ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 34

[ACG2x]

LE did not release the videos. To my knowledge, they have not released any videos. The grub truck video was a publicly available twitch stream, and the "Adam" video was released by the camera's owner to Facebook then to Fox news. I agree that the videos don't really provide much.

Edit - LE did release the body cam videos, but it was due to FOIA requests, not because they thought it would provide helpful info for this case. IMO

Totally agree on the body cam videos. If there were videos that existed that showed anything of substance, they are either being held by LE at the moment or they would have gone to court to suppress public release of them for now to not jeopardize the investigation. The videos so far are fun for internet sleuths to pick apart and speculate on, but as far as substantialness to the actual investigation - agree it's pretty meh.

 

[z0mer]

What I don't understand is that the police hasn't published more images. We know that the camera on Taylor Rd spotted a car around 03:00, but not one going back (as far the police has announced). That would suggest he went left to Walenta Drive and there are quite a few houses, the car must have been spotted even with a door bell camera.

 

[nisco]

"Sometimes people can be part of a whole that transcends themselves as individuals."

Leaving the fake mysticism aside....

The possible rage vendetta against all four might be better understood by looking at the motive from the perspective of having a vendetta against "the house". Another poster (wish I could give credit by name) raised this possible motive where "the house" is targeted:

- Victims live in a "party house" and host alot of informal social gatherings and full on parties.

- Somebody is then "uninvited" from a social gathering as he makes one of the females residents, or another female guest uncomfortable.

- This is extremely humiliating for him. Perhaps he viewed his expected welcomed presence to be his opportunity to connect with attractive, socially confident women with out being rejected- again. Perhaps his ego expects to be welcomed everywhere by all.

- Rage builds. Maybe it was a house resident who wanted him gone, maybe it was a house resident (male) who booted him out. Or, maybe a guest was uncomfortable, but.... a resident or two of the house affirmed his kick out.

But in the end, it was the gathering / party that stood against him. And, that the focal point of the gathering / party is The House- even if not all the residents were present at his humiliation. He then attacks the home wanting to harm say, one resident in particular, but also wants to harm the house as a whole.

I'm thinking along similar lines as you. Good post.

 

[ACG2x]

i almost never ask for links, especially for known knowns, but when did the grub truck guy say she seemed intoxicated?

I'll just have to leave it that intoxicated, to me, means something on an entirely different scale.

There are a few other places where this is noted but it's indicated here - the girls, who staff said seemed slightly intoxicated...

I think the term that's most commonly used is 'tipsy' which is based on video and how they were described what I'd consider them.

 

[accordn2me]

Think in practical terms. Who can the owner sue?
The killer? You can sue anyone but the killer probably won't have any assets.

That’s an interesting perspective that I never would’ve considered- the property owner having a cause of action….

I think the property owner might he able to make an insurance claim. That’s the angle I was initially thinking of in my OP.

After the first reply, I considered that the victim’s families and the two surviving tenants might have a cause of action against the property owner.

As you mention, the killer probably won’t have substantial assets currently, but if eventually caught, they could be sued so that they don’t profit off the crime (books, movies, etc.)

 

[PrairieWind]

What I don't understand is that the police hasn't published more images. We know that the camera on Taylor Rd spotted a car around 03:00, but not one going back (as far the police has announced). That would suggest he went left to Walenta Drive and there are quite a few houses, the car must have been spotted even with a door bell camera.

I don't think publishing photos would help. They have explained what type of car they are looking for.

 

[warbuckle]

I’ve been watching the food truck video over and over and something it me last night. Maddie is wearing a man’s coat. Someone let her borrow it, presumably. It’s plausible that is was JS (hoodie guy) and maybe that is why when her and Kaylee took off with their food for the Uber he followed. Like ummm hello you have my jacket. This also may not be hoodie guys coat could’ve been someone else that evening perhaps lent it to her but the burning question I have for investigators is did they find that coat at Maddie’s residence or was it missing? I’m not purposing that someone would murder anyone over a coat but it might be evidence as to whether someone came to the house later that evening to retrieve it.

 

[Counttrarian]

Interesting to note, 1+ month in and we (as in the public), do not know of motive, precise means of entry, intended target/s, or likely suspects. Hopefully LE has much more information related to the aforementioned or it seems like it will take a lucky break to solve this crime.

 

[Tillyjames]

I wonder about the whole "intoxicated" line of thought. I watched the grub truck video, and the latest one. I just don't see them as " intoxicated". Having fun, laughing, just like everyone else.

