ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

[BeginnerSleuther]

The FBIs Cellular Analysis Survey Team is called CAST. They are the ones that will testify in court as to location of a phone from Cellular and Satellite sources.

Ok, but we haven't really heard anything about that, have we? That's what I'm asking. These threads move fast and I can't keep up. The only thing I know about the cell tower data is the pings mentioned in the PCA. And yes, I'm certain LE has more information than what was in the PCA, but we don't know the details they have so are you speculating re: the FBI knowing exactly where his phone was or was there an article/piece of information I've missed?

Because of your post I looked at the cases
he has testified in.

I looked into the article you attached.

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271694187.html

My opinion only.
He specializes in cases with cell evidence.
In the article he is to have asserted that cell phones cannot be accurately located.

But we all know that Starbucks and Zillow know exactly where your phone is from GPS data if the phone is turned on.

My understanding is that GPS data isn't exact either and it depends on a number of factors. Starbucks may know if you're within a certain range of their store, but won't know exactly where you are. JMO based on what I've read over the years.

 

[Sundog]

Looking at photos / video from initial arrest and extradition hearing, it's easy to see his eyebrows...

Suspect in Idaho Slayings Agrees in Pa Court to Extradition to Face Charges

A criminology graduate student charged in the November slayings of four University of Idaho students agreed Tuesday to be extradited from Pennsylvania, where he was arrested last week, to face charges in Idaho.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

Not directing this post at you, but just jumping off your post due to the subject matter. When BK was first arrested in PA and we all saw the photos of him for the first time, I don't remember anyone here commenting on his eyebrows, although I could have forgotten or missed such a post. There were a lot of posts about his eyes, but none that I recall about his eyebrows.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think it would have been hard to recognized someone you've just seen around if that person was wearing a mask covering half of his face, especially when surprised in the night by a person who doesn't live in your house.

And regarding whetherDM's testimony would be useful for prosecution, the prosecutor don't need to overpromise in this instance. He/she can frame this testimony to established that:
1. a masked stranger was in the house at thee time of the murder;
2. that DM's description of the masked stranger is consistent with BK's appearance. Think about this; if the masked stranger had been 6'5, 300 pounds, that helps the defense. That her eyewitness description matches BK's appearance doesn't prove it was him--but it doesn't need to when taken with other evidence of BK's location, e.g., the car.

I like the way one poster put it:

The eye witness testimony does not EXCLUDE him.

It would exclude him if the witness said she saw a female, or a very short or very tall person, or a very heavy or very large sized person, or a person with thin eyebrows, or a person of a different race, etc....

Circumstantial evidence.

 

[Zella]

Not directing this post at you, but just jumping off your post due to the subject matter. When BK was first arrested in PA and we all saw the photos of him for the first time, I don't remember anyone here commenting on his eyebrows, although I could have forgotten or missed such a post. There were a lot of posts about his eyes, but none that I recall about his eyebrows.

I don't recall people commenting on his eyebrows--it was usually his eyes or his nose--but we also were seeing his entire face in light and not a partially masked face in the dark. MOO I imagine under those conditions, the eyebrows stand out more since it's one of the few things she could likely see about his face.

 

[maconrich]

Not directing this post at you, but just jumping off your post due to the subject matter. When BK was first arrested in PA and we all saw the photos of him for the first time, I don't remember anyone here commenting on his eyebrows, although I could have forgotten or missed such a post. There were a lot of posts about his eyes, but none that I recall about his eyebrows.

I don't remember that either. Seems like eyebrow talk came after the PCA was released (DM's description)

 

[meatandcookies]

And you don't think a conviction will accomplish that?
I respectfully disagree.

A plea bargain would avoid the decades of (mandatory) appeals that attend most capital cases, but it would also be a political liability for the DA, who will have to face the voters eventually:

Prosecuting Attorney

Latah County is located in the northern Idaho panhandle; to the immediate west lies Whitman County, Washington. These counties are referred to as The Palouse, which produces a large share of the wheat, lentils, peas, oats and barley in the United States. The Palouse is home to two major...

latahcountyid.gov

The DA won't want his next opponent to run on the slogan, "I'll be a prosecutor who doesn't coddle killers!"

