ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 69

[r3d-ros3]

What's described in the link doesn't sound that neutral.

It also seems weird to me to drag a criminology TA rather than a law student into that and expect them to debate it like a lawyer. It would be great prep for a law student, for sure. But BK was not a law student. Maybe he arranged that with BK and BK was totally fine with it, but what is being described in that article doesn't seem like a neutral, no-feelings-hurt exercise in debate to me. It reads more like a rather pointed message at an overbearing TA, one that was intended to put him in his place and make a rather lasting impression when it comes to grades. MOO

Yeah, this additional source actually makes it worse to me. IMO.

 

[Sillybilly]

<modsnip>

I think that this article is fine because it doesn’t name the parent or the charges and is an approved source. And it says she represented two parents!!! Not sure if they’re the parents of the same victim or two different victims but this is just wild to me:

Kohberger attorney represented parent of victim in Moscow homicides before taking his case

“Each lawyer needs to assess the possibility of a conflict with the ethical rule in front of her, and talk with clients,” a veteran legal expert said.

news.yahoo.com

"In that case, as well as another where the parent faces two felony charges ..."

I interpret that to mean the same parent but on other charges.

 

[TeaTime]

The Perp was a PhD candidate. He better be able to justify his position on grades and point out errors to students who are there to learn, not teach. Where is it said that he was humiliated? Maybe he defended his position very well and thinks the students are idiots (which is possible).

 

[sleuth.sloth]

"In that case, as well as another where the parent faces two felony charges ..."

I interpret that to mean the same parent but on other charges.

The part I was referring to was “Taylor’s office also has represented another parent of a Moscow homicides victim in four criminal cases since she became chief public defender. In two cases, online court records name Taylor as an “inactive” attorney.”

It clearly states her office and that she was not directly involved but lots of conflicts here imo

(Edit: well… I think that’s what it states? Not an attorney!)

 

[Dr.Watson]

I just finished watching an old episode of Forensic Files that I had not seen before - it gave me chills with all the similarities, and I was wondering if maybe it was a case that BK studied earlier in his criminology courses, and modeled some of his “planning” on? It’s the Eric Copple case from Napa where 2 roommates were stabbed to death on an upper floor, and a third roommate downstairs was spared, also her dog! So creepily similar… MOO

Eric Copple – Forensic Files Now

forensicfilesnow.com

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I thought Ms Taylor might be more sympathetic toward the <modsnip> parent than BK. If she's biased at all.

My thought and concern is that BK might use her ties to the parents to his advantage. Would that not open an avenue for BK to complain if he were found guilty? Would he not claim that he had inadequate representation and ask for a mistrial or retrial (or whatever the correct legal terms are)?

 

[r3d-ros3]

The Perp was a PhD candidate. He better be able to justify his position on grades and point out errors to students who are there to learn, not teach. Where is it said that he was humiliated? Maybe he defended his position very well and thinks the students are idiots (which is possible).

The "humiliation" factor is pure speculation, although I can certainly understand a first semester PhD student (he wasn't a candidate, not for a few years) feeling humiliated in front of a group of undergraduate students he is giving grades to, at the behest of the professor. IMO -- PhD students who TA, grade, or teach their own classes are often very inexperienced and universities do little to prepare them. This is a question of professionalism and I think the situation could have been handled differently. IMO.

 

[Chloegirl]

My thought and concern is that BK might use her ties to the parents to his advantage. Would that not open an avenue for BK to complain if he were found guilty? Would he not claim that he had inadequate representation and ask for a mistrial or retrial (or whatever the correct legal terms are)?

I should think so. JMHO.

 

[AlisRedHat]

Ethical defense attorneys are not supposed to lie to the court. They can't present a defense if they know it is false. They can't lie to the court. They can poke holes in the prosecution's case. They can challenge evidence. They can bring in experts to argue that there is a possibility - regardless of how small - that there could be another outcome. But overall, ETHICAL defense attorneys/public defenders can't present information that they know for a fact is a lie.

