ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 6

[isabella88]

I think you all are putting too much emphasis on the “unconscious person”. It makes complete sense to me that 911 is not going to tell dispatch that there are dead people since there are people that listen to the scanners. That could cause a frenzy and have nosey people showing up and getting in the way.

I don’t listen to scanners but to those that do - is it typical that they announce when someone is found deceased?

If they do announce they would use a code.

 

[SuziQ]

Still catching up. But the words used in the PC are telling. The phones call made by the girls phones are considered not connected. But the question was if the subject called had been cleared. Note that question has not been answered.

The 911 caller who was using a surviving roommates phone. That person was cleared, whoever that was. But they won't say who that was.

That there were several friends that were present at the 911 call is interesting.

And still saying targeted. Also interesting.

I will say it makes me crazy when they say they were all likely killed while they were asleep and in the same sentence say that there were defensive wounds. You cannot defend yourself if you are asleep. So, might they have been asleep when the attack started? OK. But if someone had defensive wounds, they were not killed while asleep.

Automatic reflex would be to immediately raise you arms and legs. imo.

 

[KPO]

Just watched the press conference, and the transcript didn't catch Kedrick Wills stumbling over his words in a possible slip-up.

"And the way that we know how to do that is partnerships and our partnership with the Moscow Police Department, with the Idaho State Police, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the University of Idaho, to bring this issue to a conclusion and bring this to justice is absolute."

The transcript cleaned up his words. He actually stumbled and said, at first, "bring these" and then somewhat awkwardly corrected (?) himself to "this". It sounded like he was going to say "bring these killers to justice".

Multiple killers?

He could have meant bringing the perpetrator of the attacks on these victims to justice. It's easy to misspeak in plural when you're talking about a crime with multiple victims/separate attacks on 2nd and 3rd floor, etc.

In the interview with KG's parents, the father kept referring to the perpetrator as a guy. He corrected himself one time but then said "this guy" at least 2-3 more times. IMO, most people believe this attack was committed by a male and most believe it's 1 person, not 2.

But that doesn't mean the father knows this was done by a male or that it was done by 1 male.

 

[L.laricina]

I agree. He seemed nervous and evasive, like he wanted to change the subject as quickly as possible.

I noticed that also. I wasn't watching, at that point I was reading the early pages of this thread, but his change in tone and tempo caught my attention and I rolled the video back to that question. Chief wanted to downplay that question. My first thought was that he was being disinformative.

 

[Angleterre]

Nothing new to add.. here to say I have a feeling (based only on what's been posted in the last 3 threads/MOO) that Maddie was the intended target, she happened to have someone in the room with her (reason for death #2), and the killer "ran into" Ethan on the way out (reason for death #3). Xana heard/was awoken during attack on Ethan and was the last victim. I think it all happened quickly, and the killer ran out after killing victim #4. My hunch is that the killer did NOT know that a 5th and 6th person were in the home. Despite the tire track info/pics, I do not think a vehicle was used in the actual crime or by the killer. Somehow, Maddie knew someone (likely work or a nearby neighbor), and they were angry. Angry, or they were obsessed with her but not necessarily close with her. Could it be something that happened earlier in the evening? Maybe. But, my bet is that these disgusting murders did not occur solely due to one incident earlier in the evening.

Thank you to all that have added such thoughtful posts! I cannot imagine what these families are going through, but they've certainly been strong.

I’m considering if it was an ex ? It’s a much more frenzied personal way to kill somebody. I will await further updates from LE

JMHO

 

[MassGuy]

Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022

MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.

Updated Information:

• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.

• At this time in the investigation, detectives do not believe any individual at the residence, when 911 was called, is involved in this crime.

• Rumors and speculation continue circulating about the ongoing investigation. MPD cautions the public not to rely on rumors and remains committed to keeping the public informed. We urge reliance on official channels for accurate information.

• TIPS: Detectives are looking for context to the events and people involved in these murders. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information is asked to call the Tip Line at 208-883-7180 or email tipline@ci.moscow.id.us.

