ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[MrsWatson]

Slain Idaho student's dad says body showed signs she defended herself

The father of one of four slain Idaho students has revealed that his daughter's autopsy reports showed that his daughter Xana's skin showed 'Bruises, torn by the knife.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Trino]

Great post, and I agree 100%. I don’t see a person holding a grudge and taking it out on three others. I think the killer either didn’t realize more people were in the home, or they were spooked off.

Agree completely. The question: is he a student? My gut feeling is saying no, but anything is possible.

 

[DizzyB]

https://www.uidaho.edu/-/media/UIdaho-Responsive/Files/infrastructure/PSS/annual-security-fire-safety-report.pdf

University of Idaho’s Clery report shows some pretty low crime statistics. Starts on page 75 of the link. I learned of the Clery Act when my kid was an RA at her college, and there was a plaque outside her dorm. Jeanne Clery was raped and murdered in her dorm room by another student when she awoke during a robbery attempt. It was a sobering thought that my child lived in a building where this happened. The Clery Act, fought for by her parents, requires colleges and universities to report crime data and outline procedures to keep students safe and aware of any threats to their safety. Clery reporting does include off campus surrounding areas where students live, although the house here may have been outside that boundary.

If you have a kid looking at schools, take a look at the Clery reporting statistics relative to similar size schools. It’s important stuff.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

You nailed it. I was once in a fight for my life, at work. A man was attempting to kill me, with his hands. We were rolling around on the ground, fighting. Other officers were nearby. I could hear them talking, but I couldn’t get out a yell or a scream. He was much larger than me. He was hitting me hard, in the face and the sides of my head. I was just about to lose consciousness.

A female officer just happened to look over my way and scream. That was the most beautiful sound I ever heard in my life. Help came fast. I survived.

i can reiterate this experience. I was being sexually assaulted, when 13,... I only got away because the offender (drunk janitor at my school) heard footsteps and looked away for a split second. I ran, fell, got all bloody. BUT I could not scream, could not speak for two days.

Because of this, I have always wondered how psychologists should help design self defense programs.
Even after some years of karate training, I was always afraid I would not scream.

 

[Justice101]

This crime is beyond the scope of understanding.

Targeted to me means one of two things 1) one of the victims was stabbed many many more times than the others or 2) (sorry to be graphic) but most of the 4 had their necks slit while sleeping.

Since the 2 surviving women are cooperating and probably giving LE thoughts on the comings and goings at the house, I suspect the police have some (promising) leads that they are following up on.

I suspect if the sliding door was left open for the dog to go pee, that this might have been seen and cased as a regular occurrence by a stalker. However, some Ex boyfriend/girlfriend or wanna be is not out of the question although this does not look like the act of a college student.

This apparently was a horrible crime scene and the police will get help from other agencies to help solve the crime.

 

[Khammer]

<modsnip>
I'm thinking Maddie and Kaylee (from the food truck trip) slept in the 2-bedrooms located on the 1st floor. Those 2-rooms are on the backside of the 1st floor. IMHO Ethan and his girlfriend were on the 2nd floor residing. The other two females slept on the 3rd floor. <modsnip>
Also, to make note on the severity of being stabbed, it only takes one deep plunge into a person to immobilize them. Additionally, if the initial stabbing enters the chest, instantly the ability to yell or scream is limited if the knife enters a lung and or the depth of the knife going in can shock a person enough to stop them from fighting. However, Xana's father stated that his daughter gave an incredible fight considering what the autopsy report described, bruises and tears from the knife. So, I'm assuming the 1st floor girls were murdered first. Ethan may have heard something and got up to see what was going on, he instantly got attacked at the 2nd floor bedroom doorway and died on the floor near the door, Xana had enough time to attempt to fight back, the battle that he got from her took him out of the original plan of going up to the 3rd floor and taking everyone out. However, he may have felt that the noise from Xana's fight was going to bring the police dept there shortly or maybe a neighbor could have woken up from the noise. Therefore, I don't think he had enough time and was more afraid of getting caught from the current blood bath that he created on the first two floors thus far. IMHO

My assumption, is that the person who committed the crime, has an eyesight view of the back side of the house from a side street or some place that is inconspicuous to hiding this person's creepy behavior, possibly a peeping tom, or just straight perversion. This is not a crime of passion, it's 100% premeditated, carrying around a 6-inch knife is not the average size pocketknife that guys carry around to cut their nails, etc. This crime was planned out and it was a solo job. The assailant knew what they were doing, had an extremely sharp knife, and knew how to use it and were well aware of the vital points in the human body. It only takes one stabbing into a human body to immobilize and silence them. The only person that had a chance, was Xana and she almost succeeded, but her last fight in life possibly saved the other two girls upstairs. That is how the surviving two roommates should be viewing the luck of their survival. My gratitude in life eternally would be going to Xana's family for raising such a strong independent girl that may have redirected this sick person's original plans. IMHO

This is the scenario that I’ve been assuming the whole time. The two girls are killed while asleep (either on the first or third floors—this is unclear), then Ethan hears something and gets up to check. He’s attacked, then Xana is. They weren’t supposed to be killed, but the SP couldn’t leave witnesses. JMO.

