ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 46

[Seattle1]

What did the defense do?

On Thursday, the Moscow Police Chief told reporters that a
'biohazard remediation,' clean-up consisting of the removal, cleaning, disinfection of bodily fluids and other infectious materials (after a death, accident or communicable disease outbreak), by Trauma Scene Bio Services, would be at the crime scene on Friday but after the press conference where BK's arrest announced, he told the same reporters the court stopped the clean up as scheduled.

Moscow murders: Police begin cleaning biohazards from King Street home

Moscow Police said Thursday they will begin remediation of the home to clean up biohazards or harmful substances.

www.ktvb.com

 

[esayer]

.

Gedmatch
Geni - works with FTDNA, but you can transfer DNA to FTDNA and pay $39 to unlock autosomal matches. Geni is the free part of FTDNA. I find it more convenient than Gedmatch, tbh.

My Heritage is its own commercial company, but accepts transfers from 23@me, FTDNA and Ancestry and has tons of matches. They promise to lift DNA from old (affixed by saliva) stamps, so don't throw out old letters. ))

I haven't tried that yet! It took me forever to get the hang of GEDmatch, to be sure. That old letters thing sounds cool too! Giving me ideas...

 

[Charlot123]

I am not okay with 23andMe and Ancestry. I guess things have changed now, but I absolutely remember reading about a case where LE submitted a sample from a crime scene, not as LE but presenting themselves as a private citizen looking for genealogical relatives etc. They found matches and knew they had the right suspect, then built their case using legal means and legally obtained DNA from the suspect. I assume now that would not be permitted.

Are all of the samples that were obtained before the opt-in off limits to LE?

You know, it is slightly unusual. Gedmatch doesn't accept samples. And 23@me or any other private company have regulated procedures of collection, so a sample from the crime scene won't work for them. I remember with GSK case, the biggest problem was to present the samples they had in the format acceptable for Gedmatch. It took several months, because LE were doing it for the first time. So i can imagine FBI lab being able to process DNA, get the code, run it through CODIS, transfer into Gedmatch format and upload into Gedmatch to compare with opted-in samples. These are all computer programs based on initial labwork. What I can't understand is how an average LEO would do it all. And - it won't fly in court. In court, if they found a second cousin via Gedmatch, it has to be among opted-in matches, etc.

 

[esayer]

No.
It is frequently smoked.

I know, but I don't know any other drug that is injected, and Bryan got needles.

 

[Sillybilly]

AFAIK, needles are only used for heroin...right? She said they got needles for what he claimed was his aunt's diabetes or something.

Meth can be injected:

Shooting Meth

Meth, or Methamphetamine, is one of the most addictive and deadly of all drugs. In particular, shooting Meth, or injecting it, is incredibly dangerous.

www.addictioncenter.com

There are many different ways of ingesting Meth; the most common of which are oral consumption, smoking, snorting, and injecting. While all forms of Meth use are likely to lead to addiction, medical issues, mental health problems, and possibly even death, injecting is likely the most dangerous. The process of injecting and getting high from Meth is known as shooting up.

 

[esayer]

More illicit drugs than just heroin are injected:
https://nida.nih.gov/sites/default/files/cadchart.pdf

I can't read that link...

 

[esayer]

Meth can be injected:

Shooting Meth

Meth, or Methamphetamine, is one of the most addictive and deadly of all drugs. In particular, shooting Meth, or injecting it, is incredibly dangerous.

www.addictioncenter.com

There are many different ways of ingesting Meth; the most common of which are oral consumption, smoking, snorting, and injecting. While all forms of Meth use are likely to lead to addiction, medical issues, mental health problems, and possibly even death, injecting is likely the most dangerous. The process of injecting and getting high from Meth is known as shooting up.

I definitely suspect he was on meth instead of heroin to be sure...IDK much about either drug but I have have friends on both and meth ppl were awake and heroin ppl were asleep, in my experience lol. But anyway who even knows what's true so I'll save my drug speculation.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

Innocent until proven guilty has to do with the criminal justice system. Not with how people uninvolved in the case may judge a defendant as guilty before he’s been declared such by a jury.

But is it fair to judge someone when that person has only been charged with a crime (or many), not convicted?

I mean, we all have our opinions but that's just what they are. Opinions. We are here to share them & discuss different POV, not to judge people. JMO.

