ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[debbiediablo]

We don't know the exact time of the doordash delivery, just that it was "approximately" 4:00 am. The white elantra passed by the house 3 times and made a three quarter turn before BK entered the house. His vehicle was seen the fourth time entering the area at 4:04 am.

So it's possible that BK saw another car pull up to the house when he passed by one of the three times.

I wish we had an exact DD time; I've considered the idea that Xana was collecting her DD while BCK came in the kitchen slider and killed Ethan who was sound asleep, then headed upstairs before she returns to the kitchen. Did she chat with the driver for awhile? BCK is back downstairs and encounters Xana weeping in her bedroom... if crying means weeping as opposed to begging for help. This seems highly improbable but maybe his plan was to kill everyone no matter when they appeared (I'm not convinced he saw Dylan), but I'm sure she knows. To do it this way he would've had to have had Satan sitting on his shoulder.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Could they call her as a hostile witness?

I'm wondering if it is worth the prosecution calling her, just to prevent defense from doing so, if that is the case. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't kind of thing?

 

[Palinsmom]

Possible ‘thud’ info… just to add to the mix

My home is a split level with wood floors. If you step too hard on the upper floor it can sound like a ‘thud’. The ground level and below ground level makes no noise.

Just something else to think about over the next few months while we wait for more real details to be provided. Lol

 

[Helechawagirl]

We have extremely limited information about BK's mental health status. It would not seem to me personally that BK suffers from schizophrenia, and time-wise, it is unlikely either. His VSS was described at the age when it would be unlikely to have a first break. Too early. To add to it, if his classmates' account of BK using drugs in adolescence is to be believed, then how does one discriminate between drug-induced psychosis (if BK showed psychotic simptoms) and organic mental illness? Very hard.

About VSS, i read some information as well, but it is a "syndrome", so the underlying conditions might be different for different people. JMO. I don't believe that we shall be able to understand what BK suffered from, without additional medical information. The array of treatment modalities mentioned for VSS might also hint at different origins of the condition in its sufferers.

Looking through the list of the medications prescribed for the condition, I suddenly thought, what if BK was on some psychoactive drug for years prescribed for his VSS, and did relatively well? After all, most reports about him in adult years mention some social issues, but he maintained a steady job, got Masters and was accepted to Ph.D. program. One thing that comes to mind is the story of BK applying for police internship with Pullman PD (link Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger applied for internship at Pullman Police Department in fall 2022). Makes me wonder if he stopped his medications before that? (He probably had to fill in some paperwork for application). This could have eventually caused a shift in thinking patterns. JMO, I don't have any information about his medical history.

From what I read on the forum, he tried medication, but the side effects caused him to stop and he was pursuing a change in diet etc to heal himself. <modsnip: No link to source>

 

[maskedwoman]

I wish we had an exact DD time; I've considered the idea that Xana was collecting her DD while BCK came in the kitchen slider and killed Ethan who was sound asleep, then headed upstairs before she returns to the kitchen. Did she chat with the driver for awhile? BCK is back downstairs and encounters Xana weeping in her bedroom... if crying means weeping as opposed to begging for help. This seems highly improbable but maybe his plan was to kill everyone no matter when they appeared (I'm not convinced he saw Dylan), but I'm sure she knows. To do it this way he would've had to have had Satan sitting on his shoulder.

I see where you are going but, and I'm with you about his entry to the house. But, if she came into her room and found Ethan bloodied and non-responsive, surely she would have screamed for help? I'm just guessing, but feel confident I would have screamed. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

True, and do we know for sure that his reason for being around their house was to stalk them or to plan this? I wonder if he possibly had a legitimate reason for being in the area 12 times, and that’s how he found the girls. Maybe he has a friend in the neighborhood and they tried going to one of the parties. Or he was leaving someone’s apartment and noticed he could see into their rooms from the parking lot.

Yeah, I doubt he had any reason to be in the area unless he knew and was visiting someone in the neighborhood. We haven't heard that he did though and there doesn't seem to be any stores in the neighborhood.

