ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 67

[Auntie Cipation]

First post to this site - be kind, please.

From a legal standpoint, if evidence from his apartment ties to the victims and evidence from his parent's home
also points to his guilt, can the defense attorney refuse to continue with the case? Does the judge have any
discretion in discontinuing the trial? Yes, I understand the suspect has the right to a jury of his peers, but.......

From the perspective of an Idaho taxpayer, to proceed with such overwhelming evidence would be a total waste
of money. What has been the precendent is similar cases?

Every accused has the right to a hearty defense. And to a trial process that proceeds according to law.

The stronger the evidence, the more likely (IMO) the defendant might be to either take a plea deal if offered, or to plead guilty to avoid the trial altogether. In general, not necessarily BK.

I personally doubt BK will plead guilty, although I do think there is a decent chance he'll commit suicide before or during the trial.

MOO

Listening to Police Scanner?

@schooling Yes, good point. Seems we would have read or heard if BCK had a scanner in his car.

IIRC, a member posted about listening to local LE radio (member's local, not Moscow) without a police/fire/public safety scanner, just w a smart phone app.

My quick searches did not locate info about whether this could be done in Moscow w a similar app. Anyone?

@schooling

Yes, the site is called Broadcastify.

I didn't find any feeds for Latah County, but there are feeds for Whitman County and Pullman.

Whitman County Washington Live Audio Feeds

Whitman County Washington Live Audio Feeds

www.broadcastify.com

 

[Teche]

Honestly, why would one keep receipts for items they bought to commit a crime? I would think you'd go to some random store far away, pay cash, burn the receipt, and get rid of the item afterwards. Surely he wasn't going to return the item, or turn the receipt in to his accountant. There are thrift stores everywhere, too, maybe less likely to have cameras or whatnot. I've seen multiple cases where there was Walmart footage of the perp buying bleach or whatever right before he crime. Stupid.

I guess he didn't follow/read WS threads.

 

[Moriarty]

Yes, but WHERE are the SHEETS??

My apologies if someone has already suggested this, but this thread moves too quickly for me to go back searching everywhere!

If he is like most students living in residence, he threw everything into a bag or two (sheets, towels, clothes) and took them home in his car to wash for free over the holidays and not in the coin-hungry machines at rez (or, if he's lucky/spoiled, mom washed them for him).

If the stains on the pillows, etc. are blood, then if he was at all aware of these stains, he could have wrapped up sheets and towels and dark clothes and ditched them all somewhere. JMO of course.

A quick questions though: I'm on my phone and can't properly search right now, but the vacuum canister that was seized...is it for a larger type floor vacuum or a smaller, handheld, car vacuum? Has anyone looked up the make/model?

 

[Veronica Sawyer]

Examples of acquittals in cases with vast, circumstantial evidence?

There's always O.J.

And Casey Anthony!

 

[Nova]

I wasn't referring to most criminal court cases, I was only referring to this one in particular and only what was presented in the PCA.

MOO its not only obviously circumstantial but could easily be argued by the defense, the prosecution is also missing key ingredients for slam dunk conviction (so far). Heck we have seen plenty of ways here on WS to negate the PCA accusations as well as in SM and news interviews, many have been linked here. IMO thats quite easy to see...

IMO if ONLY what is in the PCA was presented to an impartial jury and argued by a well qualified attorney, with expert witness' along with scientific evidence, "reasonable doubt" could certainly be raised. As I have said before, the defense only needs to have one member of the jury question what the prosecution is presenting for that juror to say no to sentencing a man to death or even life.

I personally hope and pray that a member of any jury would only convict someone if they believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person is indeed guilty, but thats just me.

(Emphasis added.)

"Beyond a shadow of a doubt" is EXACTLY the language used during voir dire to indicate what the prosecution is NOT required to provide. "Reasonable doubt" is somewhat less than that, but the wording (at least in NY and CA where I have been a juror) is somewhat ambiguous and, to some extent, every jury has to decide what it means. If you believe what you posted and are honest when questioned, you would be excused from any jury.

We should keep in mind that a sizable majority of murder cases that go to trial do end in a conviction. In TX and CA, murder convictions are obtained in over 80% of trials (and those figures don't take into consideration cases where a conviction is achieved after a hung jury/mistrial in which the DA can use what s/he learned from the first trial). FL, unsurprisingly, only has a 59% conviction rate. (Don't get me started!)

With four, attractive, young, white people horribly slaughtered, most juries will be anxious to convict, which isn't to say they will ignore their sworn duty. It's really too early to worry, but given conviction rates we should be concerned that BK gets a fair trial!

 

[WingsOverTX]

First post to this site - be kind, please.

From a legal standpoint, if evidence from his apartment ties to the victims and evidence from his parent's home
also points to his guilt, can the defense attorney refuse to continue with the case? Does the judge have any
discretion in discontinuing the trial? Yes, I understand the suspect has the right to a jury of his peers, but.......

From the perspective of an Idaho taxpayer, to proceed with such overwhelming evidence would be a total waste
of money. What has been the precendent is similar cases?

