ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 68

[BeginnerSleuther]

It's rarely sudden.

In Truman Capote's classic, In Cold Blood, the key person who led to solving the case waited to speak up, until encouraged by someone with, shall we say, morals?

He remembered earlier, but kept it to himself because he was scared.

People sometimes need support to speak out. Most victims do. It's well known.

This person isn't a victim, that we know of. And this person didn't speak to LE. I don't think we can equate victim behavior (such as DM, for example) and telling LE to what a random waiter tells the media people looking for a hot lead.

MOO.

 

[BingoBongo]

Yes.

Thanks, was going to post their article re Instagram, but wasn't sure. See now that someone else already posted it tho'.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Does it also apply to the attorney in Pa?

You mean LaBar, his court-appointed PA <modsnip> attorney?

I hope so. We've heard enough from him.
JMVHO

 

[10ofRods]

IMO I agree with those who feel this is important, at least circumstantially.

To me it shows consciousness of guilt. He, Mr. Criminology, may have assumed at some point he could be tracked down, and that LE (especially the FBI) would rummage through his trash in search of DNA.

Hence, stash the trash where he figured LE would not look, and therefore his matching DNA may be missed.

But he was being surveilled by the FBI as he did it.

Just speculation, IMO MOO

That's what I would assume if I were the FBI agents assigned to watch him day and night. Because he was a suspect in a quadruple homicide.

I would assume that my job was to watch him and deal with anything that resulted in evidence.

I think people are conflating two things (the surveillance officers seeing BK walk over to a neighbor's trash can in the wee hours of the morning and dump trash) and the FBI going through the trash in search of paternal DNA (any trash would do; you'd want the trash from the actual address).

The guy (BK) apparently thought this nifty maneuver would accomplish something. OR, he'd already stuffed his parents' trash too full and he thought it was okay to use the neighbor's resources.

At any rate, he likes going around at 4 am and performing actions that raise suspicion.

 

[Annicade]

Don't need a warrant to search trash.

"The Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the warrantless search and seizure of garbage left for collection outside the curtilage of a home"

California v. Greenwood, 486 U.S. 35 (1988)​

Great to know. I knew that in PA you could and thought it varied state by state. I just researched a few cases and see a few states agreed that it was a violation but then the Supreme Court overturned it. https://supremecourt.flcourts.gov/content/download/241730/file/TrashSearch06.pdf

 

[10ofRods]

This person isn't a victim, that we know of. And this person didn't speak to LE. I don't think we can equate victim behavior (such as DM, for example) and telling LE to what a random waiter tells the media people looking for a hot lead.

MOO.

I'm not interested right now in parsing what a person is. You mean the four dead students, right" As "Victims"?

Are you arguing that the average American citizen is not allowed freedom to speak to reporters or anyone else they choose?

Who in the world would equate statements from possible witnesses with DNA? Srsly, who ever implied that?

My point is that people believed a random reporter who talked to someone even more anonymous than "former employee."

I am not about drawing equations among possible sources of information, I just note who says what and was very unimpressed with the reporter who said they talked to "staff" and there was CERTAINTY that BK had never been in MadGreek. Sounds like local Chamber of Commerce reporting (our businesses don't have mass murderers!)

I think giving an identifier (former employee - which current employees might guess) is better than "staff." IMO.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616222589583777793

So I'm looking at the expanded gag order and thinking attorneys for the family and private investigators ("agents") are the ones doing the talking.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Not sure what you mean by "go to familial DNA".

They had the DNA from the sheath - Suspect Profile.
They had the DNA from the trash at the house where Kohberger was staying.
They compared them and found that the DNA from the trash was 99.99998% likely to be the father of the Suspect Profile.

I think that's the familial DNA to which our fellow sleuther was referring.... obtaining a family members DNA to compare it with the sample retrieved from the scene to confirm whether they have the right guy. I'm sure there is a more scientific way to state or explain it but that's the jist of it. All MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thread is fast moving again. Last thread there was discussion of references for the trash pickup. It was in the affidavit, page 18.

December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28, 2022, the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profile obtained from the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the biological father of Suspect Profile. At least 99.9998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

It was also in Newsweek.

Bryan Kohberger Updates: Chilling new details released in Idaho murders

Details surrounding the murders of four University of Idaho students in November were released today as suspect Bryan Kohberger appeared in an Idaho courtroom.

www.newsweek.com

DNA from Trash Links Kohberger to Crime​

[…]
On Dec. 27, 2022, police in Pennsylvania collected evidence from the trash outside Kohberger’s parents' home in Albrightsville, PA, according to the affidavit.

The evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. One day later, it was determined that the DNA profile obtained from the trash matched the DNA from the knife sheath found in one of the victim's bed. Investigators determined the trash DNA sample was a near-perfect match to the father of the suspect profile.

and ABC News

Idaho murders suspect was seen throwing out trash in neighbors' bins​

Federal investigators saw Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger throw out garbage into neighbors' trash bins in the middle of the night in Pennsylvania in the days leading up to his arrest.​

January 10, 2023​

Video Idaho murders suspect was seen throwing out trash in neighbors' bins

Federal investigators saw Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger throw out garbage into neighbors' trash bins in the middle of the night in Pennsylvania in the days leading up to his arrest.

abcnews.go.com

 

[XtremeScorpio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616175468503334912

Same with other sm accounts

 

[CSIDreamer]

Same with other sm accounts

What do you mean?

