reported as found on that sheath, so it's very hard to explain how 4 people were murdered with a knife that goes into that particular sheath (Ka-Bar USMC), with the sheath found right next to one of the murder victims and the only DNA on the sheath is BK's. I assume that the amount of DNA found on the sheath confirms more than one "touch" is fairly plentiful, even though they likely have not tested the whole knife yet (they need to allow the defense to test it too).

IOW, there's a lot more to come. His defense has a major uphill battle. I don't recall another case that poses as many difficulties for the defense as this one - and I"m sure I've totally forgotten some vectors of evidence.

Did the cameras catch the license plate numbers????

 

[Past Mortem]

It's also possible we have a game of "Telephone" here. I.e., DM said "distinctive", the LEO interviewing her wrote down "prominent"; the report went to whoever was in charge and s/he interpreted "prominent" as "thick"; and then the Corporal who wrote the PCA interpreted that as "bushy".

After all, "bushy" is an adjective we often hear in legal reports of prominent eyebrows.

I would really, really hope not. Has anyone ever written a sentence using different words from thesaurus? You get a completely different meaning.

Though… I wouldn’t rule out that something like this could’ve occurred. I just really hope it didn’t.

 

[x_files]

I wonder why it was sooo easy for the perp to sneak through the sliding door.
What was wrong with it?

I thought for the owners of the house security of the renters should be priority - alarm, sturdy locks, ring camera.

JMO

They are easy to dislodge by force from their track or the lock wasn't fastened properly. They are easy to open, look at many crimes in the past sliding glass doors are often targeted.

 

[Boxer]

At article just got linked a page or two back that further reiterates his high school friends saying that he never had a girlfriend but that he was always trying to fit in.

Then there was something strange that I had not read before. I’m pretty sure it was from college, grad school, or maybe even his stint at WSU. One acquaintance recalled him saying that he could go in any bar in town and “have any lady he wanted.”

I’m not going to reread it for clarification because I just can’t. But if he was indeed saying that, I bet it was in WA to people who didn’t know him and had no history with him. His friends and acquaintances in PA would’ve known that was absurd.

I think his mental state could’ve been deteriorating those last few years in PA to the point where he was indulging in increasingly violent and sadistic fantasies. And that maybe he was compelled to move across the country where nobody knew him and he could be unencumbered in the pursuit of these all-consuming urges.

It’s so weird how these ideas crystallize in my mind as I think about this guy.

“Any lady he wanted to.”
MOO people can sense hostility even if it is subtle, and that i think causes people, women in this case, to avoid those people, like Incels.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I wonder why it was sooo easy for the perp to sneak through the sliding door.
What was wrong with it?

I thought for the owners of the house security of the renters should be priority - alarm, sturdy locks, ring camera.

JMO

MOO, college students- nothing is going to happen to us attitude, college life, crime is not on their minds, party house- life at this stage is about fun. Small towns can give a sense of security. We live on a small ranch in a small town about 40 miles from a large city, we don’t lock our doors.

 

[Ozoner]

Tend to agree, Oz

The evil coward probably had a pretty high opinion of himself, but he's clearly nothing special.

I believe at least one of his high school classmates called him 'an average student'.

In general, the best and brightest students in this country (or who come to this country for higher education) aren't majoring in criminal justice.

His apparent strong interest in that area, and the relative mediocrity of his peers, allowed him to stand out a bit in college.

But at the end of the day, this guy is just another average joe who, unfortunately, became a homicidal maniac.

He isn't as smart as he thought he was, that's for sure. However, there's nothing to stop the brightest and best from pursuing a career in criminal justice. I've known very bright people who pursued careers in many different fields in order to follow their passions.

I've also known people who weren't particularly bright who became doctors (which scares me a little).

Money is definitely a factor in choosing colleges.

But I believe the reason BK studied at DeSales University is because of:

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger studied under expert on serial killer BTK; daughter 'sick' at news

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger's advanced studies in criminology included time studying with the psychologist who co-wrote a book with serial killer BTK.

www.foxnews.com

As part of his prior studies at DeSales University, Kohberger worked under the tutelage of BTK expert Dr. Katherine Ramsland, a fact that shocked the infamous serial killer's daughter after news of Kohberger's arrest broke Friday.