They can also present alternative theories (without experts).

 

[Idaho transplant]

I just finished watching an old episode of Forensic Files that I had not seen before - it gave me chills with all the similarities, and I was wondering if maybe it was a case that BK studied earlier in his criminology courses, and modeled some of his “planning” on? It’s the Eric Copple case from Napa where 2 roommates were stabbed to death on an upper floor, and a third roommate downstairs was spared, also her dog! So creepily similar… MOO

Eric Copple – Forensic Files Now

forensicfilesnow.com

Eric Copple specifically targeted one of the women because she was trying to convince her best friend, engaged to Eric,
to get away from him. The other woman upstairs was collateral damage. If I remember correctly, the third roommate
ran out the back door. But, you're right, there are similarities. That case was solved with DNA. He left an unusual
brand of cigarette butts on the ground, not the brightest murderer.

 

[flowershop]

This article states that BK's public defender has represented two victims' parents. And one of the parents was being represented by her up until BK's first court appearance!

Quote from the article:

It is unclear whether Kohberger is aware of his attorney’s prior connection to the parents of two of the four students he is accused of killing.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271507917.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Cool Cats]

Wouldn't it just prove how small the community is? I think the only way it would prove anything is if it's something unusual for that area and I'm not getting the sense that it is. He lived only 8 miles away, right? So it makes sense to me that in two small sister towns, they may visit the same locations.

I may revise this once we have more information about where his phone pinged, but for now, I want to post the passage from the PCA that has gotten so much attention. It says:

"On December 23, 2022 pursuant to that search warrant, I received historical records for the 8458 Phone from AT&T from the time the account was opened in June 2022. After consulting with CAST SA, I was able to determine estimated locations for the 8458 Phone from June 2022 to present, the time period authorized by the court. The records for the 8458 Phone show the 8458 Phone utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the area of 1122 King Road on at least twelve occasions prior to November 13, 2022. All of these occasions, except forone, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days."

It doesn't say he was at the house or even on the street. It just says that his phone pinged a tower that "provides coverage to the area of 1122 King Road."

That is incredibly vague and not even approaching a smoking gun, IMO.

Where else does the tower provide coverage besides 1122 King Road? How long was he there? A drive through is different from being stopped somewhere along the road. How many other random cars have this same pattern of 12 pings in that area? So many questions.

JMO.

This actually is important evidence the prosecution can use at trial, it is called CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence.

The majority of the time a defendant is convicted on more than just one piece of evidence, they are convicted on the TOTALITY of the evidence presented.

Sure, a defendant can be convicted on just one piece of DIRECT evidence such as an eye witness who saw the defendant commit the murders, etc...But even in cases such as these there is often circumstantial evidence that goes along with it.

BK was indicted for killing 4 innocent college students who were suppose to be totally safe sleeping in their beds at four o'clock in the morning on 1122 King Road.

BK was living 10 miles away yet in the months leading up to the murders his phone was pinging on at least 12 different occasions on the same cell tower that the victim's used at their home on 1122 King Road. This is circumstantial evidence.

BK's phone pinged eleven times in the late evening and early morning hours as opposed to daytime hours when it would have been easier to spot him, again, this is also circumstantial evidence.

And yes, the defense will say that even though BK's phone pinged on the 1122 King Road cell tower, it still doesn't prove he was actually on King Rd, he could have been in the area doing other things as you say.

But.....the prosecution has this........

A white Hyundai Elantra was seen near the victims' home around the time of the killings. This is the exact type and color of car BK drives.

The car is another piece of circumstantial evidence to add to the cell tower circumstantial evidence to add to the circumstantial evidence of BK messaging a victim multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of wearing medical gloves multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of fitting a witnesses' description of a man in the house that night......

