ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 61

[CSIDreamer]

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I feel like if LE knew the exact time of the delivery, it would have been in the affidavit like all the other very specific times were. Door dash may have gotten there 5 or ten minutes before 4am, leaving more time between the delivery and BK's arrival.

I'm splitting hairs. It doesn't matter that much because Kohberger seen driving around at 4:04 doesn't change his arrival time in the house. JMO

 

[Montecore1]

I feel like if LE knew the exact time of the delivery, it would have been in the affidavit like all the other very specific times were.

IMO I dont think you will ever (or extremely rare) see an exact/specific time on any affidavit, it could leave the defense something else to prove inaccurate.

 

[TeaTime]

IMHO - The perp lost the sheath and in his excited adrenaline rush didn't notice it was missing until much later. He waived extradition so he could find out what LE had on him and much to his shock, learned that he left the sheath with his DNA on it next to Maddie.

He is no mastermind or trained hit-man. His hubris allowed him to over estimate his cunning and underestimate the capabilities of local LE.

 

[Mad Hettie]

The DD driver arrived at around 4, so the order was already placed before 4; not sure why the murderer would've wanted another person to be arriving at the scene at that point.

Either as a distraction in the lower part of the house while he enters upstairs or to open a door?

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

You could factor in that Xana was likely in her room when he arrived at 4:05-4:06. Goes upstairs (which make sense, since DM seems to think he was heading out of the house).

There are two places to park near the house. One is the main parking at the front of the house, where we saw the victims' cars being towed. The other is behind the house, in a shaded/wooded area reached from Queens Rd. I'm still not clear on where his car disappeared from neighbor cams, but I assume it was at the back of the house, which is where you can walk directly into the kitchen through the slider (as seen on the August noise complaint body cam).

LE is seen examining tire tracks and skid marks (similar to those from a sedan with a manual transmission that's peeling out on asphalt). So I think he parked in front and had to move quickly up around the side of the house - give him 30-45 seconds for that.

This is a person in a kind of frenzy (if the timeline is even remotely accurate). Timestamps on various cameras can be off by a couple of minutes, but it sure seems that the gas station operator sees his car heading TOWARD the area at around 3:45 (article approved by WS upthread: The Eyes of a Killer)

Or he's very competitive with himself.

When I hear that he's talking to himself, telling himself he's okay, I am again reminded of the coping strategies of children. This is not uncommon in a serious, traumatic situation (he's done it to himself though - that's what is so weird). His urge to destroy himself is beyond any theory of "fear of success" or ordinary "self-sabotage." Yesterday, one wise WSer said it reminded them of people who cut themselves in order to feel something (often feeling depersonalization at the same time). He's a human wrecking ball and so far under the radar of so many people, it's chilling.

Agree with 10ofRods that BCK was in kind of frenzy, as evidenced from both the time frame and the horrific murder scenes. And his frenzy could be related to his excitement and the thrill of getting to commit these absolutely inhuman and bloody murders. And his frenzy also could be related to being competitive with himself and perhaps other mass murderers.

10ofRods' last paragraph has a brilliant insight where she quoted a wise WSer about how people who cut themselves do so in order to feel something and often feel depersonalization at the same time. Agree that all of this, including him being under the radar of so many people, is absolutely chilling.

 

[truecrimeallthetime]

IMO With the evidence available so far, I believe that someone needing help called him out there (dont worry I'm gonna help you) and/or to specifically set him up (sheath). I also believe he knows who did it.

I do leave open the possibility that he was involved (sheath), but that currently does not fit with his choices of taking his phone, taking his car, and multiple passes (4) in his car by the house before parking. If he was stalking them, he would have known the roads and where to park to get a good look at what was going on in the house. JMO

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

I literally have no idea how the evidence so far leads you to this conclusion. But to each their own. Personally I think LE has a very solid case against BK and there is much more evidence to come. MOO

ETA if someone had called him out there, there would be a record of that call. And that would have changed everything about this case.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

I've read a few theories on why this crime was committed on 11/12 or more technically the morning of 11/13. Some have speculated that it had to do with the suspect's birthday being 11/21.