It's entirely possible that BCK enrolled at DeSales in order to be mentored by Ramsland. I wonder why he selected WSU. For all anyone knows he might have been stalking one of his victims online before he even applied there.

 

[10ofRods]

Money is definitely a factor in choosing colleges.

But I believe the reason BK traveled so far away from Pennsylvania to go to college was because of:

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger studied under expert on serial killer BTK; daughter 'sick' at news

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger's advanced studies in criminology included time studying with the psychologist who co-wrote a book with serial killer BTK.

www.foxnews.com

As part of his prior studies at DeSales University, Kohberger worked under the tutelage of BTK expert Dr. Katherine Ramsland, a fact that shocked the infamous serial killer's daughter after news of Kohberger's arrest broke Friday.

He was studying with Dr R in Pennsylvania, though.

She's at DeSales U, in PA. Much of his program was online (I am unsure whether there were any live lectures during his time there - probably not, as it was Covid era).

Sometimes I think he traveled to Washington because he wanted to emulate more than one serial killer. Bundy began his (known) crimes against women in Washington State, then moved on to Oregon, Idaho, Utah and Colorado. For all we know, that helped determine BK's homeward route through Idaho and Colorado. Unlike Bundy, though, he is not familiar with the territory out there (Bundy was born in Vermont, lived as a toddler in Philadelphia, but moved to Tacoma, WA at age 4).

WSU is tied for 23rd place on a list of 42 doctoral programs in criminology:

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-humanities-schools/criminology-rankings

There are other ranking systems, nearly all of them say the same thing. DeSales doesn't have a criminology program that I know of (just Criminal Justice, which is distinctly different IMO).

Did he want to get far away from home? Or was this about financial aid and relative ranking of schools? Perhaps this was the top-ranked school into which he gained admission (paying out-of-state tuition for at least a year would push him up the list of desirable candidates, as the weeding out process lasts 3 years and the actual WSU campus gets to keep the extra from oos tuition, as I understand it). Besides, it's always good to get a mixture of students if you're trying to improve academic rankings, which I'm sure WSU is trying to do. Overall acceptance rate at WSU is 85% in any case, but I can't find separate data for the Criminology/Criminal Justice doctoral programs.

One needs at least a 3.0 from undergrad or prior work, 3.5 preferred. 3.3 GPA from a master's program can be used as well is applying directly to doctoral program, as BK was doing. No GRE required. Writing sample required. 3 references.

 

[RANCH]

He doesn’t have to take the stand in his own defense, his defense attorney just has to make reasonable doubt to the jury? JMO
Remember Sleuthers it takes just one person on a jury to vote not guilty for a mistrial!
The Rhoden/Giley murders where investigated for over 2 years before they made an arrest after that the LE was getting evidence 5 years later, just saying that LE has a long way to go still yet!

What if BK invokes his right to a speedy trial? No five year investigation. JMO.

 

[rahod1]

Here's the thing-- it cant be proven to be him-- it is just click bait and it is wrong to post that
picture

It does look like him. As I mentioned earlier, it would be *interesting* if they could get someone to come forward and identify themselves as that individual. Second, if LE can come up with a jacket found at one of his residences (WA/PA) that's IDENTICAL to the one worn in this pic, it could be very compelling. MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

This has a pretty good layout of the house.

The house on King Road: A look at the Moscow home where four U of I students were killed - East Idaho News

(Idaho Statesman) — At 1122 King Road in Moscow sits a gray six-bedroom, three-bathroom house that continues to be the source of significant national attention. Known as a student rental, the home’s most recent tenants were a group of six University of Idaho undergraduates who signed a 12-month...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

At article just got linked a page or two back that further reiterates his high school friends saying that he never had a girlfriend but that he was always trying to fit in.

Then there was something strange that I had not read before. I’m pretty sure it was from college, grad school, or maybe even his stint at WSU. One acquaintance recalled him saying that he could go in any bar in town and “have any lady he wanted.”

