ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 5

[MassGuy]

The 911 caller couldn’t have known the victims were actually dead for sure without getting up close and possibly taking their pulse. Wishful thinking might be the reason for saying “Unconscious.” And if the caller did say the person was dead, some of us would be asking suspiciously “How did they know?” “They must have been the murderer if they know they’re dead.”

JMO



I think it sounds sensible if they know who made the call. It makes sense to me that LE would want to protect that person from scrutiny. Already I’ve seen it said here that the caller is the murderer!

JMO

The issues I have are twofold:

That the caller apparently didn't use their own phone.

That the caller apparently didn't mention the blood, which they just have to have seen.

But yes, it's entirely possible that there's an innocent explanation for this, and it doesn't make me feel like this person is a solid suspect or anything. It just gives me pause at this point.

 

[MassGuy]

Just my thoughts and opinions after reading this thread in its entirety and feeling creeped out.

There’s been so much conflicting information. I think it was probably one of the survivors who called 911 although at first it was stated earlier it wasn’t.

I don’t think there was a Lockable door from the first to second floor. Wouldn’t make sense since the punch pad door in the front of the house was the main entrance and it sounds like everyone knew the code and walked right up. However it makes complete sense to me the two girls locked their doors. I’m sure they wouldn’t want a somebody coming in and mistaking their room for a living area or bathroom.

IMO Im confident someone came from the back of the house thru the brush and entered through the patio doors that probably weren’t even locked. I also think it possible when they left they did so from the upstairs balcony that doesn’t appear too high and would explain the lack of a blood trail any why LE was searching in the backyard. Then I’m guessing back thru the trees to wherever.

I really hope LE knows more than they are letting on. I’m creeped out by all this and I am far far away from it. Not surprised everyone left town.

Lastly I recall another poster saying it was such a busy weekend with football games too in addition to the other activities, my point being lots of out of town people visiting.

That's how I'd enter if I wanted to break into that house. There's a window, and a door in the back, and you could sneak up on the house unseen, and get a decent look inside.

 

[KonaHonu]

I know we have at least one former (or current) 911 operator, several LEOs and I bet a few EMS people on her. I'm going to describe how I expect the response for an unconscious person would play out. Every jurisdiction has its own way of doing things but I think this is a fair generalization.

Once a medical call for an unconcious person comes in, EMS will be dispatched. police may also be dispatched depending on workload and local policies.

During the response the 911 operator will continue to gather relevant information and relay to EMS responders. They will ask questions about the scene (fallen power lines, trauma, likely cause of unconsciousness, etc.) They will also try to get the caller to start treatment by talking them through a script. For an unconscious person this would likely involve checking for breathing, pulse, etc.

EMS will use information they receive to prepare. If they learn the person is breathing and has a pulse their puckere factor will go down and they will anticipate the likely cause of unconsciousness. College neighborhood, Sunday morning, I'm going to be thinking drug OD.

If EMS arrives first, they will assess scene safety, park with the back of the ambulance to the house and the front facing the nearest (or intended) hospital. Depending on condition (breathing/not) one responder will go in with his bag or they might take the time to bring a gurney or whatever. They will begin treatment. Disturbing the crime scene is NOT a consideration except if the victim is obviously dead, in which case they will obviously try to preserve as much as possible.

If police arrive first their role will be to assess scene safety. They will park away from the scene to stay out of the way of the ambulance. They will then go in to make an initial medical and scene safety assessment. If there are two officers one may stay outside to direct traffic. If the officer is trained and the situation warrants it she may begin treatment. I say "may" because it is a judgement call. Once you begin treatment you cannot stop, even to resume police duties, unless you hand off care to someone of equal or higher training.

This is for a medical call. The EMT/paramedic is effectively the incident commander and police work for him/her. This is the case until all medical victims are transported or leave on their own. Only then do the police take charge. Basically, treating victims take precedence over an investigation. In practice these people work together every day respect each other so there is rarely any significant conflict.

I'm providing this description partly to help understand the positioning of the police cars during the initial response. I think we have pictures of that. Is there a void where the ambulance would have been?

 

[Luna20]

I saw that on the county website. I looked for development plans, but did not request them. Apparently they are available to the public on request. That would provide us with the floor plans - which is helpful when there are four murders in one house where six people are sleeping, or almost asleep.

The renovation might have been on kitchen and bathroom upgrades. The first floor might have always been a suite.

Are there any other exits/entrances to the house? There's the first floor door, the second floor patio door in the kitchen. Is there a third door somewhere, other than the third floor patio door?

How did the culprit enter the house? Which bedroom on the second floor was occupied, which was the extra bedroom? Were the couple on the second floor murdered first because they woke up, or got up, when they heard the door at 3 AM ... when all the roommates were at home and in bed.

Thank you to Garshin for the floorplans.

View attachment 381145

In an interview with a friend she claimed the door was rarely locked.