BK washing the car over and over, when it was dark BK put trash in the neighbor's trash bin, BK's crime questions on reddit, BK in college studying a serial killer who also killed 4 people at once, BK's online postings about mental health, possibly his history of negative interactions with women, and so forth......

And what might be considered direct evidence - BK's DNA on a knife sheath left next to a victim.

TOTALITY of evidence.

 

[gliving]

My thought and concern is that BK might use her ties to the parents to his advantage. Would that not open an avenue for BK to complain if he were found guilty? Would he not claim that he had inadequate representation and ask for a mistrial or retrial (or whatever the correct legal terms are)?

IANAL so can't answer your questions.

I think Ms Taylor and her team are doing a good job so far. She hired a state crime scene reconstruction expert, stopped the cleanup at the crime site and the discovery document seemed thorough. She's the chief public defender in Kootenai County. I have confidence in Latah County Court's decision to have her on the case. I thought I read both parties had the option to object?

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger’s parents hire crime scene reconstruction expert

Forensic expert Matthew Noedel and his team were seen inspecting the home where four University of Idaho students were brutally bludgeoned on Nov. 13.

nypost.com

 

[donnanj]

True.

Also, collapsed lungs equals no air. No air equals no scream

Not to mention, collapsed lungs are extrememly painful too. I believe they were all incapacitated before their brain could even register what was happening. JMO

 

[Dr.Watson]

This actually is important evidence the prosecution can use at trial, it is called CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence.

The majority of the time a defendant is convicted on more than just one piece of evidence, they are convicted on the TOTALITY of the evidence presented.

Sure, a defendant can be convicted on just one piece of DIRECT evidence such as an eye witness who saw the defendant commit the murders, etc...But even in cases such as these there is often circumstantial evidence that goes along with it.

BK was indicted for killing 4 innocent college students who were suppose to be totally safe sleeping in their beds at four o'clock in the morning on 1122 King Road.

BK was living 10 miles away yet in the months leading up to the murders his phone was pinging on at least 12 different occasions on the same cell tower that the victim's used at their home on 1122 King Road. This is circumstantial evidence.

BK's phone pinged eleven times in the late evening and early morning hours as opposed to daytime hours when it would have been easier to spot him, again, this is also circumstantial evidence.

And yes, the defense will say that even though BK's phone pinged on the 1122 King Road cell tower, that
doesn't prove he was actually on King Rd, he could have been in the area doing other things as you say.

But.....the prosecution has this........

A white Hyundai Elantra was seen near the victims' home around the time of their killings. This is the exact type and color of car BK drives.

The car is another piece of circumstantial evidence to add to the cell tower circumstances evidence to add to the circumstantial evidence of BK messaging a victim multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of wearing medical gloves multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of fitting a witnesses' description of a man in the house that night......

Washing the car over and over, putting trash in the neighbor's trash bin, BK's crime questions on reddit, BK in college studying a serial killer who also killed 4 people at once, BK's online postings about mental health, possibly his history of negative interactions with women.....

And what might be considered direct evidence - BK's DNA on a knife sheath left next to a victim.

TOTALITY of evidence.

EXACTLY! Well said, and my thoughts too… MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

This actually is important evidence the prosecution can use at trial, it is called CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence.

The majority of the time a defendant is convicted on more than just one piece of evidence, they are convicted on the TOTALITY of the evidence presented.

Sure, a defendant can be convicted on just one piece of DIRECT evidence such as an eye witness who saw the defendant commit the murders, etc...But even in cases such as these there is often circumstantial evidence that goes along with it.

BK was indicted for killing 4 innocent college students who were suppose to be totally safe sleeping in their beds at four o'clock in the morning on 1122 King Road.

BK was living 10 miles away yet in the months leading up to the murders his phone was pinging on at least 12 different occasions on the same cell tower that the victim's used at their home on 1122 King Road. This is circumstantial evidence.