I suppose he could have bought food at the food truck that late at night, if they sell vegan food.

I think he was not only looking for the perfect victims, but the perfect house to get in and out of quickly and easily. His car was in the area as early as August so he could have been planning for months.

 

[acutename]

My own lawyer tells me there are numerous exceptions to the hearsay rule--a confession might be such an exception--but the mere fact that something was said to a detective isn't one of them, as far as I--not a lawyer--know.

I.R.E. 803. Hearsay Exceptions; Availability of Declarant Immaterial. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

 

[Nova]

IMO, do you thinks its possible that DM tried to escape the home? By jumping off of the upper balcony, quick rushing out the back slider or running to a different bedroom thru out the crime? Same thing for BF. I have always wonder about that screen that is laying in the backyard next to the cinder block. Did BF try to escape the house by taking or pushing off the screen? Or…did an intruder try to enter the home thru BFs bedroom and that alerted her?

I think if the survivors had been that active, neither would have frozen and waited 8 hours to call 911. They would have run to a nearby residence--or even back to their locked room--and police would have been called by 4:30 a.m.

 

[Helechawagirl]

I’ve posted this before, but I have cams and have never heard sounds from inside the neighbors’ houses. I’ve heard extremely loud yelling (DV) from inside a neighbor‘s house (with their doors & windows closed) while I was outside, but never while inside, and definitely not via cams.

And again, I thought cams were motion activated. So if a sound was heard emanating from inside 1122, wouldn’t there need to be corresponding/simultaneous motion outside to trigger the recording?

I’m so skeptical that a thud was heard from inside 1122. I could believe that Murphy barking at the window as BK was running away is a possibility, though. Kaylee’s window would be aligned close to the neighbor’s cam, I think. As for the voices/whimper….idk.

Has anyone ever had sound captured on their cam from inside a neighbor home 50’ away (without motion)?

Are cams sound only activated?

I don’t place much credibility in that audio. 3 segments were repeated over and over. I just don’t think it is valid. JMO

 

[wary]

I'm wondering if it is worth the prosecution calling her, just to prevent defense from doing so, if that is the case. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't kind of thing?

@Alethea What is your opinion of the idea that the defense would call the surviving roommate as a witness to testify that she had seen someone in the house at the approximate time of the murders who was compatible in appearance with their client. (Assuming that the prosecution didn’t call her.)

It seems dangerous and pointless to me. Am I missing something?

 

[Nila Aella]

I think it’s possible that BK had a legitimate reason for being in the area the other 11 times. He could know someone around there. This could be how he found the girls.

I don’t think it’s that outlandish to think someone could get into his apartment, take his knife, car keys, and maybe phone (or put phone on airplane mode), and return before he woke up. This actually makes more sense to me then taking your own car, knife, and phone - guaranteeing that you will get caught.

He might have realized he had been framed, which is why he didn’t clean the car and dispose of trash until several weeks after the murders.

I agree that it is possible he had a legitimate reason for being in the area 12 times.
Not sure about someone taking his car/phone/knife though. I don't think he had a knife or sheath, noone has come forward to say that he ever owned or was seen with one. I can think of other scenarios that put him in the area that night though, without him being the murderer. And I definitely agree that it does not make sense that he took his own car and phone. I'll add he didn't appear to know where to park or how to navigate the roads.
I also agree with your reasoning for him cleaning his car. All my opinion and speculation after reading your post.

 

[mzmarymac]

I haven't posted in a while, but have been thinking about the case. The longer I think and have digested the case, it is my opinion at this time that BK intended to kill only one person that morning, and that was Maddie. Kaylee had moved out, so I don't think he expected her to be there. He'd been watching for some time, so I think he was pretty sure of their movements. I think he had somehow become obsessed with Maddie and chose her as a target. Perhaps he had propositioned her and she rebuffed him - she had a serious boyfriend.

I think he was surprised to find that she wasn't alone in her bed that night. I think he just felt he was going to go in there and do whatever, likely hold a knife to her throat and rape her. But his plan went awry. When confronted with two girls in the bed, he panicked and as they awoke, he decided to kill them.