 

[otto]

As far as I know, no. I said I based my floorplan on the crude drawing of the property owner but the way they drew the third floor makes zero sense so I mostly used the zillow pictures as well as the exterior photos. I tried many times to figure out a layout based on that third floor drawing and could not come up with anything. The drawing would place the bathroom on the wall where the deck is but that is impossible IMO. The reason I know the layout is very close to what I have is because you can see the spindles of the deck railing from bedroom #5 window (zillow picture 8), the window above the stairs (zillow picture 11) and from bedroom #6 (zillow picture 9 and 10). There are some blind spots on zillow that I had to guess. For instance the third floor closet may very well not exist and the pantry on the second floor may be under the stairs. I can only say that this other floorplan which I had absolutely nothing to do with came to the same conclusion (the perspective is from the back of the house however). I could still be completely wrong of course.

Thank you! Just saw your updated drawings. That looks right.

 

[Jacpansea]

Seriously agree, it’s been one week tonight since the incident, is this truly the first time they’ve put out a call for camera footage from the area? Isn’t a lot of that footage subject to getting deleted and re-recorded over within days at most?

Our camera footage lasts for 90 days and then is deleted.

 

[AdahJo]

So the Idaho Statesman is reporting that 911 call DID come from one of the roommates cell phone. The newspaper is behind a paywall but this is the article on Yahoo:

Police: 911 call in University of Idaho killings came from one of roommates’ cellphones

The ride-share driver who took two of the victims home just before 2 a.m. last Sunday has been cleared, law enforcement said.

www.yahoo.com

 

[gliving]

Yes. The survivors were found on the first floor. The upper two floor were bloody.

View attachment 381147

Great visual, Otto. It tells a story.

 

[lissaelle]

Good point. The house might have been renovated a few years ago, possible converting main floor garage into living space. Stairs between that part of the house, and the upper floors, might have a door at the bottom or top of the stairs.

I see the garage theory being brought up a lot. To add to that conversation, in 2007 there was a detached garage out front which leads me to believe maybe there wasn’t an attached garage, especially with the location of the stairs. JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Doesn't look like this has been posted:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594111597399920642

 

[UltraViolet4545]

Whoever made the 911 call, I think it’s important to keep in mind they (most likely) wouldn’t have known the deceased had been stabbed. The murder weapon was not left on scene. If I came across a bloody person on the ground, my mind would not jump to “stabbing, dead person.”

 

[KPO]

Someone posted earlier video of the police taking fingerprints from a window. So it's possible the attacker did not enter through a door.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594180055827378177

 

[amh313]

This new update is matching more and more that MM or KG were the target and the surviving roommates heard nothing because of their proximity to where the murders occurred. I still strongly suspect that the killer entered through the sliding glass door and went hunting for his target and found EC/XN sleeping in the same bed and killed them. Then he went upstairs and found KG & BM and killed them. Having satisfied his mission and seeing no other witnesses, he left.

The two survivors survived by pure luck that he didn't go down to the first floor. The one thing that I still find intriguing is if the murders happened between 3-4 AM and one of the surviving roommates made the call, why did they report it as an "unconscious person"? The crime scene was described as a bloody mess so whoever they saw unconscious would've presumably had blood all over or near them.

I'm not as worried about the timeframe as to why they called at noon. If both went to bed very late, it's possible they slept in and didn't come out of their rooms until very late AM. They could've been doing homework, texting/talking to friends or just playing on their phones and having a lazy Sunday. If they were on the first floor and heard nothing, then there's no reason for them to come out of their rooms.

I agree with this statement. I think the killer entered through the sliding glass door on the 1st floor and that MM and KG were the target(s). Inside edition reported that a student heard second hand that KG reported of having a stalker a couple months ago. Information released said KG and MM were calling a man repeatedly after they got home but all those calls went unanswered. KG's sister revealed that KG and MM were calling KG's long-time boyfriend whom she was on a break with. It seems like the police did not want the information released that is was the boyfriend being called.

The latest I've read is the police have not ruled him in or out as suspect. KG's sister said her family doesn't suspect him of anything. Im wondering if KG and MM encountered the person KG believed was stalking her and thats why they called KGs ex boyfriend repeatedly? If they did encounter her possible stalker he may have been the one to have committed these murders.

IMO it still seems unlikely that one person was able to kill all 4 of victims. It seems more likely that there were 2 killers. If it was KG's stalker, it could be that the stalker also had someone with them as an accomplice.

IMO it seems more likely that if MM and KG were the targets, the killer(s) entered through the sliding glass door in the kitchen went straight upstairs to MM and KG and killed them. Is it possible that whoever committed these murders thought they could get in and out quickly and quietly enough to leave before being caught inside? If that happened maybe XK and EC woke up to the attack above them and came out to investigate and were killed themselves? XK's father confirmed she had defensive wounds. It's possible she was up and out of the bedroom to investigate the commotion, so maybe EC was also up and out of bedroom with her, which resulted in them coming into contact with the murderer. So if MM and KG were the only intended targets that could explain how all 4 ended up murdered and also explains why the two roommates on the very bottom floor survived.