 

[Curiosa20]

I've lurked this site for years but never joined as I didn't feel I had anything to contribute; at least not until now.

I'm a resident physician and <mmodsnip>

IMO, the easiest answer would be to utilize PPE<modsnip>s. Pre-Covid, all the surgical PPE was back in the OR and more difficult for a random employee to take home. Post-Covid, it became more acceptable to leave surgical PPE on the hospital floor or to see someone pop into the OR to grab a suit, gown and hood before heading back out to the floor.

The surgical PPE is pretty incredible <modsnip> postpartum hemorrhages not infrequently and the PPE has always kept my scrubs and shoes underneath dry. A 2,3, and even 4 LITER blood loss can occur quickly (literally minutes). OR becomes a horror scene with blood pooling on the floor and blood soaking into PPE. After removing the PPE, I am nearly always surprised at how great it is at keeping your clothing underneath dry.

The suspect could have used the following PPE to make for a fast and easy escape.
-Biohazard body suit (we call them bunny suits)
-Surgical gown
-Shoe covers (extend up to. the knee)
-Surgical helmet (basically a hood with built in face shield that tucks into bodysuit.
-double gloved hands in surgical gloves.
-securely tape seams where: pants of jumpsuit meet top of shoe cover, gloves meet sleeves, helmet may or may not need tape.

This can all be gotten for free from a hospital if he were to work at one. One could also buy the pieces online. A lower quality (but still effective) kit could range from $100-$300. Could even be found cheaper perhaps.

So,the perp could have come dressed in PPE, or, they could have come in normal clothes and then dressed the PPE over their "getaway" clothes. Once dressed, he goes in and commits the crimes. Blood is everywhere. He pulls PPE off, bags it up, and walks out in normal clothes without any blood on him. The PPE would also prevent his hair and skin from being found at the crime scene. He may have a bruise if someone fought back, but would likely not have any cuts, scratches, etc. so I would expect minimal DNA evidence to be found.

This is all only my opinion of course. It would require some planning to pull off. It could just as easy be a psychopath who just undressed prior to the murders then showered, got dressed and left without any blood trail.

Hopefully for the families they get their answers soon .

Thank you for this detailed information.
I too have wondered if he slipped in masked, dressed in PPE and whoever first encountered him thought it was a joke of some sort and that’s how he was able to disorient them as he gave orders or simply stabbed one, possibly Ethan, before the torture began. As a couple in one room or possibly awake, perhaps they were the first victims.
The Botanical Garden and adjoining area by the house looks fairly extensive. Do we have a local member who could fill us in on that terrain? Is it dense vegetation or have bike paths? Is there a pond or lake where PPE could be disposed of?
I am so sorry for the families of the precious young victims. The cruelty is unfathomable.

 

[stmarysmead]

Total guesswork alert.

IMO the layout of that house is…different. Suppose the killer was there earlier and entered through the sliding doors? If it was a ‘party house’ there's no bouncer at the door or guest list. He may have been a friend of a friend. He may have not been there before…or frequently. He may live off-campus or at home and not be part of their on-campus Greek social set. I’d be interested to know what when on at the house earlier, before the roommates went the separate ways later that evening. Hopefully the survivors can help with that.

So suppose he comes in through the sliders and something happens to make him/her very angry. The night goes on and maybe he gets drunker and drunker, goes back to his place and decides to make ‘them’ pay. In an inebriated state, his anger could be very generalized. He enters through the sliders as he did before, and doesn’t even realize there are rooms below or is too drunk to process the layout. He finds them all sleeping and indulges his rage.

My only hangup with my theory is…where and how does he clean up? Because he had to be covered in blood himself. Unless he drove back to the family home living there as a commuter. I definitely don‘t see this as a homeless person, because the cleanup or lack thereof would be very conspicuous.

He could even be the 911 caller. When he sobered up, the whole thing could have seemed like a nightmare and he needed some kind of verification. I remember a vicious, property-destructing argument between two drunken sorority sisters and the next day, they were both humiliated when told of the extent of their behavior.

 

[PingTheRouter]

I think the lines are getting blurred between what can and cannot be posted.

if you are ever unsure PM a moderator, and they will tell you if its ok

 

[girlhasnoname]

Also I think roommates tend to give each other some privacy that may not actually be there in the physical space. You’re going to try to drown out 4/5 other people using the bathroom, having noisy habits, cleaning up, having guests over, having significant others sleep over perhaps doing whatever. Unless it was extremely obvious like blood-curdling screaming you may have ignored it thinking someone brought a third party home or it was just normal Saturday night mayhem.

Absolutely. I'd be embarrassed to admit now all the chaos and partying that went on while I was a college student, especially in an off campus home with several young women. All having different class and work schedules, boyfriends, friends, friend of friends in and out constantly. Seldom was the main door locked simply out of having to get up and let people in who forgot their keys.

