ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[YepperBepper]

Exactly what I'm afraid of in this case.

Curious. Do you generally feel that way about all cases, or is it particular to this one? Respectfully inquiring.

 

[layer]

Not sure if this has already been addressed...
His professor at DeSales, the renowned Katherine Ramsland, said she was aware of his survey. It was for his upcoming PHD work at WSU, and the form of the survey is not as unusual as people think it is. She had a word for that form of survey, I'll try to dig it up.

Man, I messed that all up. It was associate professor Michelle Bolger, it was for his graduate masters thesis at DeSales, and she helped him with it.

“I was one of the professors who helped Bryan with his proposal on his graduate thesis, his capstone project. He did put out a routine questionnaire for his thesis. It looks weird, I understand from the public view. But in criminology it’s normal. It’s a criminology theory called script theory, it’s a normal theory on how and why criminals commit their crime, etc.,” she said.

Source

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I do believe the account was his and so does NY Times: Idaho Murders Suspect Felt ‘No Emotion’ and ‘Little Remorse’ as a Teen
I'm not judging how he handles his health issues and don't see what I said to imply that.
By "these people" I mean those who write words like this,
“I feel like an organic sack of meat with no self worth,” he wrote in 2011, when he was 16, adding later, in the same post: “As I hug my family, I look into their faces, I see nothing, it is like I am looking at a video game, but less.” (Same site quote.)
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want a person who thinks like this to be provided help?!?!!

I didn't say I don't want him provided help. I said I don't agree with the notion that they get help or be separated from society which is what you said. I think that's stigmatizing with no basis for it. Even if he said those things, that doesn't mean society is at risk if he's around. JMO.

 

[layer]

That delivery guy is the second luckiest person alive, next to Dylan.

DoorDash drivers usually just drop the food at the front door, knock or ring, and dash. He likely never even saw the residents. BF, in my book would have to be the second luckiest person alive.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Curious. Do you generally feel that way about all cases, or is it particular to this one? Respectfully inquiring.

So far, just this one. I'm not really sure why. I guess part of it is that he's "different" and people seem to have jumped on that. I said a few threads ago that I hope he really is guilty and that we haven't just made a scapegoat out of the "weird kid" in town, but that was before the PCA. Since then, I do think they likely have a lot against him. I just hope it's all legit. It would truly bother me if this guy isn't guilty.

MOO.

 

[gliving]

Interesting. Frequently with the same girl. Hope she’s seen on camera at his apartment and police have interviewed her.

I thought it was interesting it was a UK news source.

Can't deny I imagined a weird plot twist: She's his alibi. She can show they were together all night. moo

 

[10ofRods]

OK, I am having second thoughts about what might’ve precipitated the violent murders of K and M, having initially rejected this idea because it just seemed so unlikely to me for reasons I will explain in a second, but (this is all my conjecture/hypothesis and opinion, though I think certain parts of the record [as we know it so far] support it):

If we take the AA‘s statement about K and M being found in a “single bed” to mean, literally, a twin-sized (small) bed and not, as some have suggested, to merely mean “the only bed in the room” AND we take into consideration the anecdotal evidence of BK’s anti-gay/homophobic attitude, anecdotal evidence of which was provided by some of BK’s former grad school colleagues, might not BK have been utterly enraged to discover in the third-floor bedroom not only two conventionally-attractive women who (he might assume) wouldn’t look twice at him as a prospective romantic partner but two women who pse sharing of one bed might’ve indicated to him that they were romanticall/sexually interested in each other?

I am not at all suggesting that K and M WERE actually romantically or sexually involved with each other (and, as a queer woman myself, I hope you will understand that I am also not saying there’d be anything at all wrong with it if they were!), only that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if a deeply homophobic and misogynistic person like BK allegedly was (again, this is per the anecdotes of his classmates/former associates) would read the presence of two adult women in one tiny bed (whose size would almost guarantee there was some level of physical proximity/closeness between the women) as “evidence” that they were sexually interested in each other. This scene could have seemed like a real slap in the face to an insecure, incel-adjacent narcissist (I am using that term in the colloquial, not diagnostic, sense so please leave me out of the “misuse of the DSM” gatekeeping discussion) and could very well have enraged him to the point of savage brutality against both K and M.

