ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 70

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Your welcome.

This whole thing is ridiculous. They should move the trial to a larger city that can handle it and that can access a normal attorney for him.

This Moscow DA won't even make up their minds about pursuing the DP. If they don't pursue it then they won't need AT as an attorney.
The lead trial attorneys who are Capital Defenders are spread across the state. While there is really only one in that part of the panhandle. Even the Boise metropolitan area doesn't lead to a bunch of options, according to the list.

It's going to be tough to keep in close to Moscow for the witnesses and get him many other options.

 
Is it possible that the road trip BK took with his father was planned so BK could dispose of the knife and/or clothes somewhere along the route?
I suspect that's what he was ditching on that long drive back home after the murder. I am not sure he would have chanced disposing of something like that on a road trip with his dad.

I do think it's entirely possible he was contriving a way to not return home with the Elantra, though. MOO
 
I'm still trying to make sense of the time frame. The affidavit states that: Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximalely 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and tuming around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road. Suspect Vehicle I is next seen departing the area of the King Road Residence at approximately 4:20 a.m. at a high rate of speed. According to this the vehicle entered the area at 4.04. It hasn't even parked yet. So by the time he does all this turning around, he at best enters house at 4:07. Vehicle is seen leaving at 4:20. So the murders would have had to of taken place in between 4:07 and 4:19. Twelve minutes! That's a lot to happen in 12 minutes.

This is speculation on my part. Affidavit says suspect vehicle makes first appearance in area at 3:28. What if BK was not the one driving that car? He was instead a passenger. Driver lets him out near residence around 3:28. There are many scenarios as to why BK would be let off there. Most obvious one is to commit murder, but there are other scenarios that are possible. For the timeline to be expanded it's possible BK could have already slipped in the back door and was already up stairs at the time the Door dash arrived. So it's possible MM and KG were already deceased before the Door dash arrived? He then goes downstairs and has approximately 12 minutes to kill XK and EC. IMO EC had to have been passed out from a night of partying for him not to have been able to fend off BK. EC was a big athletic kid. I just can't see BK overtaking him in an alert fight. In this scenario the vehicle continuing to drive by could be the driver waiting for BK to exit the house. An accomplice? Maybe.... Or the driver maybe did not know of BK's plans. Thought he was being left off for another reason. Again this is just my thoughts.
 
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I'm familiar with how WS works. I was asking a legitimate question. Was this confirmed? People Mag gets things wrong.


Not been officially confirmed to the public because the investigator did not give his name and the police department did not make a public statement and there are no documents with this information available to the public.

All the public knows is that an investigator familiar with the Case gave People Magazine several inside details that only an investigator would know. Also, People Magazine states that they did their own review of BK's Instagram account before his account was removed.

Details include:

1.) BK followed all 3 female victims but there was no interaction between them.
2.) The messages were sent in late October 2022, only 2 weeks before the murders.
3.) BK singled out one victim to message.
4.) The victim did not respond to BK's messages.
5.) When the victim did not respond, BK sent the victim multiple messages and was persistent.
6.) BK sent greetings such as 'Hey, how are you?'

 
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I consider DM's description of the unknown person important. Not because it describes BK in detail but, importantly that it does not exclude him. MOO
Excellent point. I don't think it is so much as the bushy eyebrows, but he has distinct lower level, hooded eyebrows that are distinct. (Not sure what to call the facial feature of distinct lower eyebrows)
 
I'm still trying to make sense of the time frame. The affidavit states that: Suspect Vehicle 1 can be seen entering the area a fourth time a approximalely 4:04 a.m. It can be seen driving eastbound on King Road, stopping and tuming around in front of 500 Queen Road #52 and then driving back westbound on King Road. When Suspect Vehicle I is in front of the King Road Residence, it appeared to unsuccessfully attempt to park or tum around in the road. The vehicle then continued to the intersection of Queen Road and King Road where it can be seen completing a three-point tum and then driving eastbound again down Queen Road. Suspect Vehicle I is next seen departing the area oftle King Road Residence at approximately 4:20 a.m. at a high rate of speed.
According to this the vehicle entered the area at 4.04. It hasn't even parked yet. So by the time he does all this turning around, he at best enters house at 4:07. Vehicle is seen leaving at 4:20. So the murders would have had to of taken place in between 4:07 and 4:19. Twelve minutes! That's a lot to happen in 12 minutes. This is speculation on my part. Affidavit says suspect vehicle makes first appearance in area at 3:28. What if BK was not the one driving that car? He was instead a passenger. Driver lets him out near residence around 3:28. There are many scenarios as to why BK would be let off there. Most obvious one is to commit murder, but there are other scenarios that are possible. For the timeline to be expanded it's possible BK could have already slipped in the back door and was already up stairs at the time the Door dash arrived. So it's possible MM and KG were already deceased before the Door dash arrived? He then goes downstairs and has approximately 12 minutes to kill XK and EC. IMO EC had to have been passed out from a night of partying for him not to have been able to fend off BK. EC was a big athletic kid. I just can't see BK overtaking him in an alert fight. In this scenario the vehicle continuing to drive by could be the driver waiting for BK to exit the house. An accomplice? Maybe.... Or the driver maybe did not know of BK's plans. Thought he was being left off for another reason. Again this is just my thoughts.
LE believes the killings were possible in the timeframe they have given in the PCA, or they wouldn't have charged him and arrested him based on that.

