ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 39

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IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT CHRIS MCDONOUGH AND THE INTERVIEW ROOM

Nothing that Chris M says is allowed on this forum unless it is backed up by law enforcement.

Chris has personally lied to me. He accused an innocent man of being Brian Laundry. He lied about being removed from the Crow lawsuit. He was removed but then put back in the lawsuit and lost. Chris told me he was removed from the lawsuit and was not sued. He never told me he was added back into the lawsuit and lost. Chris was sued for getting a false confession in the murder of Stephanie Crow.
I could go on but suffice it to say anything he says is not allowed. Even if it is in mainstream media.

Again only if what he said is backed up by an actual law enforcement source.

Here is the documentation on the Crow lawsuit
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Ruling from 2010 which overrules Dougie's decision from 2004.

Retired judge slams Crowe case


"A federal trial judge in San Diego dismissed the bulk of the civil rights suit in 2004. But six years later, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals revived the lawsuit, finding that Escondido police violated the civil rights of Crowe and his friends during “hours of grueling, psychologically abusive interrogations.”

The above links come from a great YouTube creator called Scientific Skeptic. If you go to this video there are more links describing the interrogation tools used by Chris and others in the Crow case,

Because Chris mistakenly named the wrong man on my YouTube channel and never told me to take down the false information I made this apology video when I discovered what happened,
Here is the apology video I had to make because of what Chris said on my Livestream.

The glove that Chris found was not there on the day of the Moscow Idaho murders

The MOB Crew has a great video showing the ground the day of the killing where the glove was found later in the month. On that day the glove was not there. Go to @2:35 of this video

I am not suggesting Chris did not legitimately find the glove. Just showing you it has nothing to do with the case. I will be shocked if Chris updates the story about the glove.

For those of you who know me this is an extremely unusual step for me to take. This is how strongly I feel. I was lied to but more importantly, because of Chris' actions, people's lives were threatened in the Summer Wells case.

Please do not discuss this post on this thread. If you have any questions please email me at websleuthsvideos@gmail.com

Tricia
 
The thread will reopen in about an hour to give members time to read the following and "Like" the post to indicate you have read and understood.

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Sleuthing or encouraging sleuthing individuals who are not officially named POIs and are not suspects at this time

Generalized bashing of or attempts to discredit LE or make insinuations/accusations about them when members have no knowledge of what LE has or has not done, what they know or do not know

Insinuations about a potential attempt at cover-up by the U of I is not based on any known fact, is wild speculation and is off limits

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Once again, a reminder to "Like" this post to indicate you have read and understood the above.

Thanks everyone.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator
 
ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

The Report feature is for members to alert us to violations of Websleuths Terms of Service, not to have us fact-checking all the minute details of every single case. WS has hundreds of alerts that our very few volunteer staff have to stick-handle every single day. We can not possibly know all the minute details of every case, and we do not have time to correct misinformation that may crop up in the various threads.

While rumors are a violation of TOS, simple misinformation or a misstatement of fact is not. If misinformation creeps into the thread, please just correct it on the thread through respectful discussion, supported by links to the correct details.

Also a reminder that, as part of victimology, discussion of KNOWN victim behavior as fact is fine as long as it isn’t accompanied with judgmental commentary or negative connotation or negative speculation that constitutes victim shaming or blaming (i.e. drugs or other illegal activity is not a KNOWN and is not allowed).

And please forego the virtue signalling. The discussion isn’t about us or our own perfect values.

Thanks !!
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Folks, it is only member speculation that these killings could be the work of a serial killer.

Please leave Bundy and the rest of that mottley crew out of this discussion until/unless LE indicates there could be a SK at work here.

Thank you.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

The "public's right to know" discussion has derailed this thread for pages now. That is a social justice issue (which will never be solved via discussion at Websleuths) ... when the actual topic of this discussion is the tragic killing of 4 young adults.

Move on to discuss the actual case.

Thank you.
 
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If you aren't sure if a source is approved, please seek approval before discussing any of the content. It makes thread cleanup so much more difficult and time-consuming when Mods have to go through pages and pages of posts to remove the OP and all the responses, and responses to those responses, etc.