As far as why I initially rejected this idea: my mother kept asking me if I didn’t think the boatload of photos released to the public that showed K and M physically intertwined with each other indicated they might be “more than friends” (her words, not mine). I said that (based on my 20+ years as a college instructor) these poses weren’t at all uncommon for young women of that age, especially women in sororities, and told her she was reading too much into these images. But, in light of what we know about BK’s attitudes towards both women AND LGBTQIA+ people, I am starting to wonder if perhaps I’M the one who might’ve been misreading the images (or, at the very least, the one who was wrong to automatically foreclose on the possibility that their close friendship might’ve included some level of physical/romantic affection).

Again, this is all just my speculation based on certain parts of the record, but as far as guessing at what could’ve motivated this milquetoast misogynist to commit such brutality against K and A, it seems to me as plausible a theory as any other.

You're bringing so much to this discussion. I have the same confusion, but I'll just say that your first idea (that BK might be extremely anti-LGBQT+ people) bears thinking about. If he came to harm M or K but found reason to believe that they were romantically involved (even if they weren't), that makes me wonder.

Your theory is definitely plausible. Thank you for bringing it here. It troubled me too. I've thought about whether he was shocked, first to find K there at all, and then to find them in bed together.

If they were. It's still possible that K came running in to help M.

 

[Palinsmom]

...or to put on his murder outfit

Lol ! That’s what I said too!! A couple pages back

 

[r3d-ros3]

I thought it was interesting it was a UK news source.

Can't deny I imagined a weird plot twist: She's his alibi. She can show they were together all night. moo

I was surprised reading it, especially after we were only so recently discussing this possibility on WS. I agree re: UK news source.

If BK revealed to his attorney that he had a solid alibi, and there was evidence and a person to corroborate that alibi, would LE be likely to drop the charges at this point? My gut feeling is no, they would not drop the charges due to the significant evidence gathered and presented in the PCA. If anything, a solid and very convincing alibi would be a reason he and his attorney would NOT waive his right to a speedy trial. Obviously, BK did waive it, and the preliminary hearing is set for June (presumably to allow the defense enough time for discovery and any additional work they will need to do).

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

DoorDash drivers usually just drop the food at the front door, knock or ring, and dash. He likely never even saw the residents. BF, in my book would have to be the second luckiest person alive.

Fair.

 

[10ofRods]

Here is the link to the approval to discuss both InsideLooking and Pappa Rodger:

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

ADMIN NOTE: Take notice folks ... Websleuths will not tolerate disparaging comments about other members. If you engage in rude personal attacks against another member, you will receive a minimum 1 week Time Out. Depending on the consequences of such attacks, there may be a permanent loss of...

www.websleuths.com

I think I got that right.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I do believe the account was his and so does NY Times: Idaho Murders Suspect Felt ‘No Emotion’ and ‘Little Remorse’ as a Teen
I'm not judging how he handles his health issues and don't see what I said to imply that.
By "these people" I mean those who write words like this,
“I feel like an organic sack of meat with no self worth,” he wrote in 2011, when he was 16, adding later, in the same post: “As I hug my family, I look into their faces, I see nothing, it is like I am looking at a video game, but less.” (Same site quote.)
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want a person who thinks like this to be provided help?!?!!

In a perfect world, these people would be identified and given help earlier or separated from innocent society.

The problem is, even in a perfect world, there is no way to separate "these people" from "innocent society" because you can only offer help and you can't separate them because they refuse help and/or possibly may do something in the future. How and why would they be "separated from innocent society" because of what they wrote? I don't know of any studies, but I would think most all of "these" people never murder anyone.

 

[10ofRods]

Man, I messed that all up. It was associate professor Michelle Bolger, it was for his graduate masters thesis at DeSales, and she helped him with it.

“I was one of the professors who helped Bryan with his proposal on his graduate thesis, his capstone project. He did put out a routine questionnaire for his thesis. It looks weird, I understand from the public view. But in criminology it’s normal. It’s a criminology theory called script theory, it’s a normal theory on how and why criminals commit their crime, etc.,” she said.

Source

It's normal, although he used unusual wording. IMO.

Script theory is not really a thing, IMO, so I disagree with Prof Bolger and leave you to think about how thin even the wikipedia is on this theory:

Script theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

HOWEVER, Script Theory seems to be interesting as regarding certain kinds of criminals (perhaps related to Rational Choice Theory). It means " Criminals think, perhaps even write, a script for themselves before acting." They memorize steps, IOW.