Were I BK or his attorney, I would not rely on getting a deal AFTER a jury has convicted him of a capital crime. (Of course, at this point we don't know what the eventual charge or penalty will be, nor do we know the eventual verdict.)

That wasn’t my point, and I didn’t judge either way on the effects of a plea bargain. The OP I was responding to was specifically saying the production of a weapon in the course of a plea bargain was unimportant. I disagree with that. ETA: MOO

 

[Boxer]

Ok, but we haven't really heard anything about that, have we? That's what I'm asking. These threads move fast and I can't keep up. The only thing I know about the cell tower data is the pings mentioned in the PCA. And yes, I'm certain LE has more information than what was in the PCA, but we don't know the details they have so are you speculating re: the FBI knowing exactly where his phone was or was there an article/piece of information I've missed?



My understanding is that GPS data isn't exact either and it depends on a number of factors. Starbucks may know if you're within a certain range of their store, but won't know exactly where you are. JMO based on what I've read over the years.

The PCA is the minimum for arrest.
An expert who testifies on cell location data in criminal cases is being quoted in MSM as saying cell phones cannot be accurately located.

MOO This is not about what is or isn’t mentioned in the PCA, such as more data from BK’s phone being analyzed,

MOO it’s about the opinion of an expert who can and likely will testify in court in this case getting misinformation out there in MSM.
******

GPS: The Global Positioning System › performance

GPS-enabled smartphones are typically accurate to within a 4.9 m (16 ft.) radius under open sky (view source at ION.org). However, their accuracy worsens near buildings, bridges, and trees.
Mar 3, 2022

 

[Sundog]

In December, authorities arrested Bryan Kohberger and charged him with four counts of murder. But Kohberger didn't attend the University of Idaho; he was a graduate student at Washington State University, approximately eight miles away across the state line.

But three different students tell PEOPLE that they believe they saw Kohberger at the Student Union building on the Idaho campus in the weeks before the murders — and that they later recognized him after he was arrested for the murders.

"He was the type to stare," she continues. "He wouldn't look away if you caught him staring. Like he wanted you to notice that he was looking at you. He didn't smile, didn't nod, didn't say anything. Just stared."

[…]
Another student tells PEOPLE that she saw Kohberger frequently enough around campus that she assumed he was a student at the University of Idaho.

"It's not a huge school; it's like a small town," she says. "So you start seeing the same faces again and again. They become familiar, like you know that you've seen them in class or around campus. I definitely saw him more than once. He was just really quiet and really intense, staring. He made me uncomfortable."

Bryan Kohberger Visited Idaho Student Union Before Murders — and Was 'the Type to Stare': Witnesses

Students say that Bryan Kohberger, who attended another university as a grad student, was occasionally seen on campus during the fall 2022 semester

people.com

I can understand the parents' concerns, but it would not be unusual at all for a doctoral student at a WSU to be on the campus at University of Idaho. BK could have been using the library at UI and took his lunch breaks in the Student Union. There is a lot of this kind of back and forth between universities that are in that close proximity, so this was not unusual at all. There would likely be open lectures by faculty from each university and also visiting lecturers/guests, and events open to everyone. So not unusual at all, and not necessarily indicative of anything untoward.

 

[Sundog]

I’m really skeptical to believe People magazine after their article about him eating at Mad Greek was later refuted. I feel like they’re reaching here. Did he eat at the UofI campus? Maybe? I guess cell phone records could verify this. But this doesn’t seem like great journalism to me MOO

Even if BK did eat at the UI student union, that would not be unusual. The two universities were in close proximity, and one would expect a lot of back and forth related to library, places to study, bookstores, student union and other places to buy food, Starbucks if they have one, etc.

 

[Boxer]

Even if BK did eat at the UI student union, that would not be unusual. The two universities were in close proximity, and one would expect a lot of back and forth related to library, places to study, bookstores, student union and other places to buy food, Starbucks if they have one, etc.

