ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 12

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion

Moscow ID Police Departement Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Street Homicide

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

As Kaylee's parents said she was "a websleuth", we don't know if they meant she was an actual WSer or if it was used in a more generic sense.

If any member or guest reading here knows that Kaylee was in fact a Websleuths member, and her user ID, please send me a private message to advise. Tricia has asked me to find out as she would like to send flowers or make a donation to something in Kaylee's name.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please read The Rules (linked in my signature), and continue discussion here.

Also, for anyone other than victims or an officially named POI/suspect, use initials or your post will be removed.

No sleuthing or insinuations/accusations against anyone who is not officially named a POI/suspect by LE.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Re the accusations, insinuations, sleuthing of non POIs

from: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, or others who have not been officially designated by law enforcement or in mainstream media as a Person of Interest or suspect is not allowed (i.e. Sleuthing out this type of information, and publicly posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public is not allowed and such posts will be removed, along with any posts that encourage such sleuthing).

This does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media. Members may reasonably discuss what is said in MSM by them or about them, but do not make random accusations, insinuations, suggest their involvement, trash, bash or attack them, or speculate negatively about them.

Rules are rules. The above is not difficult to understand and we are NOT going to post this again and there will be no additional on thread reminders. If members can't respect this forum and Tricia's rules, from this point forward any member violating the above most basic principle of Websleuths will be placed on a 3 day Time Out. Any further violations will result in a 1 week Time Out and a permanent Thread Reply Ban.

 

[Sillybilly]

Admin Note > Horse's mouth:

LE has said the skinned dog is not related.

Detectives are aware of a Latah County Sheriff’s Office incident of the report of a skinned dog and have determined it is unrelated to this incident. Contact Latah County Sheriff’s Office for further details. Additionally, Detectives are also aware of a Moscow Police incident of the report of deceased animals left on a resident’s property. This was determined to be wildlife activity and unrelated to the incident.

Members have been advised before not to discuss it any further. If you still wish to discuss it further, call the Sheriff's Office but don't post about it here or you may lose posting privileges.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Posts have been removed.

Websleuths is fact based and does not allow discussion based on numerology, paranormal, or other metaphysical content.

This discussion is case specific, dedicated to this crime. Please do not bring in other cases just because they are stabbings. Stick to discussing what is directly related to this case and THIS case only.

Thank you.

 

[YaYa_521]

Continue here.

 

[dotr]

Nov 23 2022

 

[remilo]

MOO on the 911 call, not that it matters much to the crime, is that a roommate either saw one of the victim’s room’s door open or simply tried to go into the room, but the door wouldn’t open all the way. They realized it was a person blocking the door and they assumed this person had passed out. I think the “friends called” was possibly a family member who lived across the street to come over to help. Once they realized the door wouldn’t open more and the person wasn’t waking up they called 911 about an ‘unconscious person.’ I don’t know if a 911 operator would stay on the line and ask them to force the door open to render aid or not, but if they did and they saw the crime scene, the call probably got distressing to say the least. Obviously MOO.

Edit: clarity

 

[SouthAussie]

In the last thread, @rahod1 put up this post.

Here is a little more info about why the police are looking at similarities between the two cases .......


"Both unsolved cases involved a suspect armed with a knife breaking into a home at around 3am and attacking victims while they slept in their beds.

Both murders took place on the 13th of the month.

Also in both cases, other people were home at the time of the killings and were left unharmed."

Mother of murdered Oregon man speaks out after police reveal possible link to Idaho student slayings

 

[chuckyinvestigates]

MOO on the 911 call, not that it matters much to the crime, is that a roommate either saw one of the victim’s room’s door open or simply tried to go into the room, but the door wouldn’t open all the way. They realized it was a person blocking the door and they assumed this person had passed out. I think the “friends called” was possibly a family member who lived across the street to come over to help. This family member probably brought someone with him to help. Once they realized the door wouldn’t open more and the person wasn’t waking up they called 911 about an ‘unconscious person.’ I don’t know if a 911 operator would stay on the line and ask them to force the door open to render aid or not, but if they did and they saw the crime scene, the call probably got distressing to say the least. Obviously MOO.

Edit: clarity

How could a person have been blocking the door if the killer was the last one out? Unless they were clinging to life, crawling towards the door? Doesn't make sense.