I’m not going to reread it for clarification because I just can’t. But if he was indeed saying that, I bet it was in WA to people who didn’t know him and had no history with him. His friends and acquaintances in PA would’ve known that was absurd.

I think his mental state could’ve been deteriorating those last few years in PA to the point where he was indulging in increasingly violent and sadistic fantasies. And that maybe he was compelled to move across the country where nobody knew him and he could be unencumbered in the pursuit of these all-consuming urges.

It’s so weird how these ideas crystallize in my mind as I think about this guy.

Agree, there has yet to be any romantic partner interviewed or identified, plenty of friends, students and coworkers. A troubled romantic history, pent up rage could contribute to his mental state deteriorating. I would add that possibly he had expectations that a move might improve certain aspects of his life, when those improvements were not realized, he acted on his urges.

 

[Cool Cats]

He may have shaved his eyebrows but if he had a ski mask like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/GANWAY-Thermal-Balaclava-Skullies-Windproof/dp/B06XKCZYXK/ref=asc_df_B06XKCZYXK/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312664184587&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8278648898119036456&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024320&hvtargid=pla-623774065567&ref=&adgrpid=63891281442&th=1

...his eyebrows would have easily been noticed. And, maybe it's just me, but something about that ski mask seems to enhance the look of the eyebrows--making them look bigger.

Yup.

With mouth and nose covered it emphasizes the eyes and eyebrows considerably.

I do agree with the poster on here who said details would be left out of the affidavit. That LE only needs enough details to get the affidavit approved by the judge.

LE never reveals everything. This is one way LE can find out if a witness is credible.

Anyone can come forward and tell LE something they read in the media, but only people familiar with the crime or suspect can tell LE details that are not made public.

An example would be if the witness in the home described the shoes the suspect was wearing as black tennis shoes, but this was left out of the affidavit.

Then another witness comes forward and describes black tennis shoes. Because black tennis shoes were not mentioned in the media and only LE knows, it makes this witness much more credible.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Right, not a black mask which implies that his whole face was covered. What the witness actually said is:

".....a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose......also had bushy eyebrows...."

That his face covering was black is an assumption based on the witness saying:

"...she saw a figure clad in black clothing...."

MSN

But he did leave the house in a black mask????

 

[10ofRods]

My 20 yo son has suffered from visual snow (the focus of that message board that the postings are from) and the resulting depersonalization for over 2 years now. It is hell. He has experienced many of the things in that are listed in what you can see in the video screenshot as a result of the visual snow--depression, SI, feeling a disconnect from emotions or wondering if his emotions are "real", sped up or slowed down perception of time, anxiety, poor self esteem, wondering if he's losing his mind. Visual snow has so much still unknown about it and the recommended treatments/meds are few and are just kinda guessed at by doctors. He's been to eye doctors, neuro ophthalmologists, psychiatrists, therapists, and had an MRI as well as neuropsych testing, blood work, etc. No medication, eyewear, or therapy has really worked much. At this point, he has grown so accustomed after 2 years of obsessing over it, that he has actually gotten used to it and doesn't register it as much. Luckily that has helped reduce the depersonalization and SI. He had to drop out of high school because it made him unable to function in that environment (despite being an honors student) and finally just took and passed his GEDs last week. In the early days, he tried coping by self medicating with marijuana and alcohol (which only made it worse). It has been a horrible, hard time for him and that was even with him living with us, telling us what was going on while it was going on, and having tons of medical/mental healthcare professionals involved. If this is BK, and he started developing afterimages at AGE NINE as one of those messages says, I can't imagine the damage Visual Snow caused to his mental health during his preteen and teen years. My son barely survived two plus years of it, much less over 10 years.

Thank you so much for this post. I had never heard of it until I read the Conrad Aikens short story ("Silent Snow, Secret Snow."

I feel as if this particular issue might be much harder to cope with now, in our media-intensive, computer-intensive lifestyle than it was back when Aiken wrote the story (early 20th century) but it was still hard. Still depersonalizing.

It's been a hard time for you, too. I'm glad he's adapting (it reminds me of face blindness, which is awful and can involve depersonalization as well).