 

[XtremeScorpio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616218460937408512

My gosh, they keep this up, it's only a matter of time they keep US from discussing the case. Lol

 

[WingsOverTX]

This person isn't a victim, that we know of. And this person didn't speak to LE. I don't think we can equate victim behavior (such as DM, for example) and telling LE to what a random waiter tells the media people looking for a hot lead.

MOO.

The ex-staffer at Mad Greek has a 1st amendment right to speak to anyone, including a reporter, about anything he knows. If he can provide corroboration of some kind, that's better, of course. But if not, believing him is a judgment call by media consumers.

Employers in the U.S. have no legal right to tell employees what they can or cannot say to the media. Of course, they do so anyway.

We haven't seen any LE-released evidence from Mad Greek.

It's important to allow "hot leads" into the public sphere IMO. I would not like living in a society where legal threats to silence rights to speech were the norm.

Reference: Private employers: You can’t forbid your workers from talking to journalists

Private employers: You can't forbid your workers from talking to journalists - Poynter

From person-to-person coaching and intensive hands-on seminars to interactive online courses and media reporting, Poynter helps journalists sharpen skills and elevate storytelling throughout their careers.

www.poynter.org

MOO, etc.....

 

[XtremeScorpio]

What do you mean?

There were several accounts claiming to be BK; many of which have since been deleted/taken down/removed.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

There's a fine balance between allowing rampant speculation that he is innocent (sometimes by bizarre theories) and gagging people who actually know the facts (prosecution; defense; LE, etc).

The prosecution and the defense are gagged in order to prevent trying the case in the press, where there is no presumption of innocence and no way to keep out information (true or not) that would NOT be admissible. That jeopardizes the rights of the accused to a fair trial. On the other hand, the state (which represents the victims, their families and us) needs to be able to put together evidence for trial without the defense tainting the jury pool with theories and stuff that will never be admissible at trial. In a typical trial (let's say of a person who shoots a neighbor) no one is leaking stuff to People magazine or the Daily Mail and so people like us get no information at all.

Unless BK confesses, what we can know is what is in court filings, what is presented in hearings, and finally what makes it to trial. It's hard but we must be patient if we are to see justice.

 

[10ofRods]

There were several accounts claiming to be BK; many of which have since been deleted/taken down/removed.

But none of those are what we're discussing. Those appeared after he was known to the public.

This one appeared three weeks before the murders. No one knew who he was or that there was someone named BK (unless it was broadly known in Moscow/Pullman and students were already onto him and impersonating him).

Otherwise, there was ANOTHER person invading the SM space of at least one of the murdered women. Both are interesting possibilities.

 

[layer]

I think that's the familial DNA to which our fellow sleuther was referring.... obtaining a family members DNA to compare it with the sample retrieved from the scene to confirm whether they have the right guy. I'm sure there is a more scientific way to state or explain it but that's the jist of it. All MOO

I guess, I just don't think they intentionally obtained a family member's DNA to compare. BK was staying there, I assume they were trying to get his DNA but wound up with his father's DNA (which proved to be 99.9998% as good.)

Semantics, I guess.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

But none of those are what we're discussing. Those appeared after he was known to the public.

This one appeared three weeks before the murders. No one knew who he was or that there was someone named BK (unless it was broadly known in Moscow/Pullman and students were already onto him and impersonating him).

Otherwise, there was ANOTHER person invading the SM space of at least one of the murdered women. Both are interesting possibilities.

The ones I'm referring to are the ones that were open before he was arrested.

There were also those accts that were suspected to be him, but using an alias or pseudonym. A few of those linked back to him in some way shape or form from years before.

This new Twitter story reminded me of this story, as one example:

Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

Former FBI investigator Jennifer Coffindaffer suggested that suspect Bryan Kohberger joined social media discussion groups about the Idaho murders.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[10ofRods]

The prosecution and the defense are gagged in order to prevent trying the case in the press, where there is no presumption of innocence and no way to keep out information (true or not) that would NOT be admissible. That jeopardizes the rights of the accused to a fair trial. On the other hand, the state (which represents the victims, their families and us) needs to be able to put together evidence for trial without the defense tainting the jury pool with theories and stuff that will never be admissible at trial. In a typical trial (let's say of a person who shoots a neighbor) no one is leaking stuff to People magazine or the Daily Mail and so people like us get no information at all.

Unless BK confesses, what we can know is what is in court filings, what is presented in hearings, and finally what makes it to trial. It's hard but we must be patient if we are to see justice.

I disagree slightly. If someone contacts me and gives me their actual identity and wants to talk about this case, I'm listening. I do believe SG knows something and I will never stop listening to the voices of the victim's families or to members of the communities affected by crime.

None of what people are saying on SM is going to have massive influence on the trial. Sure, it's possible that one person who is incapable of following the rules of court might get seated on the jury, but that can happen with or without people making public comment.

Public comment on public life must be permitted. It's odd to even have the conversation.

I can know things that aren't in court filings. WS has rules, but the rules of WS are not the entire rules of epistemology (which are under separate debate). I do know things that are not in court filings. Most of us do.

 

[layer]

IMO I agree with those who feel this is important, at least circumstantially.

To me it shows consciousness of guilt. He, Mr. Criminology, may have assumed at some point he could be tracked down, and that LE (especially the FBI) would rummage through his trash in search of DNA.

Hence, stash the trash where he figured LE would not look, and therefore his matching DNA may be missed.

But he was being surveilled by the FBI as he did it.

Just speculation, IMO MOO

I think it's important too. I just don't know that it's it's true. When it is verified by a named source I'll believe it. Until then, I take it as filler for a slow news day.