Just as an example, yesterday out of many, many pages of Reports, just 2 pages alone were 40 Reports with 38 of them relating to this discussion alone. Mods are swamped with this discussion. Please don't make things more difficult for them.

Thank you.

ETA: Also, please move on from the discussion as to whether E was or was not drunk as there is nothing to substantiate either way. It is speculation that is not based on any known fact, and is not victim friendly. As per TOS:

"Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case."

The qualifying word in the above is "known".
 
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Welcome to all our new members who have joined the discussion. We were all new once and it takes a while to learn all the ins and outs, become familiar with our Terms of Service, and generally how Websleuths rolls. We are not your average run-of-the-mill type of site where anything goes.

We want our new members to feel welcome, so if you have an issue please don't hesitate to contact a Mod or Admin by Reporting an offensive or inflammatory post (Report button at the bottom of each post). Just Report and let our Moderators or Administrators review the issue and deal with it rather than responding on the thread.

Glad you are here to contribute. If you have questions about our rules, just ask by using use the Report feature to jump off any post, and we will do our best to answer them for you.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

Move on from the psychopathy discussion please. It is off topic speculation not based on any known fact. None of us even knows who this person is, let alone be in a position to diagnose them.

Thank you.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

We've been asked as to whether we will allow the leaked image of the girls talking with the individual at the Corner Club before they left for the Grub Truck. Half the true crime sleuthing world has probably seen the leaked image by now, so it is allowed for reasonable discussion.

Just because the girls are talking to one of many individuals in a popular public venue does not make that person a POI or suspect. This person could be totally innocent and, as they have not been officially named POI or suspect, we won't allow him to be publicly sleuthed or dragged through the mud with direct or indirect accusations. Members can sleuth away all they like behind the scenes, in private or in group conversation with other members, but NO public sleuthing of that person, attempts to publicly name or identify name him or post any personal or identifying information.

Post respectfully and responsibly. Any questions, jump off any post to Report and ask your question.

Thanks !!
 
Don't know if this has been brought up already but hopefully it is okay to discuss. If not, mods please delete.

My initial impression is that it likely wasn't anyone from the bar who leaked the still image from the Corner Club to Fox News. Those recordings were probably seized by law enforcement, and I imagine weren't copied by the owner prior to that. If that's the case, what would be the purpose of law enforcement leaking the still? And please, it isn't because of the ex boyfriend. Whether that's him or not him in the photo, he has been ruled out.

Thoughts?

My opinion.
 
Don't know if this has been brought up already but hopefully it is okay to discuss. If not, mods please delete.

My initial impression is that it likely wasn't anyone from the bar who leaked the still image from the Corner Club to Fox News. Those recordings were probably seized by law enforcement, and I imagine weren't copied by the owner prior to that. If that's the case, what would be the purpose of law enforcement leaking the still? And please, it isn't because of the ex boyfriend. Whether that's him or not him in the photo, he has been ruled out.

Thoughts?

My opinion.
If LE did indeed leak the photo, it’s to apply subliminal pressure in my opinion. To whomever it concerns or doesn’t…this could instill a little bit of heightened anxiety in someone who knows something or did something. LE knows deeper than we all do, so hand in hand with the FBI, in my opinion this is part of their bigger plan.
 
Don't know if this has been brought up already but hopefully it is okay to discuss. If not, mods please delete.

My initial impression is that it likely wasn't anyone from the bar who leaked the still image from the Corner Club to Fox News. Those recordings were probably seized by law enforcement, and I imagine weren't copied by the owner prior to that. If that's the case, what would be the purpose of law enforcement leaking the still? And please, it isn't because of the ex boyfriend. Whether that's him or not him in the photo, he has been ruled out.

Thoughts?

My opinion.
Since we can now discuss that picture, <modsnip: attempting to ID persons in photo>

I think the leaking of this still shot neither advances nor retards the progress of the investigation.

Just more fodder for idle speculation. JMO JMO JMO
 
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Don't know if this has been brought up already but hopefully it is okay to discuss. If not, mods please delete.