Intoxicated, to me, means falling down, slurred speech, inability to count money and pay for a meal, not looking for a secure ride home.

I don't buy it, from what has been posted on this board.

They were drinking in a bar, they walked several blocks with a male friend in the cold to get food, stood around at the grub truck for quite awhile, interacted with the other kids, got a secure ride home, presumably ate their meal. Where do we see the intoxication?

They were drinking. Intoxication does not mean those things you listed. It CAN but most intoxicated people can still function and do things like pay for a meal

 

[acutename]

I have been asking myself about the killer: Is s/he proud of this? Amused by the news coverage? I sometimes think these people almost go into a fugue state and do not 100% recall what they did, IMO (have no professional psych experience)
and see what they did almost as if it was another person.

 

[nisco]

i almost never ask for links, especially for known knowns, but when did the grub truck guy say she seemed intoxicated?

I'll just have to leave it that intoxicated, to me, means something on an entirely different scale.

I think of intoxication as a much lower threshold, similar to the poster you quoted. Take a look at the following link. I'm not saying your understanding is wrong by the way.

driving while intoxicated

www.law.cornell.edu

From the link...

"For example, in New York, for a driver to be charged with Driving While Intoxicated (DWI), a .08 Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) or higher or other evidence of intoxication is needed. For drivers of commercial motor vehicles, a .04 BAC or other evidence of intoxication is needed."

 

[Normamsmiley]

I could be very wrong, but I'm concerned about LE focusing so intently on this mythical Elantra. What could they have that would lead them down this road? Video of it going in and out around the time of the murders? Even if it was the only such vehicle and they have definitive proof it is an Elantra, it proves nothing without a vital tip from the public. If they have a list of suspects, and one or more of them have a possible motive, uncorroborated alibi, and access to an Elantra, I believe someone would be in custody by now. Imvho, they have very little other than video footage from the neighborhood to lead them to a suspect. I expect there has to be some sort of physical evidence from the scene, but until they have someone with whom they can compare that evidence, they are stuck. Someone needs to come forward to break this open.

I believe that the way LE has framed up the ask on the Elantra means that they believe the killer is local and someone they potentially knew. The continue to ask the community for assistance in letting them know anyone that may have had access to the car the day before or after. It’s not just “did you see a white Hyundai Elantra?” It’s more like let us know about your Elantra, or anyone that drove one around that time. That leads me to believe that they have a suspect and they are trying to put him at the scene. It’s my opinion, they have very good video evidence that puts the car at the scene, and they need to put the driver(s) at the scene as well but cannot confirm based on the video evidence (wearing a mask,bad angle, etc)

 

[ACG2x]

To be fair, when Kaylee gives her order to the Grub Truck guy, she does slur her words saying "I'll have the...carbonarrrra". There's a noticeable pause between the words and she slurs the long 'r' in carbonara. The Grub Truck guy even said she seemed intoxicated.

Now given how they were acting in the rest of the video, I don't think they were falling down drunk, but were definitely under the influence of alcohol. But part of this could just be in nomenclature because I consider anyone who is not OK to drive a vehicle intoxicated in a legal sense. If she was falling down hammered, then I'd see the other things you noted.

So intoxicated = yes. Falling down hammered drunk = no, probably not.

The full video with sound is here. MM/KG first approach the truck around the 6:24 mark. Things I noticed to believe they were at least slightly intoxicated:

• MM (in orange/red shirt, hair in ponytail and black jacket) has a blank stare several times and can't stand still. Seems to be swaying trying to stand in place.
• Around the 6:30 mark, KG begins to order. She looks at the menu and seems to be having trouble reading it clearly then says "I'll have..." and after a decently long pause finishes "...the carrrr-banara". I mistook the syllable she slurred in the first post.
• While KG is telling the Grub Truck guy she has rewards points, MM wanders off and gives a guy a hug then seems to stumble a bit walking back to where KG is.
• There is a clear view of MM around the 7:04 mark and watching for a few seconds, her head is swaying and as she walks her shoulders sway as well. While she can still stand and knows where she is, this is not normal motion and is a walk I've seen before in friends who have had multiple drinks.
• Around the 7:15 mark, KG slurs again repeating "the carrr-banara".
• From 7:20 to 7:30, MM continues swaying next to KG.

So again, while I don't think either of them were stumble down drunk, I highly doubt either was in any shape to operate a motor vehicle and were likely legally intoxicated at the time.

Edit: This is important to me because it signifies that KG may have fallen asleep with her fitness watch on and could also speak to both girls inability to react quickly enough when their killer came up the stairs. On the third floor as they were and in this type of state, they were essentially cornered and had no chance.