MOO I would say it would be unusual to do without friend/s, or if the UI served vegan food that might be a reason.

 

[ktm44]

I've thought a lot about the "frozen shock phase" and I've also wondered if her eyes saw a knife but her psyche was/is protecting her by not allowing her to remember seeing it, hence she froze and does not recall anything but his general description. MOO all spec.

That wording has always intrigued me but I have a feeling that she has given LE more than a description of eyebrows.

 

[Sundog]

MOO I would say it would be unusual to do without friend/s, or if the UI served vegan food that might be a reason.

If a grad or doctoral student at WSU was using the library at U of I or doing some research in the library there, then a coffee break or lunch or just some water and stretching your legs would be likely, especially alone, as grad students/doctoral students don't usually study with anyone else. I have done this myself many times while a doctoral student. There was a library setting that I really liked and I would use that campus' resources. One reason I liked it was because it was right next to a small food court where I could fill up with coffee when I took a break from reading. All around me were undergraduate students, but I never felt out of place.

 

[acutename]

I can understand the parents' concerns, but it would not be unusual at all for a doctoral student at a WSU to be on the campus at University of Idaho. BK could have been using the library at UI and took his lunch breaks in the Student Union. There is a lot of this kind of back and forth between universities that are in that close proximity, so this was not unusual at all. There would likely be open lectures by faculty from each university and also visiting lecturers/guests, and events open to everyone. So not unusual at all, and not necessarily indicative of anything untoward.

I kind of agree with his- my undergrad was at a Uni with 4 separate campuses- there were busses between them and some were more suburban than others but people moved around and you could actually use your meal card in any of the dining halls. somtimes people even lived on another campus because of crowding or convenience. My grad school was near a larger city with multiple schools and people would take transit to the city for any number of reasons. I might even say that having spent his prior school years having Zoom classes, BK might have been curious about all facets of campus life... but I personally think that the DNA, the car videos and other evidence is damning.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The PCA is the minimum for arrest.
An expert who testifies on cell location data in criminal cases is being quoted in MSM as saying cell phones cannot be accurately located.

MOO This is not about what is or isn’t mentioned in the PCA, such as more data from BK’s phone being analyzed,

MOO it’s about the opinion of an expert who can and likely will testify in court in this case getting misinformation out there in MSM.
******

GPS: The Global Positioning System › performance

GPS-enabled smartphones are typically accurate to within a 4.9 m (16 ft.) radius under open sky (view source at ION.org). However, their accuracy worsens near buildings, bridges, and trees.
Mar 3, 2022

I understand that the PCA is just the minimum. I've been saying this a lot lately because I feel like I'm not communicating my point well. But for clarification, I totally, 100% get that LE has more information than what's in the PCA. HOWEVER, since we have no idea what that information is, I choose to go only by the PCA until more facts are released. That's why I asked what you were basing your post on? It is possible I missed more information being released as these threads go fast and I don't always read every page (or even every 10 pages).

Re: what was BBM, I don't think it's right to say a literal expert with a 9-page CV of his expertise is spreading misinformation. A colleague of mine had one of those signs in her office that read "don't confuse your Google search with my medical degree." I feel like this is along those same lines. MOO. Anyway, if he is wrong and spreading misinformation, I suspect on cross-examination, they'll demonstrate that to the jury. But my own feeling is, experts who spread misinformation don't typically get called to be an "expert witness" like this guy does.

Again, all MOO.

 

[ktm44]

MOO I would say it would be unusual to do without friend/s, or if the UI served vegan food that might be a reason.

Most places serve a garden salad.

 

[gliving]

Ben Levitan is a professional defense expert witness. The product he sells is confusion.


The FBI uses CAST to determine location from cell towers and it is a straightforward process.

CAST
Data from One Tower pinging can determine distance from tower in a 30 degree arc.

So taking that arc data from two towers the phone is located where the two arcs cross.