I think he was going to leave after that, thinking he'd get away into the night. But Xana saw him so he went after her and had to kill her and Ethan as well. I honestly do not think he saw DM. He panicked and ran out.

The reason I feel this way is for a couple of reasons. First of all, most first time killers don't try to kill 4 people all at once. They would start out slow and work their way up. Also, if you are going to kill a whole bunch of people in one house, why stop at 4? Why not search every room and get them all? I think he meant to go in and harm and/or kill Maddie and the rest just happened.

 

[10ofRods]

I've had the misfortune of having hit the floor very hard on a few occasions - mostly not of my own volition - and you can rest assured that I made a very loud "thud." I think most anyone would, if they were forcibly slammed to the floor.

I think it would have to be pretty forcible to be heard 50 feet away.

But yeah, it makes sense that someone, perhaps a person with some experience in some of kind of self-defense bodywork would be able to be just that forceful. My assailant was a state champion wrestler. The walls did not make much noise, but had he thrown me on the floor, all bets off for noise. Where we lived later, we had carpeting and I had gotten heavier to lift.

A thick dense object (like a box of books) dropped from 6 feet does not register above 50 dB from the next room in my house (apple watch comes with a decibelmeter, never thought I'd have a use for it). But that box is only 30-40 lbs.

I will continue to assert that if Xana's body hit anything with enough force to be heard as a thud, 50 feet away, her body will forensically show it. Bruises and microfractures. Or actual fractures. There had to be real force behind it and not a gentle push to the ground.

IMO.

 

[Nova]

This student describes how all the students complained about BK's overly critical grading and the Prof set up a meeting in which each of the students could challenge their grades and BK was to defend them. Unclear how critical this was- did the Prof want BK to ease up or did he want the students to raise their level of study? But after the murders, BK just gave everbody 100%. (not sure if he was 100% disgusted or just trying to do what he was told- IMO)

The original link is dozens of pages back by now, but the reason why some of us are appalled is that the challenges and BK's "defense" were held in front of a class of 150 students (per original source)! That is unreasonable in any profession, but it is downright cruel to a first term teaching assistant.

The professor should have collected a representative sample of graded papers and gone over them with BK in private, or with a few students in a private conference!

As I opined in the original discussion, I think giving every later paper a perfect grade was an extended tantrum on BK's part. (Not that I blame him under the circumstances.) There's no way BK thought he was supposed to give 100s to everyone. If that's what the prof wanted, s/he wouldn't have needed him to defend his grading, she could have just directed him to give perfect scores.

 

[10ofRods]

It's quite possible there was so much noise and confusion on the call that the operator couldn't make sense of what was being said, so maybe they have a policy in place where they log it as an unconscious person.

From what I understand, the girls thought maybe their housemate "had passed out" and was nonresponsive (unconscious). To me this implies either they couldn't see her (and when they do, according to SG, one faints), OR that they were already in such shock that they didn't see the blood seeping out from under the door (sorry for the graphic image, but this is true crime).

While the 911 call is taking place, the friends arrive, open the door and then take over the phone call. IMO.

At any rate, I imagine that the morning began with the two sleepy roommates casually using their phones and probably texting their roomies to see who was going to make breakfast or whether they were going to do something together. Receiving no answer, they figured Xana, Maddie and Kaylee had partied hard and weren't up, weren't hungry. They see the fast food bags, figure that's why no hunger. They wait a bit, text again, knowing that the other girls do not want to sleep all day. No response. They get concerned. They knock on the door. No answer.

They freak. They worry that their roommate (they may not know Ethan is there) is ill or has encountered fentanyl or something or has some other issue (inadvertent alcohol poisoning; still non-responsive from late drinking?) But they know that's unlikely too. So they call the "friends" and then...they call 911.

What I want to know is what prompted them to escalate to 911?

JMO. Speculation.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don’t think the prosecution will will offer a plea deal. JMO

There really is no way to do a plea deal. In a plea deal you plead guilty and in exchange prosecutors drop some charges or drop a felony down to a misdemeanor or offer less time to serve than you would get if you lost at trial, or offer a combination of these, etc....