 

[katydid23]

You know, it is slightly unusual. Gedmatch doesn't accept samples. And 23@me or any other private company have regulated procedures of collection, so a sample from the crime scene won't work for them. I remember with GSK case, the biggest problem was to present the samples they had in the format acceptable for Gedmatch. It took several months, because LE were doing it for the first time. So i can imagine FBI lab being able to process DNA, get the code, run it through CODIS, transfer into Gedmatch format and upload into Gedmatch to compare with opted-in samples. These are all computer programs based on initial labwork. What I can't understand is how an average LEO would do it all. And - it won't fly in court. In court, if they found a second cousin via Gedmatch, it has to be among opted-in matches, etc.

An average LEO probably didnt do it all. They already announced collaboration with Companies like @OthramTech &
@Identifinders

Genetic genealogy is solving high-profile cases, helped link suspect to ‘Idaho 4 murders’

Companies put together DNA profiles from tiny amounts of DNA, trace it back many generations in databases, and narrow down the family tree to find a match.

bit.ly

 

[Sillybilly]

But is it fair to judge someone when that person has only been charged with a crime (or many), not convicted?

I mean, we all have our opinions but that's just what they are. Opinions. We are here to share them & discuss different POV, not to judge people. JMO.

The presumption of innocence is a principle that applies throughout the judicial system. The general public is not part of that system, and members of the public are not held to that same principle.

IOW, this discussion does not have to be based on the presumption of innocence.

 

[katydid23]

But is it fair to judge someone when that person has only been charged with a crime (or many), not convicted?

I mean, we all have our opinions but that's just what they are. Opinions. We are here to share them & discuss different POV, not to judge people. JMO.

I don't think it is necessarily judging them, to discuss the potential evidence that LE allegedly reports having. Especially once we read the Probable Cause documents and Arrest Warrants and watch the initial hearings.

I am not judging him by acknowledging that he has the same kind of car that was seen on video leaving the scene of the crime that morning. Or discussing news reports that his DNA was allegedly found at the crime scene.

 

[esayer]

Oh man, click on the NY Post “series of videos” source link to the friend who tells about his alleged heroin use and it takes you to TikTok and if that’s not bad enough, the account has been removed.
Everyone from the Daily Mail to TMZ have a link to nothing now.

She is actually a family friend though.

 

[kittythehare]

I know, but I don't know any other drug that is injected, and Bryan got needles.

Allegedly
Almost any and every drug can be burnt, diluted and injected. I've seen people injecting every solution known to mankind.
They don't care 'cos they need something for the pain they are in, anything is worth trying. Paracetamol, granny's heart tablets, you name it..

 

[KonaHonu]

911 operators use that term for classification purposes and informational to responding units. We don't know the 911 caller said "unconscious" when they placed the call, it is how the call was dispatched to the responding units. That is an important distinction. IMOO

I posted about that threads ago in a different discusion. "Unconscious person" is a medical call where EMS should have had incident command yet police did not allow EMS to treat. That is unusual but potentially explained by LE coincidentally arriving first and finding a horrific scene with 4 victims meeting the criteria for pre-hospital signs of obvious death. A cop can't simply show up and see a bloody scene and declare "oh my god this is horrible, everyone must be dead." There are specific criteria that must be met in most jurisdictions that go beyond lack of breathing or pulse. If a cop observes lack of breathing and pulse his first order of business should be establish scene safety then expedite treatment. One cop, 4 victims constitutes a mass casualty situation and EMS should have been in to treat IMO. Investigation integrity is ALWAYS secondary.

Not saying LE screwed up, just that the response details that have been reported seem insistent with national standards.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

The only reports about him being addicted to heroin come from his mouth. None of these friends say he was seen with H, or was ever arrested for it, or had proof he went to rehab, or heard it from his family.

It all comes from HIM saying so. I am not sure I believe it actually.

I think he may have had these hour long conversations about it with this girl because he wanted sympathy and attention, maybe.

It seems more likely to me that he was a meth user than a heroin addict. The weight loss and the anger/aggressiveness while still doing his school work and getting good grades? IDK

I am inclined to agree with you about meth being the more likely the drug he did - IF he indeed was a user or addict of an illicit drug - for the exact reasons you pointed out. JMO

I have not seen anything about him ever going to rehab, which also makes me suspicious because coming down from heroin in an extremely horrible thing to go through, and the withdrawals amplify it times 10. I've never done heroin but I have seen what happens when users stop using, and I just can't see BK doing and going thru that on his own.

