ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 24

[SUSAN ANN]

It seems we have several new people here. Previous threads on this case contain things such as the complete floor plans of the house. It is very valuable to go back to the first thread and read them all as you will then get complete detailed information as it is currently known.

I know, but I don’t believe those contain information as to whether or not the front door was found open by the police unless, of course, the police choose to not tell the public that.

 

[sds71]

Thompson said the Latah County Prosecutor’s Office is currently providing legal advice to law enforcement working the case, as well as obtaining search warrants. He said his office has obtained more than 50 search warrants on this investigation…

“There’s always a concern, particularly in smaller communities like ours, that we need to be responsible with what information is made available to the public so we don’t risk tainting the prospective jury pool,” Prosecutor Bill Thompson told the Daily News on Tuesday. “Assuming that we’re able to file a case and it goes to trial, we want to be able to pick an unbiased jury from within the community.”

Moscow murders: Prosecutor cites importance of case integrity

The Latah County prosecutor said the concern about having an unbiased jury influences what is being shared publicly about the investigation into the Nov. 13 murders of four University of

dnews.com

 

[CSIDreamer]

The initial MPD announcement mentioned similar to "coordinated with families" and led me to believe the parents/relatives of the deceased had requested certain items.

Also that announcement said they would use a truck and block off roads, I didn't see that today.

I would guess if SG or his PI didn't want Kaylee’s possessions removed, they would leave them for now? I'm thinking if that's the case, they can deal with the property management company when the scene is released? Jmo

 

[General wooster]

Just my own opinion that the perp knew at least one victim but had enough humanity to not kill a little dog. I guess a psychiatrist would have to figure that out.

No human capacity playing a part here. Other reasons for Murphy’s survival. This murder was savagery. The dog was not spared, just his day … isn’t that what they say …”Every dog has….”

 

[crimesnooper]

try several hundred new people?

Maybe it's because I am using my phone but the layout to access the "beginning" posts is is really confusing. Normally I would start as you suggested..at the beginning..if I could find it !! Lol

 

[annpats]

The only other case this reminds me of is the Miyazawa murders in Setagaya, Japan in 2000. An unknown perp broken into the house while they were asleep and stabbed them all to death. No one heard or saw anything, no-one has ever been caught despite the police having DNA, and no-one knows if it was a random killing or someone known to the family.

Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

Mikio Miyazawa 44, wife Yasuko 41, Niina 8, and Rei 6 "All four were brutally murdered on December 30, 2000 in a crime that shocked Japan and began a grim new chapter in the country's criminal history. Police know so much about the killer — everything except who he is and why he committed such...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Two of the residents in the home when the others were murdered survived (as did Murphy). We don’t know whether the murderer(s) knew the other residents were there or not.

But suppose the murderer(s) DID know they were there. Why spare them? (And thank goodness they WERE spared.)

Possibilities I can imagine:

- the murderer(s) did not know the other two were there.

- something interrupted plans, so the murderer(s) stopped and left before accomplishing plans to kill all people in the home.

- the four students who were killed were targeted because the murderer(s) believed they knew something or participated in something or were a party to something the other two didn’t/weren’t (at least as far as the murderer(s) knew).

- the three females who were killed were targeted because the murderer(s) believed they knew something or participated in something or were a party to something the other two females didn’t/weren’t, and the male was a collateral murder because he was there and a potential threat and witness.

There are other possibilities.

But it occurs to me that the three females killed were close BEFORE college as they all came from the Coeur d’Alene/Post Falls area of northern Idaho. Having a longer standing friendship, they may have shared confidences, friendships and other relationships, and experiences the others didn’t (and the murderer might have been aware of or suspected that). Or, they may have represented something - wealth, social standing, status, success, sexually active attractive female - the murderer felt they deserved but were left out of. If that feeling preexisted these females move to college in Moscow, that may have factored into the murderer’s motive to kill all three of those females, but spare the other two.

Also, KG may have had an experience or interaction (or simply have been seen) while she was recently in the CdA area that resurrected this feeling in someone there, who then pursued KG to Moscow with intent to kill the entire group of three.