How his particular survey showed use of Script Theory, I have no clue, but the fact that he was permitted to refer to crimes as "goals" is interesting. His survey was extremely leading, in my view. I feel like an academic grandma at this point.

 

[YepperBepper]

So far, just this one. I'm not really sure why. I guess part of it is that he's "different" and people seem to have jumped on that. I said a few threads ago that I hope he really is guilty and that we haven't just made a scapegoat out of the "weird kid" in town, but that was before the PCA. Since then, I do think they likely have a lot against him. I just hope it's all legit. It would truly bother me if this guy isn't guilty.

MOO.

So far, just this one. I'm not really sure why. I guess part of it is that he's "different" and people seem to have jumped on that. I said a few threads ago that I hope he really is guilty and that we haven't just made a scapegoat out of the "weird kid" in town, but that was before the PCA. Since then, I do think they likely have a lot against him. I just hope it's all legit. It would truly bother me if this guy isn't guilty.

MOO.

I understand. I've disagreed with the majority on several cases, none of which have been solved. On this one, I've teetered.

The Julie Rae case has taught me to give pause. I can't imagine being found guilty of a murdering your child, doing several years for it....and then have a serial killer confess to the crime right before his execution? Smh. And then there's Mr. Jewell, who, imho, fits the exact profile you describe. Odd. Easy target for both the police and society since we demanded "answers".

I'm not at all concerned about his confessions of the feelings he discussed at 16. It's a strange age...and I know many 16 year old who could have written what he did....then they mature, hormones regularize and they move on to live a normal, healthy life. There are always a few, however, that never quite seem to get beyond that. Of that small group, some folks just live with the feeling of non feeling and others act out. Is he one of he latter? I'd like to think that LE has the right guy. Why would they choose to grab a guy unrelated to the victims in any way who resided across the country until very recently? Right? I think.

Sorry for the long post.

Imho

 

[layer]

A video from ITV (an UK MSM network) At about 4:00 the reporter says a neighbor told him that he frequently saw Kohberger in the company of an Asian girl - often laughing and joking - and on the night of the murder he saw him right in front of the apartment complex acting normally.

Great report! And this perspective of the microphone/camera to the crime scene is the best I have seen so far.
Screenshot:

 

[browneyes]

Topics I'll be thinking about until we hear more:

1. THE CARS
1.1 He had to know Ethan was over - his very distinctive red jeep was parked up front and he had been watching the house. Why did this not stop him?
1.2. If he was not recording them (not ruling that out) nor stalking them that very weekend (not ruling that out either) it is very likely he did not know Kaylees new car. Why did an unknown car parked up front not stop him? It could have been like someones family visiting?
1.3 Kaylees car was returned. AFAIK, the others were not? It hints that there was no evidence in her new car, while there was evidence in the other car(s) or they did not want to risk giving them back and risking the defence claiming something about the cars that would be hard to disprove otherwise.

2. THE HVAC
The HVAC team was on the scene at the house on Dec the 5th. Now that might be totally irrelevant, as there are tons of reasons for them to be there, but as BK is supposed to have a background in HVAC, this gives me a pause. Was that not his first time in the house?

3. THE BATHROOM
Why does the affidavit (p2) mention the upstairs bathroom and the wall it shares with MMs bedroom? I mean it's not exactly smooth, the way it comes up:
"I later learned there was a dog in the room when Moscow PD officers initially responded. The dog belonged to KG and her ex-boyfriend JD. Ofc Smith the pointed out a small bathroom on the east side of the third floor. The bathroom shared a wall with MM bedroom which was situated on the south-east corner on the third floor. As I entered the bedroom, I could see two females in the single bed in the room."

4. WHEN BK MOVED TO PULLMAN
Per the affidavit (p16), he was already near the house on August 21. When talking of BKs phone being near the house: "All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21,2022 BKs phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m"
AFAIK, this was before classes even started and he was already either stalking them or at least meeting them.
4.1 This begs to ask, when and where did he became aware of his target? (From all we know, he could be the online ex-bf from 6 years ago of any of them, so the question is, how did the stalking start.).
4.2 And on what date did he actually move there?

