ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 68

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Generally, public policy on this subject is driven by the Constitutional rights to a fair and public trial before an impartial tribunal v the freedom of the press. See, Press-Enterprise Co. v. Superior Court of California, 464 U.S. 501 (1984), which rejected a court order closing the voir dire proceedings before a trial, and stated the general rule how courts should balancing openness with other proceedings:

"Closed proceedings, although not absolutely precluded, must be rare and only for cause shown that outweighs the value of openness. The presumption of openness may be overcome only by an overriding interest based on findings that closure is essential to preserve higher values and is narrowly tailored to serve that interest."

So, the hearings will all be open, as will documents filed in court for the most part.

The rule as to proceedings does not extend to criminal justice records in every jurisdiction, however. See, In Re Sir Mario Owens, 2018 CO 55 (2018), (SCOTUS denied review in 2018). Different state laws set the balance on these records differently.

The Idaho Public Records Act restricts access to law enforcement records on the following grounds:

"Section 74-124. EXEMPTIONS FROM DISCLOSURE — CONFIDENTIALITY.

(1) Notwithstanding any statute or rule of court to the contrary, nothing in this chapter nor chapter 10, title 59, Idaho Code, shall be construed to require disclosure of investigatory records compiled for law enforcement purposes by a law enforcement agency, but such exemption from disclosure applies only to the extent that the production of such records would:

(a) Interfere with enforcement proceedings;

(b) Deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication;

(c) Constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;

(d) Disclose the identity of a confidential source and, in the case of a record compiled by a criminal law enforcement agency in the course of a criminal investigation, confidential information furnished only by the confidential source;

(e) Disclose investigative techniques and procedures;

(f) Endanger the life or physical safety of law enforcement personnel; or

(g) Disclose the identity of a reporting party maintained by any law enforcement entity or the department of health and welfare relating to the investigation of child abuse, neglect or abandonment unless the reporting party consents in writing to the disclosure or the disclosure of the reporting party’s identity is required in any administrative or judicial proceeding."




I think we all need to remember ALL the Amendments are in place for a reason.

As much as we want to pick and choose which ones to adhere to, or shriek about, (1st Amendment on this thread) they're all important.

Therefore, 4th Amendment has to be on par with the 1st Amendment.

Just jumping off your post.

All JMO
 
A leather knife sheath - couldn't he have found a plastic one, or a rubber one.

I don't think plastic or rubber knife sheaths are something that are typically made for knives that size but if you're wondering about non leather options, there are a few options that one could order but it may take some time.

The leather sheath is sold with the knife and we don't really know his reason for vegan eating. I would also suggest that a vegan who is accused of literally slaughtering four humans but frets about a leather sheath strikes me as somewhat of an oddity.
 
I feel it is important that he have a fair trial so the victim's families and the community can find some sort of closure.
Yes - THIS! I don't think the people talking understand that their words could really jeopardize the case and actually work in the suspect's favor.

Everyone deserves a fair trial, yes even BCK. That last thing we need is for his case to be dismissed or thrown out.
 
I don't think plastic or rubber knife sheaths are something that are typically made for knives that size but if you're wondering about non leather options, there are a few options that one could order but it may take some time.

The leather sheath is sold with the knife and we don't really know his reason for vegan eating. I would also suggest that a vegan who is accused of literally slaughtering four humans but frets about a leather sheath strikes me as somewhat of an oddity.
I also don't think that a knife would slide very easily into a plastic or rubber sheath.
 
Just a guess, but when investigators investigated that latent print left at the crime secne (per PCA), they would have very likely been able to ascertain at least something about the size, although not enough info to be sure, and maybe not whole print and so forth and so on. MOO.

There is (or at least was a few years ago), an entire department in the FBI that does shoe print analysis. I assume they’re helping or already helped LE with identification of the latent print.

In another case I followed, a key piece of evidence was identifying a bloody shoe print (Hush Puppy certain model, size 12), and connecting it to a purchase made by the defendant at DSW. Of course the shoes were missing (defendant said they were “donated to Goodwill” of course). (There was interestingly, also a decoy bloody shoe print to throw off investigators IMO, and this guy wasn’t a criminology student.)