There are still no other suspects or persons of interest or accomplices identified by LE in the 10 weeks or so since the murders, and I don't think they would have skipped over the possibility when asking for the public to keep submitting tips after BK's arrest if they thought there was someone else involved or assisting/driving.

Besides, BK's phone pinged in their neighborhood many times before the murders and the morning after, and presumably no one else's did, so it seems unlikely, IMO, that "someone else" was in on it.

MOO
 
Not been officially confirmed to the public because the investigator did not give his name and the police department did not make a public statement and there are no documents with this information available to the public.

All the public knows is that an investigator familiar with the Case gave People Magazine several inside details that only an investigator would know. Also, People Magazine states that they did their own review of BK's Instagram account before his account was removed.

Details include:

1.) BK followed all 3 female victims but there was no interaction between them.
2.) The messages were sent in late October 2022, only 2 weeks before the murders.
3.) BK singled out one victim to message.
4.) The victim did not respond to BK's messages.
5.) When the victim did not respond, BK sent the victim multiple messages and was persistent.
6.) BK sent greetings such as 'Hey, how are you?'


I just find it suspect that an investigator broke the gag order to anonymously share this information. Of all the info in this case, I just find this to be a very strange thing to take the risk to share. MOO. I'm not really impressed with People's review either. Again, MOO. I do consider it "reported info" but not yet a fact, IMO.
 
I just find it suspect that an investigator broke the gag order to anonymously share this information. Of all the info in this case, I just find this to be a very strange thing to take the risk to share. MOO. I'm not really impressed with People's review either. Again, MOO. I do consider it "reported info" but not yet a fact, IMO.
I think the gag order was expanded right after this "broke". IF it was a PI, he/she didn't violate the gag order. JMO
 
I agree that a distinguishing physical marker like a mole, scar or tatoo would be an important detail, but the height of 5 ft 10 in is just above the average male height in the U.S. of 5 ft 9 in. Also bushy eyebrows strikes me as very general and even subjective. I don't think we can call DM an eyewitness to anything other than a person dressed in black, we don't even know, really, if she could say it was a male or a female. As far as we know from the PCA, at least.
Yes, throughout the threads some have speculated that the prosecution would not call DM (based on what is in the PCA) because defense would then cross examine to discredit the basic physical description. For e.g. the defense might discredit via not enough light, witness just awoke, witness not in position to ID more than a moving figure in black etc. So the rationale is, it is better to not have her on the stand at all, cos cross examiniation. Granted, we don't know if there is more identifying detail in any detailed witness statement provided to LE but I tend to think no, because this would have been in the PCA. MOO
 
I just find it suspect that an investigator broke the gag order to anonymously share this information. Of all the info in this case, I just find this to be a very strange thing to take the risk to share. MOO. I'm not really impressed with People's review either. Again, MOO. I do consider it "reported info" but not yet a fact, IMO.
It makes me mad that someone might risk the case this way. You think it's hard not talking to the press in the US? Try being in the UK or Australia. Our laws are very different. To ensure fair trial, a lot of the time, you hear very little until things are actually in court. If this source actually exists, why would they risk a quadruple murderer going free? It baffles me.
 
BBMFF

I really don't think BK put Kaylee on the bed because that would have been staged. My 2 reasons...

1) it wasn't mentioned in the affidavit that anything looked staged, and

2) the affidavit specifically states "two females IN the single bed". It doesn't say she was "on" the bed. And most people sleep "in" bed during the winter (likely year-round unless no AC and it's super hot), not "on" the bed.
View attachment 399058

That leads me to believe they were sleeping in bed together.

As for sounds like Kaylee was playing with the dog... IMO I feel like the dog heard something and sensed something was not right (like animals can do). I think Murphy was likely running or jumping around wanting to get out of the room. Something set the dog off (his owner being killed or about to be killed). All MOO

BBM: Yea, I've always thought that the 'KG playing with dog like sounds' as heard by D.M coming from one of the upstairs rooms (PCA, p4) could have either been the dog moving around solo (in KG's room) in agitation, or related to the killer's actions in Maddie's room. Speculated from the PCA and MOO
 
Yes, throughout the threads some have speculated that the prosecution would not call DM (based on what is in the PCA) because defense would then cross examine to discredit the basic physical description. For e.g. the defense might discredit via not enough light, witness just awoke, witness not in position to ID more than a moving figure in black etc. So the rationale is, it is better to not have her on the stand at all, cos cross examiniation. Granted, we don't know if there is more identifying detail in any detailed witness statement provided to LE but I tend to think no, because this would have been in the PCA. MOO
she could be asked point blank if the person she saw was BK and if she says "yes" and "yes he is in the court room here today; the defendant" that would be damning IMO.
 