IMO I don't find it suspicious that the 2 roommates on the bottom floor were able to sleep through all this for several possible reasons. They could be heavy sleepers, which I know seems like a stretch. But as someone myself who is and always has been a heavy sleeper, now combined with hearing loss in one ear, I can tell you I've slept through very very loud noise. They could have been the type that sleep with ear plugs. They could've relied on RX strength sleeping pills, like ambien, to sleep. They are college kids, so its possible they went to bed very drunk and slept through this for that reason. Also we still don't know if XK and EC were found in XK's room correct? It's completely possible that none of the attacks occurred directly over either bedroom of the surviving roommates were and they remained asleep.

It's hard to speculate one specific at this point because no ones been named a suspect. At this point, the report of a possible stalker seems to be setting off the most red flags.

Has it been reported if the dog was in the house or yard at the time of the murders?

 

[Curiosa20]

Ummm, my understanding of CIRG is completely different based on this...

What is the Critical Incident Response Group?​

The FBI’s Critical Incident Response Group (CIRG) provides rapid assistance to incidents in a crisis. Through CIRG, expert assistance is available in cases involving the abduction or mysterious disappearance of children, crisis management, hostage negotiation, criminal investigative analysis, and special weapons and tactics. CIRG also assists in the assessment, selection, and training of FBI undercover employees.

Isn’t that great they can help manage this crisis!

 

[Ghostwheel]

Theories: person arrived (maybe friend of E) sliding door open. Walks in, sees someone laying on floor, not in a room. Screams. Roommates from downstairs hear and come up, phone is used. OR third person arrives as roommates are coming back home, all go in together third person walks up stairs, sees body. Runs back downstairs. Might have left phone in car. (I do if I'm running in to get someone). 911 asks if the person down is breathing, always. I don't know = get someone there asap in case just unconscious and needs life saving help.

Logic tells me if someone saw a body (not two bodies) then that one body was likely not in a bedroom, or was and the other body was elsewhere. This indicates to me the killing started on the top floor, someone heard the noise and went to look and was killed, then the last one killed.

To me, that means the target was one of the girls on the top floor.

But those are just personal theories.

 

[Garshin]

I saw that on the county website. I looked for development plans, but did not request them. Apparently they are available to the public on request. That would provide us with the floor plans - which is helpful when there are four murders in one house where six people are sleeping, or almost asleep.

The renovation might have been on kitchen and bathroom upgrades. The first floor might have always been a suite.

Are there any other exits/entrances to the house? There's the first floor door, the second floor patio door in the kitchen. Is there a third door somewhere, other than the third floor patio door?

How did the culprit enter the house? Which bedroom on the second floor was occupied, which was the extra bedroom? Were the couple on the second floor murdered first because they woke up, or got up, when they heard the door at 3 AM ... when all the roommates were at home and in bed.

Thank you to Garshin for the floorplans.

View attachment 381145

This is the route I had guessed as well. I assumed E+X were in Bedroom #3 for three reasons. 1) Because that would place all victims in the back of the house meaning they could have been seen/counted/monitored from the small woodsy area in the back and 2) It would make the most "effiecient" route for the killer to take and 3) IMO it makes the story of the roommates not hearing anything much more plausible. However, that is a complete guess on my part. The other floorplan I found elsewhere places them in Bedroom #4 which is also where the picture of supposed blood dripping down the exterior is. I personally don't think it's blood but again that's entirely MOO. They very well could have been in Bedroom #4 for all I know.

 

[late1]

It took a very fearless killer to enter a home with six adults, one a large strong male, and a dog!

Maybe there are clues in your statement. From the opposite perspective, nobody would enter a home like that, right?

IMO the perp entered the home not thinking about all those people and a dog. Perp entered home, very motivated, focused on 1 or 2 females. IMO

 

[JohnBull]

This is exactly why they haven’t released the name (and shouldn’t IMO).

How many times does the person that reports the crime turn out to be the perpetrator? Not very often, that I am aware of.

The Zodiac Killer did it twice. But he did it from a public phone and left before the call could be traced. These days it's an iffier proposition, if you're using your own cell phone. That said, now that I think of, if this is the sort of killer I suspect it was, a phone call wouldn't be out of the question.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Whoever made the 911 call, I think it’s important to keep in mind they (most likely) wouldn’t have known the deceased had been stabbed. The murder weapon was not left on scene. If I came across a bloody person on the ground, my mind would not jump to “stabbing, dead person.”

I think it depends on if they were clothed or not?

Either the call was just recorded weird by dispatch, or it’s really really weird and telling, imho.