This is an old article but describes the shoe department at the FBI. It’s amazing what they can do. The Forensic Analysis of Footwear Impression Evidence
 
On the podcast The Murder Sheet that was linked here, a defense attorney talks about possible defenses like someone stealing his car and his cell phone. It was so interesting. He said that defense attorneys can't just throw out ideas without any evidence to back them up. If BK tried to say that someone stole his car and his phone all of those times that it was seen/pinged near the house, then he has to provide evidence to prove it. Did he file a police report for the stolen items? Does he have a witness that will testify to stealing the car? He said a judge will not allow these theories to be introduced to a jury without corroborating evidence.

Thank you to whoever linked that podcast. Both defense attorneys that were interviewed said the case is very strong, LE did a fantastic job, and it is their opinions that the best a defense attorney is going to be able to do for BK is to try and avoid the death penalty.
Well Jose Baez (Casey Anthony trial) certainly threw out wild speculations with NO evidence ever presented. And, apparently, it is not only allowed, but also effective.
 
There is (or at least was a few years ago), an entire department in the FBI that does shoe print analysis. I assume they’re helping or already helped LE with identification of the latent print.

In another case I followed, a key piece of evidence was identifying a bloody shoe print (Hush Puppy certain model, size 12), and connecting it to a purchase made by the defendant at DSW. Of course the shoes were missing (defendant said they were “donated to Goodwill” of course). (There was interestingly, also a decoy bloody shoe print to throw off investigators IMO, and this guy wasn’t a criminology student.)

This is an old article but describes the shoe department at the FBI. It’s amazing what they can do. The Forensic Analysis of Footwear Impression Evidence
Thanks so much for the link and sharing. These specialty areas are so fascinating, I only wish I had enough time to learn more. So much to learn....
 
I think someone has about the same luck with autocorrect that I do because there has been no mention of a machete otherwise.
BK's apartment search warrant mentions a sword which I found curious since the found sheath is for a KaBar knife and I doubt a sword with fit inside:


"Knives, sheaths, or other sharp tools, including any dagger, dirk, or sword, and any written indicia of ownership of same, including sales receipts."
 
The presumption of innocence is a necessary part of our judicial system, and if I was a juror, I would like to believe I could put aside any prejudice and look at the "evidence" presented by both sides equally. Each detail becomes part of the larger picture, and the larger picture is the story. However, if either side started to present me with a story that was so far reaching that I had to use a telescope to see the other end, I would be offended, and frankly, that would make it much harder for me to look at the "evidence" equally.

IMO, this is likely how many people would feel, and the defense would be doing a disservice to their client if they presented an explanation too outside the box for a typical juror to feel comfortable considering. JMO.
 
BK's apartment search warrant mentions a sword which I found curious since the found sheath is for a KaBar knife and I doubt a sword with fit inside:


"Knives, sheaths, or other sharp tools, including any dagger, dirk, or sword, and any written indicia of ownership of same, including sales receipts."
I had to look up the definition of dirk. Lord have mercy. That sentence is chilling. What the hell happened in that house to those poor people?
 
The leather sheath is sold with the knife and we don't really know his reason for vegan eating. I would also suggest that a vegan who is accused of literally slaughtering four humans but frets about a leather sheath strikes me as somewhat of an oddity.
A vegan might suggest that any carnivore who is responsile for the killing of countless animals but frets about the slaughter of four human being might strike him or her as something of an oddity.

(I'm not a vegan; I'm merely trying to look at things from a vegan's perspective.)
 
BK's apartment search warrant mentions a sword which I found curious since the found sheath is for a KaBar knife and I doubt a sword with fit inside:


"Knives, sheaths, or other sharp tools, including any dagger, dirk, or sword, and any written indicia of ownership of same, including sales receipts."
I noted that, as well. My first thought was that they are all "fixed" blades, which is what LE was looking for, right? I don't know much about knives, but it did give me pause.

The few things we've seen said from family and the coroner really signaled a large weapon that did a lot more damage than the puncture of a smaller knife. JMO.
 
Yes - THIS! I don't think the people talking understand that their words could really jeopardize the case and actually work in the suspect's favor.

Everyone deserves a fair trial, yes even BCK. That last thing we need is for his case to be dismissed or thrown out.

I had a family member murdered several years ago and I know better than most that while a trial may be difficult, watching someone smile and walk away a free man is exponentially worse.