5. DEPARTURE
5.1 How did BK know at ~2.40 (or before) that it's time to depart towards Moscow and his victim(s) is waiting at home, not at a party, at a sleepover, having a movie night with roomies, in their rooms with a hookup, on a video call etc? Like did he just take the drive with all the weapon and costume "just in case" it works out? I mean did he even have a burner phone to continue monitoring at least their online activity while his original phone was turned off?
5.2 What triggered him to attack that night? It was not ideal conditions to commit a perfect crime, that's for sure. There were 2 cars up front that could have not been there, for one.

6. THE DRIVE
6.1. What was BK doing with the weird drive to King Road? He did not even take the shortest route (Maps suggest to take the northern road by the airport - maybe avoided it due to cameras? But he was still caught on plenty...).Was he choosing this odd route to fetch something, to see something, to meet someone or to avoid to be seen by the cameras? Or something else entirely? Heck, maybe taking drugs before the "action"?
6.2 And why the circling before onset? Why not sit still and look at the house, makes way more sense somehow. Afraid of car being seen standing somewhere? But now it was seen on more cameras. I mean it's a generic car and with engine off at the night... Did he still have several options of houses to enter and was circling between them? (I personally don't think it's likely, but he could have been stalking more than one household)

BOTTOM LINE
All in all, I am still leaning towards there being a specific motive. IMO, as soon as people heard "a phd student in criminology" they jumped into "serial killer", "well planned", "psychopath", "just wanted to kill". If we could just for a moment ignore what he did in academia and think afresh. Like what would you think with the same evidence had it been told that the prep was a 28 year old male who had previously worked at a pizza place, possibly had a history of drug abuse and other mental illness and had just moved cross-country from his family. He drives to crime scene with his own car, enters the home of 5 young females while a visitor is obviously over, looses the cover of his murder weapon next to a victim, leaves DNA, video and phone evidence and even an eye witness.
Would your first thought still be "serial killer mastermind human hunter very well planned, only killed because he wanted to kill and to commit a perfect crime"? Because mine sure is not.

I think he had a specific motive, was fuelled by rage, acted irrationally that night due to a specific trigger and maybe had been stalking at least one of them via some sort of audio/video recording devices on their car(s) and/or in the HVAC system. I also think the crime scene was more graphic than just stabbing and probably only towards one victim with also possibly a trophy of some sort collected.

All MOO unless linked data.

Thank you, thank you. My questions too!!!

 

[layer]

It's normal, although he used unusual wording. IMO.

I know nothing of the legitimacy or lack thereof regarding script theory. I'm a high school dropout.

All I know is, to my untrained eye, that thing reads like a Help Wanted ad.

 

[gliving]

Jan 16, 2023
Jason LaBar, the attorney for the Idaho killing suspect, tells NewsNation's "CUOMO" that when talking to Bryan Kohberger, he appeared to be "an intelligent man" and "easy to talk to." LaBar also clarified that "Kohbgerger said he was eager to be exonerated," which he thinks indicates that Kohberger believes he's innocent." I wasn't judging the case at that point in time," LaBar added

(Cuomo brings up the swat shooting in Pullman again. LaBar defers his answer)

 

[CSIDreamer]

Every cell in my brain (and the facts LE has shared) tells me BK is guilty. MOO.
But even if he didn't commit these horrendous acts of violence, I still wouldn't feel sorry for him as it appears he's certainly not in a healthy head space. This exposure will have highlighted his personal health issues and, if they're valid, will ensure he gets the help he needs (as illustrated by his own accounts in the TapATalk content.)
In a perfect world, these people would be identified and given help earlier or separated from innocent society. In either case, I'm thankful that BK has surfaced to the public's attention. He needed exposure.
Mooing like a cow, for sure!!!

I think he's guilty, too. Should he be found guilty in a court of law, or plead guilty, he certainly needs to be separated from society.

However, I'm not of the opinion he deserves to be separated from society because of alleged writings from a decade ago. That's not a culture/civilization I would want to see flourish. Who gets to say who needs to be locked up? Who gets to write rules like that? JMHO

 

[10ofRods]

And here is the nod note allowing TapATalk (because the NYT is generally considered MSM):

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

ADMIN NOTE: Take notice folks ... Websleuths will not tolerate disparaging comments about other members. If you engage in rude personal attacks against another member, you will receive a minimum 1 week Time Out. Depending on the consequences of such attacks, there may be a permanent loss of...

www.websleuths.com