So, while looking at the victims‘ close and more distant social circles, LE is likely having to look not just in Moscow, but also in CdA - to any of these three females recent experiences there and back in time to when all three resided there to determine if someone from their past has some personal (and rational only to that someone) motive to kill them.

Good point about the history of friendships and dynamics or ties to hometown area. Could be built up resentment of some sort from something and someone was stewing about it.

I was shocked to find out the killer to Crystal and Kylen's double murder in Utah. So violent and completely senseless (aren't they all though?) The fact it was a semi-acquaintance/co-worker of Crystal's where the motive seems to be their identities/lifestyle and just hate in general.

The resentment seemed to build over time.. about them parking their van in McDonald's parking lot and coming to McDonalds to make food on their day off. So he just had a problem with them period and he stewed and stewed - then killed them....

"Pinkusiewicz had gotten into scuffle with Turner when she came into the McDonald’s kitchen off-shift to make some food for herself and Schulte. “Why are you back here? You don’t have the right to be back here!” he belligerently screamed at Turner. At the time, Merry Woodruff, a manager at McDonald’s who witnessed the episode, thought it was odd that he was so upset."

Love, Hate, and Homicide in the High Desert

When a lesbian couple was murdered on a remote trail in Moab, Utah, it reinforced one gruesome truth: for the LGBTQ+ community, the great outdoors can be a deadly place.

www.marieclaire.com

 

[Allabouttrial]

Would anyone be interested in a post that states and sources the facts, timelines, etc.? I’d get a mod to approve first before posting but I feel like it could seriously slow down the movements of the threads to a point where we could actually discuss the case instead of sifting through speculation.

I’ve been working on a doc and I don’t want to put a ton of effort and time into it unless it will be used and referenced. Thoughts?

ETA it would include sources on things that will prevent new members from bringing up things discussed weeks ago. No offense to those who are new to the thread.

Yeah no, by all means post one, but questions will still be asked.

Also, the facts of the case are stated clearly on MPD's site.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

Or we have a dedicated media thread.

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Died in Apparent Homicide, Moscow, 13 Nov 2022 ****Media Thread**** NO DISCUSSION

Autopsies were conducted on November 17th. The Latah County Coroner confirmed the identity of the four murdered individuals and their cause and manner of death as homicide by stabbing. The coroner stated the four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds, and each was stabbed...

www.websleuths.com

Kindly kept up to date mainly by @Seattle1 and @margarita25

 

[CSIDreamer]

It seems we have several new people here. Previous threads on this case contain things such as the complete floor plans of the house. It is very valuable to go back to the first thread and read them all as you will then get complete detailed information as it is currently known.

That takes hours upon hours in all due respect. I've been a member here for years and my schedule has me skipping page after page here. JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

This never made any sense to me either..the only thing I can think of is maybe she finished her classes over the summer? Moo.

independent study to finish the senior project in her degree. Just a guess, but routine. If she was in IT as has been mentioned, probably could work from parents home.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I hope they have cameras all over the place to see who all tries to get a look. JMO

I wonder if they're clearing out the crime scene to see if killer will return to secretly try to snoop or look things over? May be too late for that, but never know.

 

[Kano]

The only other case this reminds me of is the Miyazawa murders in Setagaya, Japan in 2000. An unknown perp broken into the house while they were asleep and stabbed them all to death. No-one has ever been caught, and no-one knows if it was a random killing or someone known to the family.

Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

Mikio Miyazawa 44, wife Yasuko 41, Niina 8, and Rei 6 "All four were brutally murdered on December 30, 2000 in a crime that shocked Japan and began a grim new chapter in the country's criminal history. Police know so much about the killer — everything except who he is and why he committed such...

www.websleuths.com

it only reminds me of that case because of the multiple floor layout. That Japanese family had fewer points of access on a personal level than this sorority house

It's worth noting that there was a window screen on the ground in the back yard but it appears the window screen actually from a kitchen window and not a bedroom window.