RBBM
To answer your questions, no & no.

He can plead guilty & there will be no trial.

Otherwise, a trial will be necessary because of due process. I don't think a bench trial (judge decided guilt or innocence) is available in a case like this so a jury must be impaneled

His court-appointed counsel can withdraw before trial & another lawyer will be appointed if he still cannot afford to hire one.

I am not a lawyer, so other options may exist in ID.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can expand on this.

moo

 

[steeltowngirl]

Hi - I don't post really, but had a thought that I'd like to throw out and see what comments you guys might have. KB did kill these kids - didn't spare the two but was disciplined, times up, time to leave, sort of. The whole thing thoroughly planned, thought out, etc., but not planned to avoid being caught but planned not to see a conviction.
It's intriguing that no-one thinks he didn't do it, everyone wants to fry him, but maybe that's not of interest to him - maybe he's trying to prove that it doesn't mean anything to be charged with a crime if you don't get convicted. And maybe he's put this together with just enough confusion and doubt that he will not be convicted. Perhaps it's his statement/ perspective of the criminal justice system on a different level which would reconcile his doctoral intelligence with this inexplicable crime.
I don't know that I'm even making much sense LOL - but it crossed my mind...

Interesting thought. And one helluva gamble by BK if his goal was to test the legal system by committing mass murder, then planning not to be convicted.

Let’s see how that works out for him.

 

[Boodles]

Has it been mentioned here that maybe the reason he drove back to the crime at 9 AM was to go back and kill Dylan? That thought just occurred to me. I know many have suggested he wanted to find his knife sheath. I’m sorry if it has been brought up. I’ve been sick with the flu for a couple weeks and I know I can never catch up.
Just a thought. In any case, I’m glad his mind said no and he left.

I personally am so curious whether the other roommate heard or sensed anything during the course of those middle of that night/morning hours, such as footsteps, voices, doors opening or closing, unusual sounds, etc. I’m glad she’s physically safe.

 

[Copper107]

Some of this is from the so-called CSI Effect, which has been around for years. Essentially, jurors who watch a lot of crime TV often have unrealistic expectations of what evidence will exist at a crime scene. They expect to see loads of forensic evidence, and when it's not there, they automatically assume it's a bad case.

As someone previously noted, some of the doubt is, no doubt, due to people being cognizant of cases when innocent people went to jail. But some of it is also people who learned everything they know about crime and law from TV shows and thinking it's real life. MOO

I get your point and most assuredly this is happening. We must remember though; it is the guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The jurors have to evaluate the evidence presented and adhere to the rules of the court. Is it reasonable? Is all the evidence whether pro or con reasonable? If those elements are strictly adhered to, the verdict of the jury will reflect their decision. The jury should not bring their predisposed thoughts and grievances about the system to the jury room. If they have those feelings about the system they should be excluded.

i totally get your take on the CSI effect and it is real. Kuddos

 

[Nova]

The edit feature is time-limited, it goes away after a period of time. Maybe about an hour?

Ah, I see. Thank you very much. I DO lose track of time here.

 

[Jawds78]

Examples, please?



Works better yes - but still takes many washings and not full-proof. But yes, better than bleach for this purpose. I wonder if that's what BK bought in Albertson's. Of course, we do have a criminology student here, with full access to a university library.

It might even have had a game-like fun aspect for him (to go home and look up what to buy to get rid of evidence). In the end, it looks like he removed a lot. I want the plumbing!

Regarding the plumbing- do you have any logical reasons they did Not check it? When things feel one way but go a completely different way- I try to find the reasoning, counter thinking. Can't seem to find one for this, as you and many others have stated as well. Do you have Any ideas? It almost seems illogical not to check while you're there anyway. JMO.

 

[SteveP]

My apologies if someone has already suggested this, but this thread moves too quickly for me to go back searching everywhere!

If he is like most students living in residence, he threw everything into a bag or two (sheets, towels, clothes) and took them home in his car to wash for free over the holidays and not in the coin-hungry machines at rez (or, if he's lucky/spoiled, mom washed them for him).

If the stains on the pillows, etc. are blood, then if he was at all aware of these stains, he could have wrapped up sheets and towels and dark clothes and ditched them all somewhere. JMO of course.

A quick questions though: I'm on my phone and can't properly search right now, but the vacuum canister that was seized...is it for a larger type floor vacuum or a smaller, handheld, car vacuum? Has anyone looked up the make/model?

Dust container was from a Bissell Power Force upright vacuum.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think some of this also stems from everyone have a different definition of rural. As someone who lives in a much more rural place and smaller town than Moscow (it's like triple the size of the town I live near), it astonishes me to see people call it a small town. But undoubtedly to someone from a larger city, it does seem small. MOO

I don't think it's just small towns either, to be fair. They're border towns and share a lot of things in common. If one was a larger town, the other would be a suburb. I think what illustrates this point best is that their airport is the Pullman-Moscow Regional Airport. I'd bet a lot of things in town have both Pullman and Moscow in it. The residents of both towns likely cross the border daily. JMO.