BK's phone pinged eleven times in the late evening and early morning hours as opposed to daytime hours when it would have been easier to spot him, again, this is also circumstantial evidence.

And yes, the defense will say that even though BK's phone pinged on the 1122 King Road cell tower, that
doesn't prove he was actually on King Rd, he could have been in the area doing other things as you say.

But.....the prosecution has this........

A white Hyundai Elantra was seen near the victims' home around the time of their killings. This is the exact type and color of car BK drives.

The car is another piece of circumstantial evidence to add to the cell tower circumstantial evidence to add to the circumstantial evidence of BK messaging a victim multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of wearing medical gloves multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of fitting a witnesses' description of a man in the house that night......

Washing the car over and over, putting trash in the neighbor's trash bin, BK's crime questions on reddit, BK in college studying a serial killer who also killed 4 people at once, BK's online postings about mental health, possibly his history of negative interactions with women.....

And what might be considered direct evidence - BK's DNA on a knife sheath left next to a victim.

TOTALITY of evidence.

Excellent summary!
Adding - BK also changed his license plate just days after the murders.

 

[debbiediablo]

Kohberger attorney represented parent of victim in Moscow homicides before taking his case

“Each lawyer needs to assess the possibility of a conflict with the ethical rule in front of her, and talk with clients,” a veteran legal expert said.

www.aol.com

 

[Cool Cats]

EXACTLY! Well said, and my thoughts too… MOO

Thank you.

Excellent summary!
Adding - BK also changed his license plate just days after the murders.

Thank you.

Yes, the license plate!

 

[John Book]

This actually is important evidence the prosecution can use at trial, it is called CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence.

The majority of the time a defendant is convicted on more than just one piece of evidence, they are convicted on the TOTALITY of the evidence presented.

Sure, a defendant can be convicted on just one piece of DIRECT evidence such as an eye witness who saw the defendant commit the murders, etc...But even in cases such as these there is often circumstantial evidence that goes along with it.

BK was indicted for killing 4 innocent college students who were suppose to be totally safe sleeping in their beds at four o'clock in the morning on 1122 King Road.

BK was living 10 miles away yet in the months leading up to the murders his phone was pinging on at least 12 different occasions on the same cell tower that the victim's used at their home on 1122 King Road. This is circumstantial evidence.

BK's phone pinged eleven times in the late evening and early morning hours as opposed to daytime hours when it would have been easier to spot him, again, this is also circumstantial evidence.

And yes, the defense will say that even though BK's phone pinged on the 1122 King Road cell tower, it still doesn't prove he was actually on King Rd, he could have been in the area doing other things as you say.

But.....the prosecution has this........

A white Hyundai Elantra was seen near the victims' home around the time of their killings. This is the exact type and color of car BK drives.

The car is another piece of circumstantial evidence to add to the cell tower circumstantial evidence to add to the circumstantial evidence of BK messaging a victim multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of wearing medical gloves multiple times, to add to the circumstantial evidence of fitting a witnesses' description of a man in the house that night......

BK washing the car over and over, when it was dark BK put trash in the neighbor's trash bin, BK's crime questions on reddit, BK in college studying a serial killer who also killed 4 people at once, BK's online postings about mental health, possibly his history of negative interactions with women, and so forth......

And what might be considered direct evidence - BK's DNA on a knife sheath left next to a victim.

TOTALITY of evidence.

Nice summary

And that's only the evidence that we're aware of at this point

Like I said on here weeks ago, they're gunna have this evil coward buried under a mountain of evidence when all is said and done.

 

[AlisRedHat]

I meant at the end of his studies in criminology. The Google machine says a Ph.D. in criminology should take 3-4 years. But I can see where you are coming from - he did have a ways to go, but he was closer to the finish line than the beginning if that makes sense.

Coursework is generally 2 years. Writing a dissertation can take much longer for many reasons. Some programs have a time limit to finish and others don’t. Very few students finished in 3-4 years in the program where I worked.