MOO, it was an homage to Charles Manson's birthday, 11/12. Certainly this would have been someone he studied, and potentially admired.

Quite possible. Yikes.

 

[JudgeJudi]

A full search has been executed at BK’s apartment. A large amount of evidence has been removed including a computer tower. The video shows the Findings and Conclusions on Motion to Seal Documents and page 2 is really interesting.

 

[Dre]

it is going to benefit him if he is fit.
but this is really is about mindset. And this weapon being the best choice for an ambush killing of that many people inside a home.
One doesn't don't need training or above average fitness to kill four people with that knife in that amount of time. You hammer grip that knife. and use it on surprised people, you are going to mortally wound them in one or two strikes

In fact my first comments on this case were were disbelief that so called forensic experts, even former FBI, laughable former NYPD saying it was a certainty he cut his hands. I used that knife in basic for hours and hours, striking dummies made out of 2x8" and no one in our class even had a scratch.

I do believe it’s often the slippery property of blood that’s attributed, perhaps even if you’ve got a hilt you could still slip if you were going fast. Moo

 

[ktm44]

JMO - human anatomy is not the same as the “anatomy of a kill”. People here said, that aiming at the upper torso can be most devastating, but the thorax is like a protective cage. The knife would hit ribs, slip along bones. Maybe a bayonet could easily do the job, but no one would send untrained soldiers in a battle. It still feels like BK had prior experience with killing, but I don’t think he was killing animals. Animals didn’t make him angry as they don’t speak. People did.

Too many people from BK’s past and from WSU mentioned verbal conflicts. JMO, it would seem that BK could easily misconstrue what had been said. This is why when I read that MM had perfect sense of humor, I thought, maybe BK, indeed, came across her prior, and didn’t understand her easy jokes? It could have been enough to enrage him.

If these were BK’s first murders, but KG’s wounds were more extensive, as the article says, it serves to prove that she was his first victim.

There is a French proverb, “appetite comes with eating”, so maybe overkilling had to do with enjoying the process. Not sure.

I believe he had an idealistic plan, some knowledge of anatomy and has not killed before. I also feel that SK's statement about different means does speak to the fact that his technique evolved as he progressed and his idealistic belief that one can just walk through a house and kill 4 people without encountering some form of resistance.

 

[Aquarian]

Don't know.
Maybe (Dont worry Im gonna help you heard by DM).
Maybe.
Before 3:26 when his car was first clocked on Indian Hills Drive. Or I suppose it could be later if he got a call while driving. JMO

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564742/122922-criminal-complaint.pdf

Do you think you would feel he was there to help or was being set up if we didn’t have the supposed statement of his after the arrest of : “ did you arrest anyone else?” Do you think that has swayed you, or are there other things that have led you to this thought?

 

[Jawds78]

IMO With the evidence available so far, I believe that someone needing help called him out there (dont worry I'm gonna help you) and/or to specifically set him up (sheath). I also believe he knows who did it.

I do leave open the possibility that he was involved (sheath), but that currently does not fit with his choices of taking his phone, taking his car, and multiple passes (4) in his car by the house before parking. If he was stalking them, he would have known the roads and where to park to get a good look at what was going on in the house. JMO

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

My only question, when he got arrested why didn't he provide the name of this other person? And surely there would be phone records that LE could then talk to them. IMO, if this occurred, LE would have already investigated this angle and it didn't pan out. All MOO because you are right that we do not have all the facts and some things are still unknown. IMO, JMO

 

[kellala]

IMHO - The perp lost the sheath and in his excited adrenaline rush didn't notice it was missing until much later. He waived extradition so he could find out what LE had on him and much to his shock, learned that he left the sheath with his DNA on it next to Maddie.

He is no mastermind or trained hit-man. His hubris allowed him to over estimate his cunning and underestimate the capabilities of local LE.

From his perspective, he took 4 lives, he is aready a life winner, if he can charm the jury, found not guilty, or get away with death penalty, he feels he is the god. And I bet you 10 cents, free or not, there are females who are going to write love letters to him.