 

[KonaHonu]

I don't think that's accurate. Although it varies a bit by state, obvious death can be determined by a number of responders. Here's some reference from Spokane county WA:

https://www.spokanecounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/1433/Who-Can-Pronounce-Death-and-Who-Can-Sign-a-Death-Certificate-PDF

I wasn't able to quickly find Idaho rules, but obvious things like decapitation, rigor mortis, algor mortis, palor mortis, stage of decomposition, insect activity, etc. do not require EMT to treat. The death certificate and determining manner of death is left up to the coroner, but when LE showed up to the murders, they were able to determine that the victims were dead. They were not able to determine manner and time of death, but that's a whole other issue.

Quoting and responding to Sister Golden Hair from previous thread.

Yes, I found that doccument as well. Notice it does not authorize LEOs to declare death. But that only applies to one county in Washington.

I am having a hard time reconciling that the roommates/friends did not think death was obvious but the cop did. Sure, the cop is trained and they are (presumably) not. But if you read the obvious signs of death they are pretty obvious. (I posted an example above.)

And I'm not trying to beat a dead horse on this. It could be important because it could mean the person the roommates called about was not as savagely attacked as the others. Here's a scenario I can imagine:

Roommates wake up and find Xana or Ethan laying on the floor. The try to rouse then call friends then the friend call 911. Cops arrive first and observe lividity and determine death then clear the house and find the others and observe lividity in all four. The students may have seen the lividity and not known what it was.

Now, the reason this would be important is because it would indicate that that victim's injuries may not have been as severe indicating he/she was not a target but rather just got in the way.

 

[remilo]

How could a person have been blocking the door if the killer was the last one out? Unless they were clinging to life, crawling towards the door? Doesn't make sense.

It’s awful to even type this, but in that scenario, they were most likely crawling towards the door. Not all deaths are instant, bleeding out can be slow.

 

[rahod1]

Since this was posted right before the previous thread was closed, I'll post again so people can reply.
BTW..this may have already been posted earlier and I missed it.

Idaho student murders may be linked to stabbing a year earlier and 400 miles away, police reveal

 

[chuckyinvestigates]

It’s awful to even type this, but in that scenario, they were most likely crawling towards the door. Not all deaths are instant, bleeding out can be slow.

If you're able to crawl towards the door, why not just reach for your cell phone? Most likely at arms length from your bed anyway.

 

[truthseeker2022]

Since this was posted right before the previous thread was closed, I'll post again so people can reply.
BTW..this may have already been posted earlier and I missed it.

Idaho student murders may be linked to stabbing a year earlier and 400 miles away, police reveal

There are some similarities. I'm interested in what the FBI's profiler thinks of these two cases.

 

[truthseeker2022]

If you're able to crawl towards the door, why not just reach for your cell phone? Most likely at arms length from your bed anyway.

I imagine if you have been stabbed a half a dozen or more times you are not thinking straight.

 

[remilo]

If you're able to crawl towards the door, why not just reach for your cell phone? Most likely at arms length from your bed anyway.

I mean there’s a million different scenarios, but maybe during a struggle the victim ended up on the floor and the door was closer than the phone. Or maybe there was no attempt to get out and the struggle ended there and then on the floor. I just don’t see another scenario where one of these victims was mistaken as an unconscious person. Why would the killer spend time and possibly spread more DNA locking doors behind them? If they were asleep in bed, woke up during the attack, fought back and ended up on the floor, it wouldn’t be inconceivable that their body was blocking a door from fully opening.

Edit to add: walking out a door and screaming for help to one of the 4, or possibly more, people also sleeping in the house is a lot less involved than grabbing a phone in the dark, unlocking the phone, opening up the phone app, dialing the number. IMHO.

 

[chuckyinvestigates]

I mean there’s a million different scenarios, but maybe during a struggle the victim ended up on the floor and the door was closer than the phone. Or maybe there was no attempt to get out and the struggle ended there and then on the floor. I just don’t see another scenario where one of these victims was mistaken as an unconscious person. Why would the killer spend time and possibly spread more DNA locking doors behind them? If they were asleep in bed, woke up during the attack, fought back and ended up on the floor, it wouldn’t be inconceivable that their body was blocking a door from fully opening.

It's not inconceivable, but MOO, it's much more likely that the killer wore gloves and locked the door on the way out. No risk of spreading DNA.

 

[Dr. Farce]

It's not inconceivable, but MOO, it's much more likely that the killer wore gloves and locked the door on the way out. No risk of spreading DNA.

What would be the reason for that? It would take a lot of thought to remember to lock the door before closing right after commuting murder.