Yes, throughout the threads some have speculated that the prosecution would not call DM (based on what is in the PCA) because defense would then cross examine to discredit the basic physical description. For e.g. the defense might discredit via not enough light, witness just awoke, witness not in position to ID more than a moving figure in black etc. So the rationale is, it is better to not have her on the stand at all, cos cross examiniation. Granted, we don't know if there is more identifying detail in any detailed witness statement provided to LE but I tend to think no, because this would have been in the PCA. MOO
At the end of the day, if she's called as a witness, yes, the defense will go after her hard concerning her credibility, but a lot of the information she's providing is corroborated by other sources. I think that gives her more influence as a witness than if she was the only source of the information.

Her testimony of when she woke up, what she heard, and when she saw someone in the house matches up with video surveillance of BK arriving and leaving, the account of the Door Dash driver, victim phone data, and estimated times of death. There's likely more LE has extrapolated about the sequence of events of the murders that meshes even more with what she heard.

Her description of the person she saw in the house, for all the hand-wringing that is being done over it, is essentially accurate. She described a man on the taller side of average with distinctive eyebrows and a build that was not bulky nor skinny nor average but athletic. That's not an exclusive description to BK, but it still matches him and other evidence indicates he was there that night, from video footage of his car to his own cell phone. I'd even go so far to say that people who have better conditions for being a witness (more lighting, a longer look at an assailant) often aren't able to provide that accurate or specific of information to describe someone. It's honestly one of the better descriptions of a suspect I've seen from a witness, especially one who's not a professional who's trained in noticing those things.

On her own as a witness, she's not a slam dunk, and her performance on the witness stand will be critical to how the jury responds to her. But in combination with the other evidence, I suspect she will be quite persuasive, even with the defense attorneys trying their best to discredit her. MOO
 
I agree that a distinguishing physical marker like a mole, scar or tatoo would be an important detail, but the height of 5 ft 10 in is just above the average male height in the U.S. of 5 ft 9 in. Also bushy eyebrows strikes me as very general and even subjective. I don't think we can call DM an eyewitness to anything other than a person dressed in black, we don't even know, really, if she could say it was a male or a female. As far as we know from the PCA, at least.
DM is a victim, and what she told LE is not in question, and LE agreed her description matched BK.

LE had 6 weeks or so to delve into what DM, as the only eyewitness to an unknown person being in their home at the time of the murders, said she saw, and included what relevant details she gave them in the PCA (between the day of the murders (11-13-2022) and when LE wrote the PCA (presumably in late December prior to submitting it on 12-30-2022). MOO!

BBM from the PCA:

"D.M. said she opened her door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. D.M. described the figure as 5' I0" or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene."

LE also interpreted BK's appearance as "fitting" DM's description of the person she saw, per the PCA:

"Officer Whitman also ran the car and it retumed to Kohberger with a Washington tag. I reviewed Kohberg's WA state driver license information and photograph. This license indicates that Kohberger is a white male with a height of 6' and weighs 185 pounds. Additionally, the photograph of Kohberger shows that he has bushy eyebrows. Kohberger's physical description is consistent with the description of the male D.M. saw inside the King Road Residence on November 13th."

Read Bryan Kohberger affidavit: Details on police evidence in Idaho murders
 
she could be asked point blank if the person she saw was BK and if she says "yes" and "yes he is in the court room here today; the defendant" that would be damning IMO.

It’d have the opposite effect on me. I’d think she was a liar. (Based on what’s in the PCA.)

However, I’d respect someone who just said what she saw, height, build, eyebrows, and didn’t try to invent an identification.

MOO
 
LE believes the killings were possible in the timeframe they have given in the PCA, or they wouldn't have charged him and arrested him based on that.

There are still no other suspects or persons of interest or accomplices identified by LE in the 10 weeks or so since the murders, and I don't think they would have skipped over the possibility when asking for the public to keep submitting tips after BK's arrest if they thought there was someone else involved or assisting/driving.

Besides, BK's phone pinged in their neighborhood many times before the murders and the morning after, and presumably no one else's did, so it seems unlikely, IMO, that "someone else" was in on it.

MOO
Do I think their timeline is possible? Yes it's possible. Hard to fathom but possible. It's also very possible since the arrest they have more evidence. Maybe the driver is no longer alive? Just speculative sleuthing on my part. Obviously, it's probably just BK... Time will tell.
 
I think the gag order was expanded right after this "broke". IF it was a PI, he/she didn't violate the gag order. JMO

My timeline may be off then. I thought the gag order was expanded after People did the story on Mad Greek? But I've lost track now.
 
It makes me mad that someone might risk the case this way. You think it's hard not talking to the press in the US? Try being in the UK or Australia. Our laws are very different. To ensure fair trial, a lot of the time, you hear very little until things are actually in court. If this source actually exists, why would they risk a quadruple murderer going free? It baffles me.

Right, especially over something like this that many on social media even speculated about. JMO.
 
she could be asked point blank if the person she saw was BK and if she says "yes" and "yes he is in the court room here today; the defendant" that would be damning IMO.

Not really, IMO. It was dark and he wore a mask. She really can't definitively ID him. I don't think this is like one of those cases where a victim can definitively ID the perp. Plus, would bet the defense attorney would make sure that BK thinned out those brows before such a scenario. MOO.
 
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