ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

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The PCA states that his phone number was provided to Moscow PD in the August traffic stop. If they are writing you a ticket (he got a seatbelt violation) they need a way to contact you
I've gotten plenty of traffic tickets. Never been asked for a phone number. LE doesn't need a way to contact you. You need a way to contact the court to handle the ticket.
 
BK has an experienced and well respected public defender who is bringing in experts....this is far from an airtight case.
Yes he does, which is absolutely his legal right. A robust and effective defense, I respect that part of the judicial system. What I don't respect is a loser defendant who goes out and kills for the thrill of it because someone hurt his feelings once upon a time. Grow up, man up, you're caught dead to rights admit it, save the family of the true victims the horror of a sensationalized trial and agonizing details and just go away forever.

BK we won't remember anything about you in a few years, you'll just be another convicted killer doing time until you're carried out in a pine box. You didn't do one thing to make the world a better place, unlike the four innocent victims whose lives you took. Their legacy and loved will keep their memories alive and well while you rot away in a 6x8. Buh bye.

MOO
 
We'll see . . . if BK doesn't plead out first.
I don't believe there is a way the State will accept a plea deal, unless the families push for it. There's too much evidence and if this horrendous crime doesn't qualify for the DP, I don't know what does.

I wish to spare the innocent families and loved ones of the true victims if that's what they want, but I have zero sympathy for the defendant. He means nothing to me except pure Evil and his own family doesn't deserve the pain and torture he's brought to them either.

MOO
 
I've gotten plenty of traffic tickets. Never been asked for a phone number. LE doesn't need a way to contact you. You need a way to contact the court to handle the ticket.
i don't know if it was decided whether or not those Indiana stops were independent of the ongoing investigation, but I've never seen such "chatty" traffic stops.
 
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet about Dateline last night and the private party that took the girls home from the food truck:

- there was always been this big ‘Uber driver vs sorority safe driver’ conversation. Affidavit said private party.

This was described by one of the sorority friends that was interviewed as the latter and in fact said they don’t use Uber in Moscow. MSM almost always used Uber driver in the headline.
 
I'm not understanding how the 911 call is still a part of the active investigatory records and could interfere with enforcement proceedings? It was my understanding that everyone at the house during that call was cleared.

“I think it’ll be released when the prosecution believes that we can release that,” Mr Fry said in an interview with ABC affiliate KREM-TV. “That may be at trial ... That may be before then.”

Mr Fry declined to comment on whether what was discussed in the call could lead to any arrests.

The 911 call was made at 11.58am on 13 November - while the students are thought to have been killed between 3 and 4am.

“The surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up,” a statement by Moscow Police early on in the investigation read.

“Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.”

It is unclear whether the “unconscious individual” wording is attributed to the caller or the dispatcher.

When pressed by The Independent on why the call could not be released, the department said: “The contents are exempt from public disclosure because the records are active investigatory records which, if released, would interfere with enforcement proceedings...”



 
I don't believe there is a way the State will accept a plea deal, unless the families push for it. There's too much evidence and if this horrendous crime doesn't qualify for the DP, I don't know what does.

I wish to spare the innocent families and loved ones of the true victims if that's what they want, but I have zero sympathy for the defendant. He means nothing to me except pure Evil and his own family doesn't deserve the pain and torture he's brought to them either.

MOO
No way a plea deal here....he will have a defense and they will work to create some doubt...honestly don't know where they are going to get a jury.
 
It's also important that DM's testimony apparently led to a second pass over the crime scene, uncovering latent prints. Up until then, LE might not have know they were there or where exactly to look with their more sensitive blood detection system.

DM's eyewitness account put the investigation on better footing, as she also indicates that he seems to heading for the exit on the second floor at that time (and that's why the footprint outside is important as well). I think that one footprint outside appears to be from his way into the house, the latent print is him on his way out
MOO I agree that DM's observations tie the hallway man's movements to the location of the footprint. At the time of the writing of the PCA, of course, all of the shoes possibly owned by BK were not known. Hopefully, there is evidence that links the footprint to a specific shoe or type that BK owns/had/could be proved he had. It might be a reach, but if he thought he got away without tracking blood, maybe he kept the shoes.