No way prosecutors will offer BK less than LWOP or drop any of his 5 charges. The only possible way for a plea to happen is if BK were charged with the death penalty and he agreed to plead guilty to all 5 charges and agreed to give a Proffer (testimony) to the prosecutors detailing why and what he did including all the planning and purchases made for the murders, how he picked his victims, when did his plan start, etc...

Then the prosecution might drop the DP for LWOP. But the families would have to agree to this and the judge would have to accept it on behalf of The People Of The State Of Idaho.

Here is an example of what his LWOP could look like, about what I expected, protective custody.

MSN

www.msn.com

NewsNation host Ashleigh Banfield asked Levine, the founder of Wall Street Prison Consultants, what would happen to Kohberger if he ends up in the state penitentiary and what would his jail circumstances look like.

"Well, most likely he's gonna be in protective custody because if they let him in 'general population' [there's a] good possibility somebody is going to try to take him out and kill him," Levine said. "You'll get a lot of street cred in a prison by committing violence against somebody who's an informant, somebody who's a child molester, somebody that abuses women. So his life is pretty bleak."

Levine, a former federal inmate himself, predicted that Kohberger is expected to undergo a 23-hour lockdown, adding that this is what he has to "look forward to the rest of his life."

He also said that Kohberger might not get regular visits like everyone else, and that prison guards will probably bring the telephone down to him where he will have to reach out to it from his cell to use.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wish we had an exact DD time; I've considered the idea that Xana was collecting her DD while BCK came in the kitchen slider and killed Ethan who was sound asleep, then headed upstairs before she returns to the kitchen. Did she chat with the driver for awhile? BCK is back downstairs and encounters Xana weeping in her bedroom... if crying means weeping as opposed to begging for help. This seems highly improbable but maybe his plan was to kill everyone no matter when they appeared (I'm not convinced he saw Dylan), but I'm sure she knows. To do it this way he would've had to have had Satan sitting on his shoulder.

Yes, that was the first scenario I considered. Or the deliver could have occurred while BK was upstairs and he encountered DM on his way to her bedroom.

LE might be withholding the exact time for a reason. Only BK knows whether he saw the delivery person.

Either way he would have known entering a house with potentially six residents would have been a risk. Especially college kids who might be awake at any hour on a weekend.

I think he was determined to commit the crimes that night. In his mind it might have been his last chance before everyone went home for Christmas break.

He might have been particularly brazen because he didn't care much if he got caught. Since he studied criminology he probably knew it would only be a matter of time before police came knocking at his door.

 

[isabella88]

I wish we had an exact DD time

Me too and I think it is crucial to the current timeline given by LE. I've seen lots of people here on WS talk about door dashers sending a text with a photo of the delivered order. In my experience, that happens only occasionally.

Also wonder if Xana ordered that food to be eaten later.

All JMO and speculation. My heart breaks thinking that Xana had to be awake for this nightmare.

 

[Palinsmom]

Idk, people keep questioning why he would bring his own car and knife and that this was the stupidest thing he could have done. So…what if the killer didn’t bring his own car and knife? It would not be that difficult for someone to get into his apartment, take his keys, grab a knife from his collection and return before he wakes up. He could have figured out he was being framed and thats why he was thoroughly cleaning his car and disposing of trash at neighbors several WEEKS after the murders. To me, this actually seems more plausible than a criminology phd student making so many incredibly basic mistakes.

My opinion and I am not arguing at all, it made me think….
What if… what you just said is exactly what he wants people to think?

What if… He claims he can’t be guilty because he’s too smart to make such careless mistakes?

Just my opinion. If we all have them yours is good too!

 

[jcamh]

I've had the misfortune of having hit the floor very hard on a few occasions - mostly not of my own volition - and you can rest assured that I made a very loud "thud." I think most anyone would, if they were forcibly slammed to the floor.

I fell in a hotel and hit my head on the wall of a hallway. It was so loud that the front desk manager and security guard both came running.