It really was a survival mechanism I learned Freshman year to block out the loudest outside noise and activities. I would lock my door, headphones and pass out to the world, no problem. It was an innocent time in life, not thinking that something so horrible was even possible.

JMO

 

[sleepysleuth]

Agree completely. The question: is he a student? My gut feeling is saying no, but anything is possible.

If it's a random perp, I would think not.

According to this article by Business Insider, the average age of a male serial killer's first kill is 27.5, which seems right to me. Ted Bundy's first confirmed murder was when he was 27, Dennis Rader (BTK) killed his first victim at age 29, Gary Ridgway killed his first victim at age 33, John Wayne Gacy was 30 - Jeffrey Dahmer was an outlier as he killed his first victim at age 18.

Just based on the average age, I would suspect if this was a random thrill kill, the killer would be above college age. Of course, stranger things have happened and I don't think age alone should exclude anyone from being a potential suspect.

All JMO/IMO

 

[SuziQ]

If it wasn't unlocked when the killer(s) gained access and the door was not broken into, that would mean someone opened the door for the killer(s).

There is red tape on the door frame near where the latch would be. What that means idk. Didn't the Chief did say no forced entry? Imo.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This is the scenario that I’ve been assuming the whole time. The two girls are killed while asleep (either on the first or third floors—this is unclear), then Ethan hears something and gets up to check. He’s attacked, then Xana is. They weren’t supposed to be killed, but the SP couldn’t leave witnesses. JMO.

This has been my leaning as well.
Unless, a stalker. Then, s/he/they knew what s/he/they were getting in to.

 

[mrsdue]

While not a mansion, the crime scene home is spacious. However, it's reasonable to assume that such violent murders would be heard by other occupants. However during my college years (a long time ago) it was common to turn up one's stereo or radio to drown out unwanted noise from housemates. Headphones worked well but I never slept with them on. Today, earbuds are common. Is it plausible that one would sleep with earbuds in? I would think it is.

My kids sleeps with their airpods in all the time and they sleep heavy. One of my biggest fears is a fire in the house and them not waking up to the fire alarm, so I definitely think this is a possibility, especially if they were on different floors. MOO, I think whatever happened Kaylee and Madison were the target and Ethan and Xana did hear something, Ethan got up to investigate and he was then injured. Xana, already on alert, possibly tried to intervene or just in shock was then also injured.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Thank you for this detailed information.
I too have wondered if he slipped in masked, dressed in PPE and whoever first encountered him thought it was a joke of some sort and that’s how he was able to disorient them as he gave orders or simply stabbed one, possibly Ethan, before the torture began. As a couple in one room or possibly awake, perhaps they were the first victims.
The Botanical Garden and adjoining area by the house looks fairly extensive. Do we have a local member who could fill us in on that terrain? Is it dense vegetation or have bike paths? Is there a pond or lake where PPE could be disposed of?
I am so sorry for the families of the precious young victims. The cruelty is unfathomable.

Were they tortured before being killed . Did LE find some evidence that the perp was in PPE that I missed?

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Did the autopsy report come back with anyone sexually assaulted? TIA

 

[CocoChanel]

ADMIN NOTE:
There can be no generalized discussion about mental health/mental illness because it is too broad a subject that WS does not allow. Please so not engage in that line of posting. Please DO NOT ignore this instruction. Stick to the FACTS of this case. Going forward, please Report posts that do not stick to the facts of this

 

[huskyvandal]

Thank you for this detailed information.
I too have wondered if he slipped in masked, dressed in PPE and whoever first encountered him thought it was a joke of some sort and that’s how he was able to disorient them as he gave orders or simply stabbed one, possibly Ethan, before the torture began. As a couple in one room or possibly awake, perhaps they were the first victims.
The Botanical Garden and adjoining area by the house looks fairly extensive. Do we have a local member who could fill us in on that terrain? Is it dense vegetation or have bike paths? Is there a pond or lake where PPE could be disposed of?
I am so sorry for the families of the precious young victims. The cruelty is unfathomable.

There is not dense vegetation near this house. It is surrounded by other converted houses and apartments buildings, pretty much all of it is off campus housing for students. The campus itself is very close though. If you look at Google street view you can get a feel for it. The main road, Taylor, that Queen and King are off of, runs along the back of Greek row, including Sigma Chi, the male victim's fraternity house. The arboretum is about a half a mile away.

I lived on Taylor as a UI student. I knew so many people who lived within about a half a block. There was always so much activity in this area.

 

[r3d-ros3]

Were they tortured before being killed . Did LE find some evidence that the perp was in PPE that I missed?

No - a theory posted by someone on the thread.

 

[MuddyTires]

Total guesswork alert.

Nearly all of the theories about the killer(s) and motive(s) in this thread are either total guesswork. Those that aren't are intended to fit a narrative.