ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 68

[Valen2]

So do we know for a fact there was a connection between BK and the victims? I know there was talk of him messaging one of the victims and about him possibly eating at the Mad Greek where two of them worked. But there is so much speculation being thrown around it's hard to tell what is fact and what is rumor.

People Magazine has published several articles over the past few days that claim that he did message one of the victims repeatedly on IG. The article says that People has seen the messages and confirmed they started in October. They published another article yesterday saying that he did order food at the Mad Greek and made a big deal about his vegan pizza not touching any equipment used to make it not also being used to cook food that contained animal products.

It depends on if you see People as a trustworthy source. People in the journalism industry have said that People does not pay for interviews and that they confirm sources before printing stories.

 

[Sundog]

So do we know for a fact there was a connection between BK and the victims? I know there was talk of him messaging one of the victims and about him possibly eating at the Mad Greek where two of them worked. But there is so much speculation being thrown around it's hard to tell what is fact and what is rumor.

IMO, the reports about the Mad Greek restaurant and BK seeing one or two of the victims there are just rumor based on an ex-employee of the restaurant saying that he saw BK order vegan pizza there. This statement is coming out now, although the restaurant owner has been reported as saying that none of his employees recall seeing BK ever at the restaurant.

Also, it is still unclear if BK was the person who sent DM's to one of the victim's IG account.

So until I see this from LE, I am sceptical of both.

 

[CGray123]

I haven't seen any reporting that Maddie was being stalked, only some reports that perhaps Kaylee was being stalked.

In addition, at this point we don't know for sure if BK tried to contact one of the victims on their social media accounts, so far not confirmed by LE, just rumored in MSM.

We also have no LE or MSM reporting that Maddie was mutilated when murdered. I think that speculation developed from some remarks that SG (father of Kaylee) may have made and it was interpreted by some MSM that way. I don't recall we ever saw or heard this stated by the coroner or ME.

It's also possible the house on King Road was ultimately targeted (and not necessarily the individuals who lived there), as a location that BK selected to to carry out a mass murder with notoriety to follow.

JMO.

I misstated, intending to identify KG as the targeted victim IMO - sorry about that!

I could be wrong and you could be right. Just sayin what I think and why. Appreciate your views as well.

 

[amaraya]

MOO- I agree with this. Infatuation may have started with one girl… but once he began stalking her and the house… everyone there represented the same thing to him and they all became targets.

Except the 2 survivors. Especially DM and he would know that she was there...

 

[ray9898]

Unfortunately this is turning into a prime example why LE should withhold investigative information from the families. It can seem cold but it needs to be done.

The family by all means should be discussing the memory of their loved ones in the media if they so desire, however discussing unreleased evidence even through their attorney isn't really helping anyone or ensuring a successful trial.

 

[Curiosa20]

Not at all.

I'm saying they didn't have to wait until BK took the family trash to the neighbor's to obtain the family's trash and test it for DNA.

I'm also saying the odds BK was going to throw anything, evidence-wise, away at that point is stretching it.

Thirdly, due to the layout of the neighborhood--the houses setting so far back from the road--it would be difficult to watch the Kohberger's house without being seen. I could be wrong, but the driveway seems to abut a main branch road, where parking likely isn't allowed (MOO). Being LE, they could still likely park there, but they would be highly noticeable. So, they could have (most likely) parked in one of the driveways on the opposite side of the road.

It's also likely the trash bins were next to the houses in the middle of the night. This is just MOO, but where I live, residents do not pull the bins out to the road until morning, and then they pull them back before dark.

As I said before, I don't disbelieve LE got into the trash, I just question where the bins were in the middle of the night and where LE parked to allow them to see what was happening.

I’m late to this thread party so excuse me if this thought has already been suggested.
Why would LE not set up or utilize an already existing camera to track movements around the house? He was apparently caught on camera wearing gloves and taking trash out at 4 AM.

I was struck by the coordinated surveillance that was set up with LE in PA to identify his car and local PA LE, so precisely that the driver matched a description of BCK while captured while driving on the streets of Albrightsville, per the background detailed in the search warrant request in Washington.
I don’t think they needed to park LE out in his neighborhood but who knows? Maybe they used an unmarked van parked in a neighbor’s driveway. Christmas chaos, visitors, unobtrusive vehicle may not have caused much attention. IMO

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger cleaned car, was seen wearing surgical gloves, source says

In one instance prior to Kohberger's arrest, authorities observed him leaving his family home around 4 a.m. and putting trash bags in the neighbors' garbage bins, according to the source.