Satellite
Then there is satellite tracking which is separate and extremely accurate.

CAST is mentioned in the PCA. They are on it for sure.

"These records also included historical cell site location information (CSLI) for the 8458 Phone. After receiving this information, I consulted with an FBI Special Agent (SA) that is certified as a member of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST). Members of CAST are certified with the FBI to provide expert testimony in the field of historical CSLI and are required to pass extensive training that includes both written and practical examinations prior to be certified with CAST as well as the completion of yearly certification requirements. Additionally, the FBI CAST SA that I consulted with has over fifteen years of federal law enforcement experience, which includes six years with the FBI. From information provided by CAST, I was able to determine estimated locations for the 8458 Phone from November 12, 2022 to November 13,2022,t he lime period authorized by the court."

(page 13) Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN

 

[Boxer]

If a grad or doctoral student at WSU was using the library at U of I or doing some research in the library there, then a coffee break or lunch or just some water and stretching your legs would be likely, especially alone, as grad students/doctoral students don't usually study with anyone else. I have done this myself many times while a doctoral student. There was a library setting that I really liked and I would use that campus' resources. One reason I liked it was because it was right next to a small food court where I could fill up with coffee when I took a break from reading. All around me were undergraduate students, but I never felt out of place.

True. BK was possibly doing that.

 

[RonSwanson33]

Ok, but we haven't really heard anything about that, have we? That's what I'm asking. These threads move fast and I can't keep up. The only thing I know about the cell tower data is the pings mentioned in the PCA. And yes, I'm certain LE has more information than what was in the PCA, but we don't know the details they have so are you speculating re: the FBI knowing exactly where his phone was or was there an article/piece of information I've missed?



My understanding is that GPS data isn't exact either and it depends on a number of factors. Starbucks may know if you're within a certain range of their store, but won't know exactly where you are. JMO based on what I've read over the years.

WE don't know much, but we can deduce that's what LE has in the 3000 pages of discovery we haven't seen. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

If a grad or doctoral student at WSU was using the library at U of I or doing some research in the library there, then a coffee break or lunch or just some water and stretching your legs would be likely, especially alone, as grad students/doctoral students don't usually study with anyone else. I have done this myself many times while a doctoral student. There was a library setting that I really liked and I would use that campus' resources. One reason I liked it was because it was right next to a small food court where I could fill up with coffee when I took a break from reading. All around me were undergraduate students, but I never felt out of place.

Even if BK did eat at the UI student union, that would not be unusual. The two universities were in close proximity, and one would expect a lot of back and forth related to library, places to study, bookstores, student union and other places to buy food, Starbucks if they have one, etc.

It sounds interesting to find out more about it.

I never heard that these 2 Universities were in close proximity and that it was common for students to go back and forth. I never heard of students driving that far to use a different University's facilities when they have the exact same facilities at their own University and can just go online for information instead of driving out of town to another University's library. When my friends and I didn't want to eat in our college cafeteria we went to restaurants or got take out or cooked food in the dorm kitchen.

I get your point but would like to know if this is a common thing. If not common at all, then why was BK hanging around? If common, then it makes more sense for him to be there.

 

[Zella]

I never heard of students driving that far to use a different University's facilities when they have the exact same facilities at their own University and can just go online for information instead of driving out of town to another University's library.

I used other university's libraries when I was in college and grad school. Not every library system has access to the same databases. For a seminar paper I had to do for my undergraduate history degree, I spent all day at another college's library using their databases that were unavailable to me at my college and were not accessible without a library.

I actually still use a friend's library card for another state to access databases the library I work for doesn't have subscriptions for and have emailed friends still in academia for them to take pity on me and download an article for me. I also still maintain alumni status at a university I graduated from for the sole reason that their library system has access to stuff my public library doesn't.

Research material isn't necessarily easily googled, so it's really not accurate to say it's all just online and could be accessed from anywhere. MOO

I suspect if BK was prowling around the Idaho campus, he had ill intent. But I wouldn't rule out that he had a legitimate purpose in being there, particularly the library.