 

[EmmieA]

I have posted a couple of my theories, which are not similar to yours (I think it's someone local, from outer circles) , but interesting perspective and I wanted to comment on it to dig a bit further.

What do you make of LE saying the crime scene was "sloppy", and that K's wounds were worse than the others? I think there could be various reasons for those aspects of it, some which fit in your theory and some which don't.

Where was he staying while there - was he only there for a few hours and drove away, or staying in a local hotel for a few nights? If that's a suspicion, I wonder if LE have checked hotel records for nights around that time. Or AirBNB.

We don't know when the surviving roommates would have came home (as far as I'm aware), so how do we know he didn't know more people were in there?

Do you think LE would look at this angle? It seems a lot of what they are asking the public is for circumstantial information like where they were beforehand, who they were with, what interactions, photos/video, etc. That doesn't really point to me that this was a random person they had no interaction with ever.

But appreciate your opinion - I think it's important that this is looked from all angles. I don't follow true crime or the like very closely so I'd also be curious if there are more offenders that fit this sort of bill rather than knowing the victims or targeting them specifically because of certain characteristics.

MOO

Just want to point out that LE did not say that K’s wounds were worse than the others. K’s father said her wounds were worse than M’s (paraphrasing I don’t have his exact quote.) We don’t know anything about the severity of E & X’s wounds.

ETA: Surviving roommates were home by 1am, per LE.

MOO

 

[Atlmom]

I’m sure there are some females out there who could murder 4 adults, especially if the victims were quickly disabled on the bed during sleep. But, IMO, because of the immense strength it would take to commit this particular crime, I think the killer is a very strong, large male.

I’ve linked below an interesting podcast that discusses another unsolved stabbing murder from July 2021 in Atlanta, Ga, which now appears to be a cold case. Even if you’re not familiar with the case of Katie Janness, the discussion of stab wounds from different types of knives and the sheer strength it takes to make repeated, deep, stab wounds is informative and quite interesting.

Murder in Piedmont Park - Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan (podcast)

00:37:10 - Katherine “Katie” Janness takes her dog, Bowie, for a late-night walk in the Midtown area of Atlanta. Janness stops at a local bar to say hello to h…

amp.listennotes.com

On another note, this may have been discussed earlier and I missed it: When SG stated to mainstream media “I’ll cut to the chase — their means of death don’t match,” Steve Goncalves told Fox News on Saturday. Steve told the news outlet that there were differences in the women’s deaths, though he didn't share specifics”. iF this is factual information, my immediate thought was “were different types of knives used on K & M, thereby,leaving different types of wounds?” Just my own speculation.

Father Of Slain Idaho College Student Kaylee Goncalves Said ‘Means Of Death Don’t Match’ Between Victims | Oxygen Official Site

The father of slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves said his daughter and fellow victim Madison Mogen, who had been sleeping beside her at the time of the attack, had different injuries. “I’ll cut to the chase — their means of death don’t match,” Steve Goncalves told Fox News on...

www.oxygen.com

 

[WildWest]

Maybe it's because I am using my phone but the layout to access the "beginning" posts is is really confusing. Normally I would start as you suggested..at the beginning..if I could find it !! Lol

Maybe this will help? The first post of every thread looks like this (notice the #1 on the top right?) This happens to be thread #24 they the links are always first post on every thread.

 

[Louise369]

Here is what I think so far, IMO:

Killer did not know the students.
No sexual component to the murders. This is all about power, control and possibly viewed as a type of professionalism by the killer.
He observed who slept where by watching the house from the back. It IS like a fishbowl. That is how he knew when the residents went to bed, then waited a little while until he was sure they were asleep.
I don't think he bothered to case the house from the front that night, otherwise he would know more than 4 were in there by counting the vehicles. He may have counted on a previous night before K had her new car.
He was unaware of the bedrooms on the 1st floor which indicates he may not be from the Pacific Northwest where multi-level homes are common and may have bedrooms on the 1st floor.
I don't think he was familiar with college rental housing or that this type of house would have more than 4 bedrooms.
This crime was done to terrorize and possibly teach someone (not the students he killed) a lesson.
LE will not find a direct link to the killer in the history of any of the residents of the house.
He will not be in CODIS or NCIC.
He has committed similar crimes before and will re-offend.
IMO he left the area immediately after committing the crime and will not be back.