 

[acutename]

Possibly. But if that were the case, it would likely mean that the second set of victims disturbed him in the act and were trying to save the others. That would likely result in the bodies being found in close proximity, but that wasn't the case - the two sets of victims were killed in different rooms, possibly while they slept.

I am surprised that the killer did not run as soon as s/he enccountered any difficulty, so either did not really encounter a difficulty or really wanted to kill more people. IMO.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Interesting to note, 1+ month in and we (as in the public), do not know of motive, precise means of entry, intended target/s, or likely suspects. Hopefully LE has much more information related to the aforementioned or it seems like it will take a lucky break to solve this crime.

We're also pretty clueless on two of the victim's (E/X) timeline on top; per official report:

"Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred."
--
"Detectives are also seeking additional tips and surveillance video of any unusual behavior on the night of November 12th into the early hours of November 13th while Kaylee and Madison were in downtown Moscow and while Ethan and Xana were at the Sigma Chi house. Anyone who observed unusual behavior near these areas or has video surveillance is asked to submit their tips."

 

[Mossyrock]

I still think it could be possible that he came to murder one, and was surprised to encounter one more, and then another two. Adrenaline took over, because it was do or die.

I think your onto something here. Also it speaks volumes to me that the dog didn’t make a fuss. It’s not a a tiny dog either or an elderly dog who may have hearing or sight issues. Another thing I also feel matters is K and M’s close circle, what they did for extra curricular activities. Where they are originally from, hunting is popular, sports as well. K’s ex boyfriend was a skilled tennis player. Just in my own humble opinion. There are many pieces to find but I feel like your onto something. IMO so is LE. They are so close. So so close. I feel like the net they cast out is cinching shut. And especially over the holidays, they are doing the work that will bring a slice of peace, if but small to the community and these families. I just hope they get to whoever did this before that person gets to themselves like Brian Laundrie did.

 

[whowy]

I could be very wrong, but I'm concerned about LE focusing so intently on this mythical Elantra. What could they have that would lead them down this road? Video of it going in and out around the time of the murders? Even if it was the only such vehicle and they have definitive proof it is an Elantra, it proves nothing without a vital tip from the public. If they have a list of suspects, and one or more of them have a possible motive, uncorroborated alibi, and access to an Elantra, I believe someone would be in custody by now. Imvho, they have very little other than video footage from the neighborhood to lead them to a suspect. I expect there has to be some sort of physical evidence from the scene, but until they have someone with whom they can compare that evidence, they are stuck. Someone needs to come forward to break this open.

Haven't some vehicle owners equipped their cars with dashboard cams? Haven't done that myself but am curious how long the captured video is usually retained. Apart from doorbell cams, LE may have been contacting every owner of a vehicle seen in any video during relevant times to determine whether dashboard cam was present & active. More puzzle pieces...

 

[CSIDreamer]

We're also pretty clueless on two of the victim's (E/X) timeline on top; per official report:

"Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive. Any interactions, contacts, direction and method of travel, or anything abnormal could add context to what occurred."
--
"Detectives are also seeking additional tips and surveillance video of any unusual behavior on the night of November 12th into the early hours of November 13th while Kaylee and Madison were in downtown Moscow and while Ethan and Xana were at the Sigma Chi house. Anyone who observed unusual behavior near these areas or has video surveillance is asked to submit their tips."

Speaking of timelines, is there actually a timeline for K & M? What time did they get to the bar? What did they do before that? To the best of my knowledge, we have K & M's timeline pretty firm from maybe 1 a.m. or so since I'm not recalling time specific info about the bar. JMO

 

[acutename]

Ive followed all the threads from day one.. my hypothesis hasn’t changed from #18
The house layout
No sign of breakin
The Dog not barking
Four young people stabbed with a fix blade knife
The perp was quiet, knew his way around the house, killed quickly, left without a trace… Possibly in a white car and he managed to avoid cameras out of town
The perp was physically strong, focused and efficient..IMO..he has SAS or military training, it wasn’t personal, he had a job to do and he did it…. I’m going with a ‘hit job’ someone did it for money or because they owed someone else….

accepting what you say, who would benefit enough financially to pay some one to kill these 4? tough to imagine IMO

 

[scottishgal]

I cant believe the killer has not yet given himself/herself up ...how do you go about sleeping and eating after snuffing out four young lives ? Hope they send out an anonymous message at least to media to explain why, not that anything could explain why, but from their perspective. Surely every human has a soul. How.