ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 42

[AngTxGal]

Having had a chance to look at the actual survey, I can kind of see how it could have been mistakenly determined to be exempt (no greater than minimal risk). It would have still been an incorrect determination based on the fact that the researchers were not collecting directly identifiable information and would not have had an honest risk/benefit analysis considered. The description of their crimes could potentially identify participants and would raise the risk level of the research to greater than minimal/full committee review and may even require a prisoner representative to be present.

One other thing that stuck out is although he says the data will be confidential, that really doesn’t mean much. He doesn’t say it’s anonymous or that data will be collected/stored without identifiers. If he’s emailing the survey from REDCap, I believe the researcher has to manually set the the survey not to collect or tie responses to email addresses.

I also noticed he doesn’t say in the beginning of the survey that the study has been reviewed by the IRB, only in the advertisements. That made me go look up DeSales IRB forms. Non-exempt studies require specific elements of consent, whereas exempt studies can use an information sheet that does not include all of those elements. DeSale only has a full consent template on their website, so I assume that they do not utilize information sheets that are not based on the consent template language, which his introductory text does not match. No risks or benefits mentioned, no way to contact the IRB… those are significant omissions.

Based on all of that, I’m going to bet that this wasn’t an IRB-approved study. If they approved this, they dropped the ball big time.

Getting IRB approval is a rigorous process
It is a red flag to have a survey appear in public to be completed by people online with the appearance of being approved by a research committee- and not have been.
If he has the school’s name, his own name, and also contacts from the school- that looks like fraud by someone not playing with a full deck
How did someone earn an MS without knowing basic research methods?
This sounds like an unapproved class project, not any type of approved research

JMO

 

[knuterocknes]

Having had a chance to look at the actual survey, I can kind of see how it could have been mistakenly determined to be exempt (no greater than minimal risk). It would have still been an incorrect determination based on the fact that the researchers were not collecting directly identifiable information and would not have had an honest risk/benefit analysis considered. The description of their crimes could potentially identify participants and would raise the risk level of the research to greater than minimal/full committee review and may even require a prisoner representative to be present.

One other thing that stuck out is although he says the data will be confidential, that really doesn’t mean much. He doesn’t say it’s anonymous or that data will be collected/stored without identifiers. If he’s emailing the survey from REDCap, I believe the researcher has to manually set the the survey not to collect or tie responses to email addresses.

I also noticed he doesn’t say in the beginning of the survey that the study has been reviewed by the IRB, only in the advertisements. That made me go look up DeSales IRB forms. Non-exempt studies require specific elements of consent, whereas exempt studies can use an information sheet that does not include all of those elements. DeSale only has a full consent template on their website, so I assume that they do not utilize information sheets that are not based on the consent template language, which his introductory text does not match. No risks or benefits mentioned, no way to contact the IRB… those are significant omissions.

Based on all of that, I’m going to bet that this wasn’t an IRB-approved study. If they approved this, they dropped the ball big time.

This is a bit of a silly question, but what software did he use to conduct the survey? At my college, we use a few types of sites for surveys and they are not always confidential.

 

[Seattle1]

Help me out sleuthers…. that video that captured the girls walking down the street having the “what did you tell him / I told him everything” conversation. Did they use the name Chris? The internet is moving as fast as these WS threads, and I‘ve been (unsuccessfully) digging for it all night, wondering if Bryan Christopher Kohberger may have gone by Chris.

I recall this was a reference to Adam -- identified by SG (Kaylee's dad) as the bartender.

 

[citizen_sleuth]

From the NYT article linked above:


This sounds like the murders were something he had been planning for a while, JMO. There was a sort of urge or compulsion building up in him that he had to carry out. This sounds like a few other killers, like BTK or Ted Bundy.

He was also willing to talk more to people because he wanted to know what they were thinking, whether they might suspect he was the killer.

I remember when we were all talking about how UofI allowing students to take classes virtually could let the killer slip away undetected. Turns out the killer actually had no problem going back to attending classes.

 

[Copper107]

IMO I don’t think he’s connected to them at all and if so very briefly. With BK’s extensive criminal educational background and probable sociopathic tendencies, he found what he considered the perfect victims. A party house with many inhabitants and visitors. Weekends were about intoxication, people coming and going…unlocked doors. With that criminal education I’d think he’d be aware of the numerous fingerprints and the great deal of DNA from many people already in that house. Again IMO

Pullman is only a 10-minute drive from the victim's residence.

 

[txsleuth70]

Hmm, the video that was released seem to show the girls in line outside at was seemed was a food truck or something. With BK having "OCD eating" issues, it makes me wonder if there wasn't some sort of disagreement with him between one or two of the roomies over ordering food, or picking up or delivering food! He could have followed them after & killed them. Or maybe he was delivering food and there was an issue and he snapped. It's going to be interesting for sure! Tragic.

 

[cottonweaver]

From the NYT article linked above:


This sounds like the murders were something he had been planning for a while, JMO. There was a sort of urge or compulsion building up in him that he had to carry out. This sounds like a few other killers, like BTK or Ted Bundy.

He was also willing to talk more to people because he wanted to know what they were thinking, whether they might suspect he was the killer.

is the Norton quote relating to his time at the DeSales University ( I couldn't open the link)

 

[Luna20]

From the NYT article linked above:


This sounds like the murders were something he had been planning for a while, JMO. There was a sort of urge or compulsion building up in him that he had to carry out. This sounds like a few other killers, like BTK or Ted Bundy.

He was also willing to talk more to people because he wanted to know what they were thinking, whether they might suspect he was the killer.