 

[Veronica Sawyer]

Honestly, why would one keep receipts for items they bought to commit a crime? I would think you'd go to some random store far away, pay cash, burn the receipt, and get rid of the item afterwards. Surely he wasn't going to return the item, or turn the receipt in to his accountant. There are thrift stores everywhere, too, maybe less likely to have cameras or whatnot. I've seen multiple cases where there was Walmart footage of the perp buying bleach or whatever right before he crime. Stupid.

To pay homage to Jodi Arias and her Walmart receipt.

 

[Nila Aella]

I get your point and most assuredly this is happening. We must remember though; it is the guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The jurors have to evaluate the evidence presented and adhere to the rules of the court. Is it reasonable? Is all the evidence whether pro or con reasonable? If those elements are strictly adhered to, the verdict of the jury will reflect their decision. The jury should not bring their predisposed thoughts and grievances about the system to the jury room. If they have those feelings about the system they should be excluded.

i totally get your take on the CSI effect and it is real. Kuddos

I think jurors in a death penalty case pay particular attention to beyond a reasonable doubt! JMO

 

[Rallodgnrl]

If and only if those extraordinary lab-based results are part of crime lab kit and analysis in Washington and Idaho.

Of course, if the hair is big enough, someone can send it to Santa Cruz for further analysis. Keep in mind that the prof involved is doing research on full genomes.

For sure there are many labs that are looking at mtDNA in rootless hair, but will that be enough? Because what I read here daily is that apparently some people will still doubt. If the match is 99.9995%, is that enough for reasonable doubt? Not for me, if there's other circumstantial evidence of equal or higher value. But for some, DNA is a big deal and if it isn't perfectly matched, they will be doubtful.

It's sad, because there was a time when people could just use a microscope and see the exceptional and impossible-to-explain similarities between various bio-samples. I hope Murphy makes forensic history, I really do.

At the very least, they should be able to put the animal hair directly in Murphy's family tree. Will that be enough? (IF the hair is from a labradoodle? Which I bet it is).

Per the timeline, BK does the deeds then passes by Dylan's room on his way out, possibly leaving a latent shoe print. I guess that rules out the idea that he wore protective booties. Maybe that was obvious but it just dawned on me.

So, doesn't it seem there would be other prints leading to the latent print?

And out the door & beyond.

 

[persimm0n]

Hi - I don't post really, but had a thought that I'd like to throw out and see what comments you guys might have. KB did kill these kids - didn't spare the two but was disciplined, times up, time to leave, sort of. The whole thing thoroughly planned, thought out, etc., but not planned to avoid being caught but planned not to see a conviction.
It's intriguing that no-one thinks he didn't do it, everyone wants to fry him, but maybe that's not of interest to him - maybe he's trying to prove that it doesn't mean anything to be charged with a crime if you don't get convicted. And maybe he's put this together with just enough confusion and doubt that he will not be convicted. Perhaps it's his statement/ perspective of the criminal justice system on a different level which would reconcile his doctoral intelligence with this inexplicable crime.
I don't know that I'm even making much sense LOL - but it crossed my mind...

I think what we know so far is a lot of damning circumstantial evidence against him. But as I like to think of things from all angles, if I was a jury member totally unaware of the case and its major media presence, what we know so far wouldn't make ME personally go with a guilty verdict. I'd like to see more specific cell phone locations, I'm sure they've been or will be triangulated to get a more accurate location since it appears there aren't that many cell towers compared to more populated areas.
Sure what we know so far is suspicious AF! But circumstantial evidence isn't always enough to get a guilty verdict. JMO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Maybe he buys vegan approved bedding and takes it with him. Not kidding. JMO

This actually makes a lot of sense.

 

[rahod1]

If the evidence becomes truly overwhelming against him, perhaps the defense starts to look for a guilty plea in exchange for taking death penalty off the table. But I think the evidence is far from overwhelming right now. Many cases with far more evidence are tried all the time and some of those people even get off... reasonable doubt.

(Snipped for brevity)

Well, he was taken into custody with NO BAIL provision, so the affidavit was compelling. As to... *FAR* from providing overwhelming evidence..... let's just say it was *convincing* for starters. We can assume there is more evidence as well. Ultimately, this will be as close to a *slam-dunk* that you will find. MOO.

 

[Curiosa20]

He’s just an idiot who thought they’d never find him I think. It’s remarkable, how someone who studied things like this, scouted the house, and planned for months, did this.

I think he knew he was done when he left the sheath, and tried to cover it up. But he made more mistakes, and forgot items.

Idiot.

Don’t forget the crazy as can be 9:00 AM return drive by. WTH?
I wonder where he got the knife? Did he buy it online and opened the stupid box it arrived in with gloves on? Prolly not. Did he steal it? Inherit it? Get it from a freak dealer? That’s going to be interesting. Someone else’s DNA has to be on it, too.
Then he spaced out when he put it on belt loop without a glove? I’m not even clear about why he would have had it in a sheath, except for the fetishy aspect, since he went in there to quickly annihilate the victims.