6abc.com

 

[Sjöberg]

BK's apartment search warrant mentions a sword which I found curious since the found sheath is for a KaBar knife and I doubt a sword with fit inside:
"Knives, sheaths, or other sharp tools, including any dagger, dirk, or sword, and any written indicia of ownership of same, including sales receipts."

My first thought was that they are all "fixed" blades, which is what LE was looking for, right?

I think it was just boilerplate/precaution. I have not ruled out a secondary weapon, but I think/hope that's rather unlikely.

I genuinely believe either X or M was his server in august, September or early October and simply by being nice and polite they attracted his attention which turned into obsession. Which turned deadly.

As the stalkinkg is already documented in late August and possibly earlier, this does raise the question where were the victims and what were they doing in August, July and even June. Do we know if they worked during the summer?

4. Unlike the other victims who were stabbed to death, MG was also mutilated.

MOO: Now this is news to me. Sure, I saw all the rumours, especially that it was "inspired" by Gainesville murders by Rolling - he also used the Ka-Bar and did mutilate Hoyt. But I don't think there has been any even remotely official information about anyone being mutilated.

 

[10ofRods]

I wasn't debating. I agree, both descriptions could mean the same, maybe with added slicing. Also, he could have been the forth victim and killed when the perp was tired. I do think that because they had to determine his injuries later may indicate he was in a position that they could not determine his injuries before autopsy. JMO

Well, at least they couldn't determine them before moving his body from its initial position (a decision that gets made at some point in the investigation but probably not by 4 pm on Sunday).

I hope I didn't imply YOU were debating - but there does seem to be some concern about the use of these various terms.

I think Ethan was found in the narrow area between the bed and the wall, personally, which is why his injuries were not as visible. I also think that Xana is the only victim whose blood BK stepped into, but I don't hold that with 99% certainty. It's also possible that Kaylee's injuries resulted in blood on one of his shoes. All of this is known by LE at this time, who surely saw at least a couple of bloody diamond pattern foot prints, as there were latent prints.

 

[Sleuth2010]

MOO-

I’ve been responding to posts here this afternoon on all of that thinking the same thing. Am I responding on my thoughts about the people magazine article and reports on MG restaurant confirming he came in a few times as facts when it could just be speculation and unconfirmed?..

In my opinion the new information from People about the IG messages and from information about MG restaurant source confirming that BK did come in…, should still be considered as speculative till LE/Court confirms. Which they aren’t right now due to gag orders.

I think it’s very risky for people to report things if there is no truth to it. Same goes for MG restaurant informant.

With all the gag orders right now. It’s unfortunate that the public has to wonder if any of the MSM information on the case released is accurate or factual or more speculation.

MOO- I tend to think there is some truth in a lot of it… and have to remind myself that MSM doesn’t mean it’s confirmed or fully factual.

Pretty sure (imo, moo, omo, lmnop) that PEOPLE magazine has a good defense P.I. or info., and that as thrashy as some press, these truths do out. Detectives and law enforcement do not have to tell the truth to the public. They can factually lie outright... part of making a stronger case. Heart aches for the LovingIdaho4.

 

[tara83]

Unfortunately this is turning into a prime example why LE should withhold investigative information from the families. It can seem cold but it needs to be done.

The family by all means should be discussing the memory of their loved ones in the media if they so desire, however discussing unreleased evidence even through their attorney isn't really helping anyone or ensuring a successful trial.

To be fair we have no clue who the source was that released the PEOPLE info.

 

[ray9898]

To be fair we have no clue who the source was that released the PEOPLE info.

Sure....but the wording of the new gag order is telling.

 

[Miss Jennifer]

I’m late to this thread party so excuse me if this thought has already been suggested.
Why would LE not set up or utilize an already existing camera to track movements around the house? He was apparently caught on camera wearing gloves and taking trash out at 4 AM.

I was struck by the coordinated surveillance that was set up with LE in PA to identify his car and local PA LE, so precisely that the driver matched a description of BCK while captured while driving on the streets of Albrightsville, per the background detailed in the search warrant request in Washington.
I don’t think they needed to park LE out in his neighborhood but who knows? Maybe they used an unmarked van parked in a neighbor’s driveway. Christmas chaos, visitors, unobtrusive vehicle may not have caused much attention. IMO

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger cleaned car, was seen wearing surgical gloves, source says

In one instance prior to Kohberger's arrest, authorities observed him leaving his family home around 4 a.m. and putting trash bags in the neighbors' garbage bins, according to the source.