I do understand that SG feels that he's doing the absolute best he can as an advocate for his daughter and I also understand why other families prefer to not deal with the media. Both are doing what feels right for them and I would suggest that each of them strongly desire justice.

My concerns lie with media and social media statements from unnamed sources that may or may not know anything and may or may not be telling the truth. Even if it doesn't taint a trial, it does cause lies, half truths and possibly truths to all become accepted as fact, which affects public opinion and likely ties up LE resources chasing down mysterious leads and half baked ideas.
 
Is that odd? I don't know so I'm asking.

The part I find most interesting is the gag order on the defense attorney concerning his opinion. Haven't defense attorneys always made comments such as, "My client is innocent," and the like?

It seems to me that there has been such a huge amount of detrimental coverage in this case (to BK), that it's going to be challenging for them to find an impartial jury. Or, give him what our laws deem a fair trial.

But now, even the defense attorney cannot publicly defend the client? Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems slightly odd.

Defense attorneys have not always made statements like that. And perhaps this one doesn't care to at this point.

At any rate, there's no way a judge would allow just one party to the action to speak in public any time they wanted and all the others could not. At least, that would be rare as hen's teeth.

It won't be challenging to find a qualified jury. Jury selection processes have changed a lot in the last 20-25 years. No one expects a jury to be completely clear of all "media contamination," just that they swear they will uphold the law and use only the facts presented in court. A person who said they had followed the case closely and already formed a firm opinion would be excused, I'd wager. But the vast majority of people are not in that category, not in Moscow or any place else.

The key word is "publicly" defend. Basically this judge is saying "no speaking directly to the public." What would be the point of such a thing, except to try and influence a future jury even more? Slowing the roll of all the parties is probably desirable. I don't see a downside to it, except that we websleuthers don't get as much to talk about it.
 
On the new Gag generally: I am not a lawyer and this is only my reading of this, but are not the "Parties" to the matter (The charge of murder)" the State of Idaho and Bryan Kohnberger? To my reading, state of idaho parties are law enforcement involved currently or previouslyand any other authority involved past or present in the case - coroner for e.g?. Otherwise the additional gag applies to Attorneys of the accused (past and present in this matter),Attorneys of the state and *Attorneys of the families of the deceased and witnesses (roomates Attorneys if any) MOO.IDK, I could be missing something vital here but that is the way document reads to me. MOO JMVHO
The order is not limited to the formal parties (the state and BK). It includes:

"The attorneys for any interested party in this case, including the prosecuting attorney, defense attorney, and any attorney representing a witness. victim, or victim‘s family. as well as the parties to the above entitled action, including but not limited to investigators, law enforcement personal, and agents for the prosecuting attorney or defense attorney..."

The order further states:

"...that no individual covered by this order shall avoid its proscriptions by actions directly or indirectly, but deliberately, that result in violating this order."

It covers pretty much anyone likely to have inside information about the case. MOO
 
I wonder what BK's dad thought watching his son clean the interior of his car excessively for 5 hours...and then not even wash the outside.
It wouldn't be unusual to clean the interior of your car after a long, cross-country trip and later go to a car wash to clean the exterior. So I doubt his parents would have found this odd at all.
 
lol, actually probably three "trash events".
-Dad's trash in PA
-BK's trash to match Dad's DNA
-Neighbors trash (hopefully, after car cleaning and full of victims blood)
...imo

They had BK's DNA from the knife sheath. All they needed was the paternal DNA from the trash to match. Done.

Since the whole point of this exercise was to confirm that a person named BK who lived in Pullman was indeed the person who left a knife sheath next to two knife murder victims, that's all they needed. They did not need BK's trash (which if he disposed of it carefully would be mixed with a bunch of other student trash).

Upon determining that the sheath DNA belonged to the only son of Mr K, they issued a PCA. When they arrested BK, they took his DNA for the 100% match.

They had BK on their radar because on Day 1 of the investigation and in the next 2 days following, they got all that camera footage of the Elantra, and then, the WSU campus police alerted Moscow PD about the Steptoe Elantra somewhere around Nov 28 (two weeks into the investigation, approximate). They could have gotten his DNA off the car, but clearly did not want to alert him or send anyone snooping around. BK could have had cameras on his car, too (apparently didn't though).

The trash at the neighbor's has surely been examined for victim DNA, as you say.
 
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