 

[kittythehare]

I posted about that threads ago in a different discusion. "Unconscious person" is a medical call where EMS should have had incident command yet police did not allow EMS to treat. That is unusual but potentially explained by LE coincidentally arriving first and finding a horrific scene with 4 victims meeting the criteria for pre-hospital signs of obvious death. A cop can't simply show up and see a bloody scene and declare "oh my god this is horrible, everyone must be dead." There are specific criteria that must be met in most jurisdictions that go beyond lack of breathing or pulse. If a cop observes lack of breathing and pulse his first order of business should be establish scene safety then expedite treatment. One cop, 4 victims constitutes a mass casualty situation and EMS should have been in to treat IMO. Investigation integrity is ALWAYS secondary.

Not saying LE screwed up, just that the response details that have been reported seem insistent with national standards.

AFAIK both attend emergency events together in Idaho. As routine.

https://legislature.idaho.gov/wp-content/uploads/OPE/Reports/r1004.pdf

 

[XtremeScorpio]

On Thursday, the Moscow Police Chief told reporters that a
'biohazard remediation,' clean-up consisting of the removal, cleaning, disinfection of bodily fluids and other infectious materials (after a death, accident or communicable disease outbreak), by Trauma Scene Bio Services, would be at the crime scene on Friday but after the press conference where BK's arrest announced, he told the same reporters the court stopped the clean up as scheduled.

Moscow murders: Police begin cleaning biohazards from King Street home

Moscow Police said Thursday they will begin remediation of the home to clean up biohazards or harmful substances.

www.ktvb.com

I wonder if they're going to use the house (after it's cleaned, of course) to show jurors and walk them thru the crime scene during the trial.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't know if this has been pointed out but if not I will because it is certainly noticeable to me. (from link below)

WHAT DO WE NOT SEE HERE ?


View attachment 391765.

I see no scratches whatsoever. No claw marks, no gouges. Nothing but a slight redness at the very top of the throat. Even under large magnification nothing is visible. The time since November 13th would not be enough to heal any significant mark completely.


We know that the reference "some" of the victims had defensive wounds has always been used. Some is certainly more than one--it could be 2, 3 or all 4. One of the things I HIGHLY doubt is that none of the girls would have attempted to scratch his face in their struggle to avoid death. And the fingernails of females can do significant damage.


So this means that there cannot be any hoped-for skin cells at least from his face under their fingernails because there is no evidence of where it could have originated. The prosecution cannot merely speculate that he covered his face with a mask, the defense lawyer would force them to produce evidence of it.


If the rest of his body looks like this and if they cannot find that mask or prove one was used, this is a problem for the prosecution. It is certainly a factor which is exculpatory.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/12/bryan-kohberger-01.jpg

Not so certain with just this picture and 47 days out.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

I'd like to get some of your thoughts on this.

So, i'm a movie guy. I've watched some of the great actors. Nicholson, De Niro, Hoffman, Brando, Betty Davis etc.

It's been said that an actor can be so intertwined with their character that they become that character and are locked in with the thoughts, mood, personality and disposition of the character they are portraying. It can take it's toll if the character is very complex and certainly if it's a very depressing, moody character. Now what if this guy Bryan had some kind of psychopath disposition but as a student in criminology was so in tune with thinking the way a homicidal criminal thinks that he became that homicidal criminal? Without the latter he would not be what he is today. Not all psychopaths are into criminology. Do you think he always thought about killing and naturally gravitated towards criminology because of that? Going to school for criminology almost implies that you're working to be on the right side of the law rather than the wrong side of it....I would think.

It's like, why go to school and spend all that time and effort just to throw it away killing people in the manner that he did?....unless the constant exposure to the criminal mind + the underlying psychopathy pushed him over the edge into the evil realm.

There's so many facts and info to be learned yet regarding the suspect and the question might be premature but just wondering if anybody had any thoughts on this.

 

[KonaHonu]

I don't think it is necessarily judging them, to discuss the potential evidence that LE allegedly reports having. Especially once we read the Probable Cause documents and Arrest Warrants and watch the initial hearings.

I am not judging him by acknowledging that he has the same kind of car that was seen on video leaving the scene of the crime that morning. Or discussing news reports that his DNA was allegedly found at the crime scene.

Personally I am holding off with judging BK or making too many comments until we see the PCA. Police have said that they have his DNA at the scene and he owns a car seen near the crime scene. I want to know details. I saw a discussion here earlier today about him possibly being an uber eats driver. Frankly, his DNA presence in this case is not very compelling to me. College towns, lots of innocent possibilities. And driving near a crime scene? I've done that many times.

I'm not defending BK. I'm just saying that jumping on the dogpile when we know nothing but one police chief's vague description of the evidence is not very compelling. There is a reason our system requires transparency.