6abc.com

This was released after the first gag order from another undisclosed "source."

Any of us can cite from undisclosed "sources," also known as hearsay. Hell, even disclosed sources twist the truth. I only trust what Idaho LE releases here and both PA and WA LE.

MOO

 

[EBW321]

Except the 2 survivors. Especially DM and he would know that she was there...

The 2 survivors thing baffles me completely.

Especially the fact that he came face to face with DM.

MOO- I’ve watched multiple LE/FBI interviews on this specific question on MSM and they all have different opinions on it.

Many agree the entire house was a target… but due to complications with his plan… (2 girls in the same room, Ethan also being there, the fact that it appears a few of them fought back which he may not have expected… more noise was made than planned… possibly the knife itself broke… or maybe even was too tired and exerted more energy than he knew he’d need and realized

Pretty sure (imo, moo, omo, lmnop) that PEOPLE magazine has a good defense P.I. or info., and that as thrashy as some press, these truths do out. Detectives and law enforcement do not have to tell the truth to the public. They can factually lie outright... part of making a stronger case. Heart aches for the LovingIdaho4.

I agree with you on this a great deal.

 

[10ofRods]

I’m late to this thread party so excuse me if this thought has already been suggested.
Why would LE not set up or utilize an already existing camera to track movements around the house? He was apparently caught on camera wearing gloves and taking trash out at 4 AM.

I was struck by the coordinated surveillance that was set up with LE in PA to identify his car and local PA LE, so precisely that the driver matched a description of BCK while captured while driving on the streets of Albrightsville, per the background detailed in the search warrant request in Washington.
I don’t think they needed to park LE out in his neighborhood but who knows? Maybe they used an unmarked van parked in a neighbor’s driveway. Christmas chaos, visitors, unobtrusive vehicle may not have caused much attention. IMO

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger cleaned car, was seen wearing surgical gloves, source says

In one instance prior to Kohberger's arrest, authorities observed him leaving his family home around 4 a.m. and putting trash bags in the neighbors' garbage bins, according to the source.

6abc.com

Good point. They probably did. Probably had little trail cams all around.

 

[SRWCF]

Unfortunately this is turning into a prime example why LE should withhold investigative information from the families. It can seem cold but it needs to be done.

The family by all means should be discussing the memory of their loved ones in the media if they so desire, however discussing unreleased evidence even through their attorney isn't really helping anyone or ensuring a successful trial.

I said something similar on Twitter and was told I was "bashing" the families. I was not.

 

[Lilly b]

Reportedly, BK ordered vegan pizza and his order was noteworthy because he wanted reassurance no animal products would be in contact with his food.

Bryan Kohberger ate vegan pizza at restaurant where victims worked

The man accused of killing the four University of Idaho students ate vegan pizza in a nearby Greek restaurant where two of them worked.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The former employee told People that Kohberger's visits to the restaurant were not suspicious but they were noteworthy because he wanted to be sure that no animal products might have come in contact with his food.

In late December a relative told The New York Post Kohberger is 'OCD' about his eating habits and forced his family to buy new pots that not been used to cook meat.

Just a thought after reading this post and replies. His OCD could explain putting rubbish in bins with gloves on ?

 

[SRWCF]

Just a thought after reading this post and replies. His OCD could explain putting rubbish in bins with gloves on ?

From reading the search warrant for his apartment, it certainly doesn't sound like he has OCD to me, at least not for cleanliness! All sorts of items with red stains (which is most likely blood) seem kind of odd for a tidy fellow to keep around.

 

[Nila Aella]

Well, at least they couldn't determine them before moving his body from its initial position (a decision that gets made at some point in the investigation but probably not by 4 pm on Sunday).

I hope I didn't imply YOU were debating - but there does seem to be some concern about the use of these various terms.

I think Ethan was found in the narrow area between the bed and the wall, personally, which is why his injuries were not as visible. I also think that Xana is the only victim whose blood BK stepped into, but I don't hold that with 99% certainty. It's also possible that Kaylee's injuries resulted in blood on one of his shoes. All of this is known by LE at this time, who surely saw at least a couple of bloody diamond pattern foot prints, as there were latent prints.