My initial impression is that it likely wasn't anyone from the bar who leaked the still image from the Corner Club to Fox News. Those recordings were probably seized by law enforcement, and I imagine weren't copied by the owner prior to that. If that's the case, what would be the purpose of law enforcement leaking the still? And please, it isn't because of the ex boyfriend. Whether that's him or not him in the photo, he has been ruled out.

Thoughts?

My opinion.
My thoughts are somewhat different than yours. Whereas you believe LE probably seized the recordings, and the Corner Club didn't copy them prior to that, my thoughts are that LE copied the recordings at the Corner Club, and they never actually left the possession of the bar owner. I do not believe that LE released the still into the public. As to why someone else did, my guess would be the obvious answer, and that is that someone wanted us to see someone who was at the club that night. JMO
 
Don't know if this has been brought up already but hopefully it is okay to discuss. If not, mods please delete.

My initial impression is that it likely wasn't anyone from the bar who leaked the still image from the Corner Club to Fox News. Those recordings were probably seized by law enforcement, and I imagine weren't copied by the owner prior to that. If that's the case, what would be the purpose of law enforcement leaking the still? And please, it isn't because of the ex boyfriend. Whether that's him or not him in the photo, he has been ruled out.

Thoughts?

My opinion.
I believe most security 'tapes' nowadays are digital files stored on a device or in the cloud. In another case I followed, LE just downloaded copies of the files, so the original owners still retained them. If this was the case with the CC footage, the employees could possibly still view and take photos of the footage, and also leak it. MOO
 
My thoughts are somewhat different than yours. Whereas you believe LE probably seized the recordings, and the Corner Club didn't copy them prior to that, my thoughts are that LE copied the recordings at the Corner Club, and they never actually left the possession of the bar owner. I do not believe that LE released the still into the public. As to why someone else did, my guess would be the obvious answer, and that is that someone wanted us to see someone who was at the club that night. JMO

But a warrant would permit them to seize it and prevent copies from being made or used, and I imagine a warrant was issued for chain of custody reasons (even if the owner was fully cooperating - which my understanding is he has been). If the recording was backed up prior to any warrant, perhaps it could be as you suggest, but that would be foolish for a variety of reasons.

Indeed, it makes more sense for law enforcement to leak it rather than the club owner. The latter would've almost certainly been admonished not to share information relating to the investigation or charges could be brought. That's standard protocol. And law enforcement could pressure the media for its source if the leak was germane and potentially obstructing justice.

My opinion.
 
@fastoys in the last thread, you mentioned Sand road and heading NW.
There are no cameras on the ID or WA portion.

Idaho 511 Travel Information


one of my previous posts has more map info in it, but these links will get you to all of the road cameras.

If I were charting this killer's route, I'd have parked at the arboretum, walked in the dark, done what I came to do, gone back to arboretum, taken my car, and headed out on Palouse NW which turns into Sandy, and with 8 hours lead time, I'd have plenty of time to get cleaned up, dump the borrowed white car near Pullman, grab my real ride, and head out with WSU football fans leaving from the weekend visit. That's all obvs JMO IMO

My other option would have been Troy area and the Latah trail.
 
I believe most security 'tapes' nowadays are digital files stored on a device or in the cloud. In another case I followed, LE just downloaded copies of the files, so the original owners still retained them. If this was the case with the CC footage, the employees could possibly still view and take photos of the footage, and also leak it. MOO
do we now about how many people work at the Corner Club?
 
If I were charting this killer's route, I'd have parked at the arboretum, walked in the dark, done what I came to do, gone back to arboretum, taken my car, and headed out on Palouse NW which turns into Sandy, and with 8 hours lead time
Does this route pass the gas station that has the Elantra footage?
 
Since we can now discuss that picture, <modsnip: attempting to ID persons in photo>

I think the leaking of this still shot neither advances nor retards the progress of the investigation.

Just more fodder for idle speculation. JMO JMO JMO
I'm skeptical about this photo. Anything can be altered and, interestingly, the Moscow PD press release from 12/27 hints at the possibility:

  • There have been numerous inquiries from members of the public and media to verify digital media published online. Any picture or video provided through the official public records request process is authentic. However, once a record is released, we can no longer verify its authenticity as we do not know if anything has been altered. Detectives are aware of videos distributed by local businesses.
 
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