I know it's impossible to read all of the posts, so excuse me for repeating this information:
A shoeprint is not a footprint. A shoeprint is not a latent print.
And if a shoeprint is outside in the dirt or mud, it is an impression and also not a latent print.
 
I don't believe there is a way the State will accept a plea deal, unless the families push for it. There's too much evidence and if this horrendous crime doesn't qualify for the DP, I don't know what does.

I wish to spare the innocent families and loved ones of the true victims if that's what they want, but I have zero sympathy for the defendant. He means nothing to me except pure Evil and his own family doesn't deserve the pain and torture he's brought to them either.

MOO
Right I feel like a plea bargain would only be helpful if for example they could not find the bodies and he agreed to lead authorities to them in exchange for a deal or something like that. In this case, the accused really has no bargaining chip IMO
 
No way a plea deal here....he will have a defense and they will work to create some doubt...honestly don't know where they are going to get a jury.
They will be able to seat a jury, it's been done many times before with high profile cases. Not everyone is as obsessed with criminal trials as us WSers. :) I have some family who don't even know why I was so happy when they arrested BK, they saw it in the media, but didn't pay it much attention with everything else going on in these crazy times.

MOO
 
All information on the 911 call is being withheld and LE has indicated it was for investigative reasons.

It has been discussed a few times over several threads but there has been no confirmation that anyone has passed out and passed out may have been a term used by dispatch for legal reasons and to protect the dignity of the deceased.

"Unconscious person" is what the dispatcher will assign to a call to get help over there faster.

 
I see.
Well, I meant this "derealisation" /lack of emotions, feeling like a misfit/"a sack of meat", suicidal thoughts, etc, etc.

Hmmm...
It all sounds very worrying.

Provided, of course, that he was the poster.

JMO

Gotcha. Yes, the derealization and the depersonalization are very concerning. I'm still reading what I can about recent research on VSS and its psychiatric correlations. It appears no one knows whether this is simply a reaction to the visual disturbances (which in BK's case include what the rest of us would call "visual hallucinations") but they're weird ones, as they are apparently always "afterimages" - the sudden reappearance of something one has already seen.

This can accompany various forms of dementia but it can also be a side effect of some medications. In VSS, it is part of the illness and is documented. These bizarre and startling reappearances of scenes or objects or people from the past are disturbing to patients (not all VSS sufferers have this, but a high proportion of them do - and BK describes it very well).

I think this is a boat load of symptoms for a person in their teens to deal with (he says the symptoms started abruptly at age 9 - and abrupt start of symptoms is common in VSS). My own trigeminal neuralgia just popped up one morning, waking me from sleep and heading me out to the ER as fast as I could rouse my husband. I say this because neurological disorders typically have a different kind of onset than psychiatric ones.

Could he have both schizophrenia AND VSS? Yes. But what a poor draw in the health lottery that would be. Schizophrenia is often genetic and runs in families, no such association for VSS that I can find so far. And, I will say, what writings we do have from him do not fit my own model of "schizophrenic writing," a topic which I am very interested in. I now wish i'd kept every scrap of it that I encountered but we didn't have cell phones back in those days.

Here's an article about the common accompanying conditions and symptoms of VSS (schizophrenia is not one of them):


So, if BK is indeed schizophrenic AND a VSS sufferer, he's a rare bird indeed.

(I just found one article on the relationship between schizophrenia and VSS - but it's not about actual clinical data, it's about the parts of the brain involved). Anyway, I'm off to read that too - as it is a very intriguing question. I have a bit of case study info that some might find interesting (about a particular VSS sufferer and their mental health),
 
Oh, I hope I didn't give the wrong impression about hearsay. Hearsay/exceptions are about getting evidence admitted at trial, and so it's about proving a case, not whether it is literally true or not. If she gave a statement that said she saw a person of x dimensions, then that has weight as part of the initial arrest/case. It is a piece of evidence in the investigation. Unless for some crazy reason it/her testifying is excluded from trial, her testimony will be a piece of evidence at trial. If she's on the stand the jury (assuming it's a jury trial) will evaluate her/its credibility on anything the court finds can be testified about. The defense will of course (as you noted) seek to find inconsistencies or weaknesses in her testimony in court (or if something terrible happens and she cannot testify, her statements alone), and the jury will give her testimony the weight they think it deserves, after having assessed it and any impact of cross.