I was only providing the link you requested from scottishgal since she didn't have it handy, I should have stated so in my post.

SInce they included it in the PCA that his injury was later determined, I also thought it might be because of what he was wearing? Or maybe they didn't want to disturb the evidence by searching for the injury, especially if there was a lot of blood? JMO

I think the same about Ethan, since the PCA noted that Xana was seen first during walk through. Hoping that they do have more prints. Seems like they should to me.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

edit Corrected spelling of Ethan
edit: Corrected Scottishgal's name

 

[elidar]

I see your point and I agree that social media will probably not have an influence. But leaking investigation information to mainstream media is--I think--an abuse of the grace we should and do extend to grieving families. Of course, we should listen to the voices of the families but not--NOT--at the expense of giving the accused a fair trial, including the prosecution's shot at convicting a mass killer.

I have zero problem with anyone here or on Reddit or Twitter speaking up about the case. That is, indeed "public comment on public life." I have a big problem with the grandstanding attorneys of any stripe who are either involved with the case or repping those who are leaking stuff to the mainstream media for their own purposes. Once the trial starts, anyone can comment on this aspect of public life; it's just irresponsible for principles in the case or their representative to comment before trial. MOO. I lived with a reporter for a decade and he knew many things he never printed because publishing what he knew was not in the public interest, e.g., knowing who was a suspect in a crime before the arrest, when publishing would have allowed the criminal to flee.

And--a big MOO here--I don't think I have a right to know everything the police, the prosecution or the defense may know before trial. It's not uncommon to have some conflict between two Constitutional rights; conflicts between the freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion go back to the founding. Freedom of speech can be curtailed if said speech endangers the public (crying "fire" in a crowded theater is the usual example).

Attorneys are "officers of the court" hence they must abide by certain rules to promote the cause of justice- that the general public do not have these restrictions just an ethical compass one hopes.

officer of the court

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[10ofRods]

Yep. KG, not MG - thank you!

The police did walk it back - sorta. The press release dated 11-30-2022 contains the following obfuscatory statement:

"Regarding the interview with Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson, we feel his responses were messaged to support the implication that new information had been released. Specifically, generalized statements regarding the potential of targeted victims and the involvement of drugs were redefined into an affirmative answer.

At this time, there is no change or new information in this case, and references otherwise would be inaccurate. We ask the public to refer to the Moscow Police Department website for any updates on the investigation."

I could be wrong, of course, but I'm still going with KG (thanks again) as the target of BK's premeditated attack, based on the factors I listed. The others were incidental, not premeditated [because they were killed in the course of other crimes, the charges for their deaths will still be First Degree Murder - as Felony Murder.].

I think this is one of our more interesting discussion topics. I still have "he targeted no one" on my card, but I also have "he targeted 1 or more specific persons" on my card.

It has troubled me all along that Kaylee left suddenly in the middle of the semester, telling her mother she could do all her capstone courses online (probably true; but when a course starts out on the ground, a student typically has to give a valid reason for changing to online, such as illness or work issues, otherwise students would be in and out of classes, classes would be forced to be hybrids, and the prof would have no control over these behaviors). Typically capstone courses must be in person, unless disability or illness makes it impossible. Anxiety would be a valid reason, for me anyway (it's up to the prof).

She comes back after 10 days with a new car. There was a pre-party at the house on Friday night, AFAIK. I believe BK was coming over to U of ID on weekends frequently, possibly parking in the neighborhood to visit Greek Row. I do not believe that each house on Greek row was completely exclusive to its members, as I've seen instagram photos from several houses that say otherwise. It would have been a good question to ask the Sigma Chi president when he was interviewed by a journalist.

By now, I'm sure LE knows exactly what the situation was with BK and U of ID "stalking" (quotes because he isn't charged with stalking).

I also have "he came to rape and not to kill, at least in his own conscious mind" on my card, but I think that's a distant third.

The interesting discussion is who, exactly, if anyone he targeted. InsideLooking (whose identity is very doubtful; very probably not BK - but possibly is, as the timestamp/travel issue was never worked out here - we don't know what time zone the reddit posts were stamped to, as the timestamp will be the timezone of the person reading and copying reddit, not universal time). But I'll put InsideLooking aside (claims Maddie and Xana were the targets).

If this news that BK was following all three girls is true, then I have that on my card as well (he figured he could enter that house and find at least one of them there). The unnamed source seems to indicate that he was messaging one girl in particular and that it was KG, IIRC.