Could you share more about who you think he was wanting to terrorize or “teach a lesson” to, if not the victims ?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Would anyone be interested in a post that states and sources the facts, timelines, etc.? I’d get a mod to approve first before posting but I feel like it could seriously slow down the movements of the threads to a point where we could actually discuss the case instead of sifting through speculation.

I’ve been working on a doc and I don’t want to put a ton of effort and time into it unless it will be used and referenced. Thoughts?

ETA it would include sources on things that will prevent new members from bringing up things discussed weeks ago. No offense to those who are new to the thread.

How about put it in the media thread?

 

[crimesnooper]

Today's statement by the police made it clear it is not giving Kaylee's dad inside information such as her manner of death was more brutal than the other three.

 

[Diddian]

This never made any sense to me either..the only thing I can think of is maybe she finished her classes over the summer? Moo.

Or she may have taken extra credits some semesters. I was working half-time and paying my own way and could take several extra credits for the same price as what was considered a full load, so I did that to finish early. KG's family reports her as a fairly driven individual, so maybe she did the same.

 

[redcedarblues]

Greed Sex Revenge Thrill

This is an attempt to organize some of the existing theories of motive according to GSRT. This is in no way comprehensive.

GREED: skipping over this one since there is no indication yet of a financial motivation

SEX:
-Sex as motive includes the theory of..
-One or more of the girls being targeted with the knife as a kind of sexual weapon. (No one has talked about E being a primary sexual target.)

-The stalker theory (could be long term or short term stalker)

(IMO the killing of 4 people makes the "sex is primary" less compelling. The killer seemed to seek out other victims so I think there is more to the motive. )

REVENGE: Revenge as motive includes a number of theories.
-One or more of the roommates had a personal fight with someone(s) who wanted revenge
-The group was targeted for living a life the killer wanted (the killer could know them personally or not at all)
-The killer felt slighted by the group in some way (either personally or symbolically)
- The killer wanted revenge against one person and killed the other people as a part of the revenge against the intended target.
- The killer primarily wanted revenge against a third entity (the house, the town, the sorority or frat, the school etc)
- The victims knew something and the killer wanted to keep them quiet (more far fetched)
- A third party hired someone to kill a group of people (also far fetched)

Revenge is easily combined with the sex motive. This would include the theory (for example) that K was moving away and a "stalker felt betrayed" .
(( Revenge killing can have a "loud" element such as manifestos, videos, or letters making sure people KNOW about the killer's anger and feeling of victimization. This could be done publicly (Elliott Rodger) or anonymously (Zodiac, Unabomber). The lack of any "noise" from this killer seems important.

If revenge is a primary motive, even with a "quiet killer" I think it's unlikely the killer has never expressed their grievances to anyone either in their life or over social media. I really would suspect this person has some sort of a digital footprint of grievances. ))

IMO, I think almost certainly there is some sort of revenge component based on the killing of 4 people. Either revenge against the group as a whole or revenge against the intended target by killing her friends.

THRILL: Then there is the thrill kill. A post on WS talked about Elliott Rodger who stabbed his friend and friend's parents at night. He claimed no motive although gave indications he despised happy people (some revenge thoughts perhaps), had a desire to kill, and thought killing his friend made the murders more interesting. This Idaho seems to have more in common with that case. The thrill kill is really scary because it could be totally personal or totally random, based on some sort of predatory and psychopathic instinct.

TLDR: MOO it seems as though the motive for these killings could be a combination of thrill, revenge, and sexual fantasy which could be why there are a lot of confounding aspects and why it's hard to formulate a clear direction. However a revenge killer has likely made their distaste known to someone somewhere so that could be important in terms of leads

Correct name is Alec Kreider who stabbed his friend and friend's parents