Agree, it definitely took planning. I am curious if he was ignored or dismissed by one of the girls so he wanted to retaliate.

 

[Miriel Pastor of Vows]

This is a bit of a silly question, but what software did he use to conduct the survey? At my college, we use a few types of sites for surveys and they are not always confidential.

The version I saw was using Qualtrics.

In general the anonymity of a research study can be achieved on institutional research protocols and data security behaviors by those with access.

The software itself is generally considered to be a standard in the field used by even top research institutions. But data behaviors are more important than any one tech tool.

 

[knuterocknes]

is the Norton quote relating to his time at the DeSales University ( I couldn't open the link)

If I'm reading this correctly, it was when he was at WSU. As it goes on to say BK attended class even after the murders and appeared more "animated."

 

[Vegasgrl]

He worked as a part time school safety officer for a bit. Wonder if he was fingerprinted for the job?

I think it was likely a DNA match. But it's also possible that LE wasn't able to rule out figure prints found in the victim's home. Maybe from another time he was in the home prior to the murders. Could be both. He was certainly fingerprinted in PA when he worked in a school, as security for children.

 

[feralwriter]

About his "study" - usually Masters & Doctoral candidates first need to attend at least one training to learn protocols around the ethics of working with "human subjects."

It seems to me a social media study anyone could make up answers to is worthless as scholarly research. Were he genuinely interested in conducting a rigorous project, he'd take the time to gain access to actual prisoners, who generally welcome a change in routine that has them as the focus. He could still guarantee anonymity that way, whether interviewing by mail or in-person. And his questions are so banal & general, they read to me like a junior high school student wrote them. Does make me wonder if he located an accomplice via this.

That said, what stands out most to me is NewNationNow's fabulous as always Brian Entin's commentary he had quiet stare upon arrest. I'm sorry, but if LE broke into my house at 3am, put me in handcuffs for a quadruple homicide I had zilch to do with the very last adjective used about me at that point would be "quiet." I would raise such hell it would make a record of some kind.

 

[lucidium]

The thread is moving fast so someone may have mentioned it already, but does anyone else feel like this isn't his first murder? I just find it strange that someone would murder 4 people on their first attempt, it just seems like too many variables - the more people, the more room for error I'd imagine. I wonder if he killed before, got away with it, and felt emboldened ? MOO

I agree it would be bold for a first offense, however, I don't think that tells us anything helpful. This appears to be a crime where the murderer did not intimately know the victims*. That makes it an atypical crime, where circumstances rarely turn out to be what we expect.

Our intuition says it is extremely difficult to enter a stranger's house in the dark of night and methodically kill 4 people without alerting others. I think our intuitions are frequently incorrect for these types of crimes.

* Unconfirmed

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I think it was likely a DNA match. But it's also possible that LE wasn't able to rule out figure prints found in the victim's home. Maybe from another time he was in the home prior to the murders. Could be both. He was certainly fingerprinted in PA when he worked in a school, as security for children.

And if he was not in the victim’s circle of friends, his fingerprints, dna, should not be present anywhere in the home, if there, he’s got a lot explaining to do. JMO.

 

[S. Gammon]

From the NYT article linked above:


This sounds like the murders were something he had been planning for a while, JMO. There was a sort of urge or compulsion building up in him that he had to carry out. This sounds like a few other killers, like BTK or Ted Bundy.

He was also willing to talk more to people because he wanted to know what they were thinking, whether they might suspect he was the killer.

I agree with you. I have to wonder if he hasn't had criminal tendencies for a very long time. Perhaps majoring in criminal justice was a way to squash those tendencies, or perhaps he wanted to learn more about criminal behavior.

 

[lucidium]

Please help me understand how LE knew his DNA was at the crime scene? Did they confiscate his trash? Did LE have it from a prior crime? An ancestry/23 me site?

That is known only to LE at this time. Anything else is just speculation.

 

[Charlot123]

Or maybe he was just on a lot of Adderall and lied to people about his diet to cover that up.

What could have started as Adderall for the treatment of an overweight, bullied schoolkid, might well have turned into self-medication with something cheaper. However, that you mentioned stimulants is highly intuitive, as stimulants make OCD worse. JMO.

 

[seemstome]

From the NYT article linked above:


This sounds like the murders were something he had been planning for a while, JMO. There was a sort of urge or compulsion building up in him that he had to carry out. This sounds like a few other killers, like BTK or Ted Bundy.

He was also willing to talk more to people because he wanted to know what they were thinking, whether they might suspect he was the killer.

Hmmm after reading this, I think he felt some sense of accomplishment and libidinal release and all of that made him FEEL more real, more visible, more important, more normal. Brought him to life as he brought others to death. Made him HAVE feelings at all, thus able to be open and to try and connect with those around him.
Imo he banished his sick thoughts with his sick actions, and thus was freed from them, at least temporarily, so to speak.

 

[AngTxGal]

IMO I don’t think he’s connected to them at all and if so very briefly. With BK’s extensive criminal educational background and probable sociopathic tendencies, he found what he considered the perfect victims. A party house with many inhabitants and visitors. Weekends were about intoxication, people coming and going…unlocked doors. With that criminal education I’d think he’d be aware of the numerous fingerprints and the great deal of DNA from many people already in that house. Again IMO

It seems likely he followed them online, then ate where they worked, went to the bar where they liked to go, watched them on the feed from the grub truck where they liked to eat late



JMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Pretty sure if his DNA was collected at the site it was unknown at the time. Only when they got a match did they know who he or his family was.

Any military service?