ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow #3

[flippyflappy]

Random thought and not sure if it's been mentioned... I wonder if K and M were in the same bed when this all went down. As a college kid, my girlfriends and I often would sit together and re-cap the night. That kind of makes the repeated calls to J seem more reasonable. Either maybe trying to get a hold of him to tell him some story about their night, ask a question, etc.

With the tight timeline of still maing calls at almost 3 and estimated time of death, I'm not sure they would be sleeping yet.

 

[Arkay]

can I remember an American multiple murder that (a) wasn’t DV and (b) wasn’t mass random shooting and (c) wasn’t sexually motivated? I can’t, personally. This meets a and b. My opinion is that it likely violates c.

I would venture to include an additional category, which would be (d), mass shooting that is NOT random. This would typically be perpetrated by someone nursing a grudge; someone who felt they were bullied, mistreated, overlooked or misunderstood, at work or at school.

Hence, school shootings and workplace retaliation, what we used to deem "going postal."

Not DV, not sexually motivated, not random but still a mass shooting.

In my estimation, the motive here could slide between your category (c), and this category of retaliation and revenge for perceived slights, which percolate into a murderous rage against the targeted "oppressor."

Jmo

 

[uburoi1]

I think people are way over thinking the knife. It takes no skill to stab four people with a knife like this, just brute strength and no conscience. Field dressing animals, butchering, etc. is precise. Also, these types of knives are very common and can be purchased anywhere from online to your local sporting goods store or pawn shop. I believe the two sadistic teens who killed Cassie Jo Stoddart in what they dubbed The Scream Murders had an older friend purchase similar knives from a pawn shop to commit their crime.

I definitely agree with the brute strength/no conscience. Field dressing and butchering are precise because one's targets are inert; not necessarily so four humans, in bed at the time or not.

I would be at least mildly surprised if the killings did not involve methamphetamines.

 

[KonaHonu]

2. I think Kaylee and Madison were the targets or maybe all four of them, but one thing I noticed about Xana, which no one else seems to have mentioned as far as I’ve seen, is that her father said something like she was doing so much better this year because of Ethan. It made it sound like there was trouble before this year, maybe a toxic relationship?

That's always possible but her mother also made a comment about her getting to experience what it was like to have a live in boyfriend (even though we know he lived at the Sigma Chi house). They had also been together for about a year. I think we would have heard by now if an ex had been giving her trouble.

 

[Stratford258]

Snipped. While we cannot discuss third parties, if you take a look at Kaylee's instagram and find photos with a guy, the comments may help with who the guy mentioned by Kaylee's sister is

Thank you for snipping and my apologies for violating a TOS.

This just has to be devastating beyond words for everyone who knew them, especially "J" and their families.

 

[fridaybaker]

I think these girls are smart and savvy enough that if they thought there was a real danger in the house at 2:30am, they would have called 911 and not a boyfriend. I think instead after a big night out K wanted to call her boyfriend. When he didn't answer, she asked her friend to call him to see if he was ignoring her. So M called him too. They may at that point have decided to just go to bed not knowing what was about to happen.

This exact scene plays out among 18-25 year old women every night. I confess to having been the desperate dialer, the reassuring best friend, and even the recipient at various points in college and young adulthood. I don't see any other reason why anyone would call him over an extended period of time. They would have had plenty of time to call 911 even to do a hang-up triggering a welfare check during the first minute if they knew something was wrong.

Unfortunately it leads me to think they were ambushed after 3am.

I can agree with this, but to play devil’s advocate, I’ve been in situations where I was pretty afraid-enough to call someone- but couldn’t bring myself to call 911. “What if it’s nothing.” “I’m probably imagining it”. etc.

 

[acutename]

I don't have much to add, aside from IMO the room mates have absolutely 0 to do with this. Judging from SM, all girls were extremely close. I think it's unfair of LE to make it seem like they might be suspects. But that's just my opinion.

Mostly I'm just mad that this happened to these kids. I just read Ethan's obituary. Everything I've seen on SM and everything I've read about these kids just makes them sound like fantastic young people. Just good humans. Your typical college kids enjoying their early 20s. I hate that this happened to them.

It's so hard to watch the video of Kaylee and Madison knowing what was about to happen. They just seem like sweet college girls living their lives and having a good time. It makes me so sad that someone could completely ruin so many lives like that. It's just senseless. I hope they catch the perp ASAP. It's so heartbreaking. I really can't get them out of of my mind. It's just a tragic situation.

so, is the killer reading/watching the news and feeling special or is the killer back to some mundane existence- doing a job, feeding kids, or is the killer nervous and feeling the heat?

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

What is most interesting to me about this case is the intricacy of the timing. The coming and going of 6 people (plus killer(s) and who knows who else). Other posters have mentioned the scant/incomplete timeline put out by LE so it seems they might still be puzzling it out. As far as I know we haven't heard whether the surviving roommates were awake or asleep (or even home) when K and M returned home. What were the interactions of all 6 residents in the time leading up to the murders? So many questions..

 

[Stratford258]

If they were awake to make those phone calls at 2:44 and 2:56 a.m., it seems likely they wouldn't be asleep at 3 a.m., though possibly by 4 a.m.

Just adding that thought. We need a comprehensive timeline that accounts for the phone calls K and M made.

 

[tokyorose]

Could this possibly indicate that they have audio that could include a suspect's name?

Do we know if the 911 call made around noon is the only 911 call that was made from the residence?

Could there have been other calls, including to 911, made from any of the victims' phones that just haven't been mentioned to media because it's an ongoing investigation?

If K and M were making multiple calls to Jack that quickly from their phones that close to the time that LE has indicated was the time of death, it's possible one or both of them also called 911. These were people who were quick with their phones.