TL; DR: just because a statement will need the maker to testify about the same subject at trial doesn't mean the statement is meaningless or has no weight or could just blow up. It has weight as evidence now, and after a cross-examination it will have more or less or different weight, depending on how it all goes.

TL; DR (2): Like everything else recited, it's currently considered evidence supporting the case against BK.
The hearsay discussion began owing to quote ascribed to LeBar in today's Daily M article where he referred to Dylan's staement as it currently stands as hearsay. The link is

The quote is
The fact that one of the surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen, is reported to have spotted Kohberger in the house the night of the murders is something LaBar believes can be contested.
'I don't believe hearsay is admissible in Idaho under the rules,' LaBar said.
'Cross-examination of her is going to be key in the case to possibly get even more holes as far as the identification is concerned.'

The conclusions drawn by some posters were that LEBar is correct in calling Dylan's statement hearsay until she takes the stand and is cross examined. I think the Daily M maybe muddied the waters with the misleading sentence prior to the quote, which suggests that Dylan had identified BK at the scene, when the PCA makes clear that she did not.

Thanking you so much for your time if this can be clarified further by you? Is Le Bar right? Is he even calling her statment hearsay in this quote?
 
I don't believe there is a way the State will accept a plea deal, unless the families push for it. There's too much evidence and if this horrendous crime doesn't qualify for the DP, I don't know what does.

I wish to spare the innocent families and loved ones of the true victims if that's what they want, but I have zero sympathy for the defendant. He means nothing to me except pure Evil and his own family doesn't deserve the pain and torture he's brought to them either.

MOO

The only plea I see is the typical one in death penalty cases where the defendant pleads guilty and in exchange the State drops the DP and the defendant gets LWOP.
 
I'm not understanding how the 911 call is still a part of the active investigatory records and could interfere with enforcement proceedings? It was my understanding that everyone at the house during that call was cleared.

“I think it’ll be released when the prosecution believes that we can release that,” Mr Fry said in an interview with ABC affiliate KREM-TV. “That may be at trial ... That may be before then.”

Mr Fry declined to comment on whether what was discussed in the call could lead to any arrests.

The 911 call was made at 11.58am on 13 November - while the students are thought to have been killed between 3 and 4am.

“The surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up,” a statement by Moscow Police early on in the investigation read.

“Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.”

It is unclear whether the “unconscious individual” wording is attributed to the caller or the dispatcher.

When pressed by The Independent on why the call could not be released, the department said: “The contents are exempt from public disclosure because the records are active investigatory records which, if released, would interfere with enforcement proceedings...”



It's probably because of the conversations with multiple people there that were describing what they saw. It's the intimate descriptions of the crime scene that LE and prosecutor want to protect...at this time. The gag order will also keep the trial lawyers and witnesses from speaking about it too...hopefully until the trial.
 
It's probably because of the conversations with multiple people there that were describing what they saw. It's the intimate descriptions of the crime scene that LE and prosecutor want to protect...at this time. The gag order will also keep the trial lawyers and witnesses from speaking about it too...hopefully until the trial.
I'm still stuck on his actual wording......“The contents are exempt from public disclosure because the records are active investigatory records which, if released, would interfere with enforcement proceedings...”
 
It means DM is a protected person from BK or anyone doing work on his behalf. It means no PI working for the defense or lawyers can approach her. She mostly likely can be deposed by the defense under protective circumstances and of course questioned in court but nothing else.

Right. The only way she (DM) can be questioned by the defense is in a deposition where the prosecution and her own attorney are there with her and can control the questioning, stopping certain questions.

And of course she can be cross examined on the stand by the defense.

 
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