 

[SkylarSid]

Apologies if this has already been answered, currently making my way through all the threads.
When his phone pinged near the residence at 9:12am (5 hours after the murders were committed), do we know what the maximum distance away from the house he could’ve been was? That would help with what I’m thinking on why he came back to the house.

I also wonder if his phone also tried to connect with the wifi at that time too. Maybe he was walking around hoping to locate the sheath.

 

[Nila Aella]

My only question, when he got arrested why didn't he provide the name of this other person? And surely there would be phone records that LE could then talk to them. IMO, if this occurred, LE would have already investigated this angle and it didn't pan out. All MOO because you are right that we do not have all the facts and some things are still unknown. IMO, JMO

Totally agree! Perhaps he didn't provide because he aided a murderer?
Yes! I am waiting to see the phone records and additional evidence, that is why I said with the evidence available now. JMO

 

[timmydilkins]

why can you no longer search for his case in the idaho courts? Only his driving infraction appears now.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

BINGO!! I was about to post on this subject that has been *put on the back burner*, but it's the genesis of pinpointing BK as a suspect.
From the link above:

".....then began the process of building an enormous family tree, using a vast array of public records and more-traditional detective work to create a short list of people within that tree who could plausibly be the suspect. The fact that Kohberger lived 10 miles from the crime scene would have helped him stand out. So too would the fact that he owned a white Elantra."

I searched the thread for Slate and didn't see this posted. My apologies if it's a dupe

Police Haven’t Said How They Cracked the Idaho Murders. This Is How.​

Investigators found suspect Bryan Kohberger with the method that solved the Golden State Killer case. But they aren’t saying so.

slate.com
Click to expand...

This Slate article is well-written and absolutely worth reading. Makes sense to me that LE likely used forensic genealogy and consulted with genealogists and the genealogy data bases available to them, which include Gedmatch and FamilyTreeDNA, to figure out the identity of the killer who left their DNA on the knife sheaf. They don't access his father's DNA until they get BCK's family trash in late December and by then they had already figured out who the killer was and were getting the Dad's DNA to confirm.

 

[kellala]

I also wonder if his phone also tried to connect with the wifi at that time too. Maybe he was walking around hoping to locate the sheath.

Haha, he should have sticked a Tile patch to his sheets so he can find it later.

 

[lji]

I also wonder if his phone also tried to connect with the wifi at that time too. Maybe he was walking around hoping to locate the sheath.

According to this website, SG says that his phone was ‘close enough to connect to the wifi’:

Kaylee Goncalves' father assumed suspect followed victims before Moscow murders

"I miss what she meant to the family," Steve Goncalves said about the loss of his daughter. "She knew how to make memories."

www.ktvb.com

I’m in the UK so unfortunately can’t read the full webpage but I have seen else where this is what’s said. What I can’t tell you is what time they apparently know his phone was that close (at the time of the murders or when he came back at 9:12am the next morning). It may say it in the website, again I can’t see it.

 

[BelleIsle]

We got the information from an early interview with K's mom, aunt and her sister A.

Mom - Kaylee just left home, she just left on Friday.. she left on Friday morning to go to a Pi Phi party and she had just bought a brand new Range Rover and she just.. she contemplated all day long, back and forth, whether she should go home because she just really wanted to show it to Maddie and some other friends and whatnot. And, she's just like 'mom, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to the Pi Phi party and I'm gonna.. Maddie's gotta see my new ride' and I'm like 'for sure', like I mean, it was nice, it was really nice. She'd just bought it that day, all her own, and I talked to the girls on... she had a fun time on Friday night, both of the girls, and then both of the girls texted me on Saturday.

Allabouttrial's transcript

Thank you very much!

I am also thinking that D's account of the times that she may have heard certain noises, or words, may not be 100% accurate depending upon if she was half awake or even bothered to look at the time on her phone. I guess we'll find out at the trial how she determined what time it was. So much of what we are speculating about is affected by the times that she gave for certain events.