The question then becomes if they called 911 then why didn't the police show up then? Where I live if you contact 911 if they don't establish your wellbeing immediately cops are paying you a visit.

 

[late1]

That's always possible but her mother also made a comment about her getting to experience what it was like to have a live in boyfriend (even though we know he lived at the Sigma Chi house). They had also been together for about a year. I think we would have heard by now if an ex had been giving her trouble.

I read it the same way, her parents were proud she had matured as an adult, lived more experiences, etc.

 

[Manwel]

Hi all, first post here. This case has been taking up my thoughts all week and especially today. Been reading all of the posts here and just so perplexed and heartbroken by everything about this case. I haven’t been this intensely following an investigation since the Hannah Graham case. Everything from the victims’ social media to the layout of the house has fascinated me. I go back and forth between thinking this was someone who knew them and someone who randomly saw an opportunity. I really hope they find out who did this to these sweet kids very soon.

Welcome!

And yes, the longer this investigation takes, the more I lean toward Stranger Crime. Day 1 I figured it would be someone's ex-boyfriend. But I also figured that kind of criminal would be caught easily. The longer this takes, and as more evidence gets revealed, the more it seems like someone who knew what they were doing and didn't just do this on a dime.

 

[AgithaBoots]

Hello i am new, and with the information that both girls were frantically calling a person after arriving home leads me to believe that someone was after that person using them to get to him. Some reports say that some of the stab wounds could have been torturous? ( like call him or you will pay) . And i think the couple could have already been killed before they got home ( call to family said they were home 12 pm and hanging out - not confirmed source) so girls get home to horror show and sadly 4 beautiful lives are lost - my thoughts so sad

 

[whiskers]

I think people are way over thinking the knife. It takes no skill to stab four people with a knife like this, just brute strength and no conscience. Field dressing animals, butchering, etc. is precise. Also, these types of knives are very common and can be purchased anywhere from online to your local sporting goods store or pawn shop. I believe the two sadistic teens who killed Cassie Jo Stoddart in what they dubbed The Scream Murders had an older friend purchase similar knives from a pawn shop to commit their crime.

To me it’s a link. A young man in my area was murdered at Panther Fall’s VA. Outside of a small town. His story is sadly on here. His body was removed from area for several months and then returned with severed wrists and ankles. It’s one thing to stab one person, it’s another to stab 4. Multiple stabbings happen in the US, but it’s also unusual for it to go beyond 1 person.

 

[nocturnes]

I would venture to include an additional category, which would be (d), mass shooting that is NOT random. This would typically be perpetrated by someone nursing a grudge; someone who felt they were bullied, mistreated, overlooked or misunderstood, at work or at school.

Hence, school shootings and workplace retaliation, what we used to deem "going postal."

Not DV, not sexually motivated, not random but still a mass shooting.

In my estimation, the motive here could slide between your category (c), and this category of retaliation and revenge for perceived slights, which percolate into a murderous rage against the targeted "oppressor."

Jmo

The coroner said yesterday that the autopsies showed no signs of sexual assaults

 

[KonaHonu]

Random thought and not sure if it's been mentioned... I wonder if K and M were in the same bed when this all went down. As a college kid, my girlfriends and I often would sit together and re-cap the night. That kind of makes the repeated calls to J seem more reasonable. Either maybe trying to get a hold of him to tell him some story about their night, ask a question, etc.

With the tight timeline of still maing calls at almost 3 and estimated time of death, I'm not sure they would be sleeping yet.

I've been kind of wondering this as well. Making no judgement or even any implication. I could seee them sitting on someones bed eating their pasta and chatting. That would also explain the calls to J. If they were sleeping in the same bed it would make me wonder how one could be stabbed first without the other waking up and screaming.

 

[Karin1974]

Calling someone's number several times in quick succession is what I do when a friend tells me they've lost their phone in my vicinity/home.

We'd need to know the length of the calls to determine if this may be the scenario that led to 6 calls to the same number early in the morning.

Maybe the owner of the "lost" phone was at the house earlier, and returned in the early morning hours to retrieve it... Or not, IMO

My mind goes to just redialling the last number called for help, as may be incapacitated to do anything else

 

[Erutan]

I too am feeling this was stranger on stranger. I’m curious if you think it was totally random, as in some nutjob just came out of the woods and picked the first house with an unlocked door? Or do you think he had an idea of who would be inside (young females opposed to a bunch of frat guys)? Do you think he spent time watching from the wooded area? It seems to be motive was purely murder, perhaps he just picked a college area figuring he wouldn’t encounter armed homeowners?

bbm
I'd imagine some students ARE armed ?

My guess is that he/she cased the place (to use an archaic phrase) for a bit and didn't just walk in w/o knowing who slept where or if they had a loud dog or a weapon ?
I'm curious if it barked much or very little ?
If there were parties there at the house, the dog may have been used to whomever stopping by, and so didn't perceive the killer as a threat ?
The killer(s) had to know the layout enough to attack sleeping people.

But again Ted Bundy entered residences of which he knew nothing about except that there were students there ?
My mind is flip flopping all over the place on this one.

Normally I'll just follow LE's lead, but they seem to have been in contradiction of each other ?
Unless I'm reading this wrong , and someone pointed out that some articles have been updated.
Sorry for everyone who is innocent and badly affected by this horrific crime.
M00.

 

[Levon]

I don't believe those girls are the ones that placed those calls.

Whoa

 

[Stratford258]

I STRONGLY disagree with this analysis.

Brute strength is required, as is lack of conscience, for sure.

But I imagine this also requiring a considerable amount of skill to definitively kill 4 people with a knife.

How many times have you tried to do something (for which you lacked skill) 4 times and failed at least one of those times?