• PRESS RELEASES: All press releases go through the listserv process on the City of Moscow website. To sign up for news releases, visit News Flash
o Under Tools on the right side of the page, click Notify Me.
o Fill out the form at the top with your email address and or phone number.
o Scroll down to City of Moscow Press Releases and choose to be notified by email/phone.
o This action will allow you to receive all press releases as they are released.
o All news releases are posted on City of Moscow PD Facebook page.

• MEDIA: To streamline media inquiries and requests, please send them to moscowpdpio@ci.moscow.is.us. This email address is directed to the Communications Team and allows for quicker responses. The new PIO phone number is for media organization use only: 208-883-7181 (landline-only number, no texts). Email is the preferred format for requests and inquiries.

• We encourage our community to rely on official channels for the most accurate information. These are the City of Moscow News Releases and the Moscow PD Facebook page.

• There will be a News Conference to update the public on the investigation.

Wednesday, November 23, 2022
1:00 p.m.
University of Idaho
Alumni Lounge of the ICCU Arena
900 Stadium Drive, Moscow, Idaho
*Live streaming link

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid025JpFeAESBfMRbsMDk7nqbdxCo6N8BvgfZYHjzPoSXDNrdmCumpfjErbvTEtrmdSRl&id=100082550200493&mibextid=qC1gEa

 

[Sleuthchik7]

I really think if the caller cannot confirm a medical reason, LE goes in first to clear it. When I called about my neighbor, LE went in first and confirmed it was safe to enter.

<modsnip> I’m guessing police just got there first.

 

[Manwel]

This is literally the same thing I just cannot reconcile. They reiterated the call 911 received stated having found an unconscious person. These kids were are reportedly stabbed multiple times in multiple areas in their beds. Ethan’s parents stated in an interview Ethan and Xana were in a room together which leads me to believe they were not the victims initially seen after which the 911 call was made, which throws out the whole came across these two by chance then had to kill them scenario. That leaves either Madison or Kaylee to have been first noticed “unconscious”. With multiple stab wounds, you can’t tell me that’s what would be said to the 911 operator. It would be a bloody mess with each stab placed creating spatter that would have likely been visible, particularly when you hear how gruesome and bloody the scene was from investigators. Even though it shouldn’t be, this is one of the biggest discrepancies that has not been directly addressed and resolved despite having been asked about it multiple times.

If they were 100% truly all found in their beds, then perhaps the sequence of events is one of the roommates went to one of the rooms to ask something or say hi. They knock and knock and knock and get no answer. But, they saw all the cars out front so they know they're home or out on foot. So they try texting them. But they hear a phone in the bedroom, so they know they're home. They take a peek into the room and see blood/bodies.

Freaked out, they go to the next floor to get the others. Same experience.

Fearful that someone might still be in their house, they immediately call people to come to the house for safety reasons. This could explain why multiple people were there when police arrived.

Perhaps this is also when they called the police. Likely in shock, they probably said the roommates were "not moving" and "there's blood" and so 911 sent cops and EMS.

By the time the police actually arrive, people from a fraternity are already there acting as bodyguards.

Cops separate everyone and ask their stories and they all align and make sense. After getting all these stories, getting details about what the roommates heard or saw, the cops finally come to the realization that someone else could have done this. Cops send alert to university to send out an alert.

 

[karen in New York]

Someone mentioned that the 911 dispatchers probably asked something like " did you check for a pulse?" "Are you sure they are deceased?" and the probably hysterical person just didn't know anything at that point and was probably too scared to go in and check for pulses and didn't have the credentials to definitely declare someone deceased, so it's just normal to say "unconscious person" because the victims had not been officially declared deceased at that point and dead is "unconscious". Just my opinion.

I would also think that if 911 thought that there was a even a possibility that an intruder was inside the house, they would want the police to enter first. Once deemed safe, then EMTs could enter. This is what happens in my community.

 

[isabella88]

Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.

Interesting. So several people talked to the 911 dispatcher. A lot to untangle.

And why did the caller say someone was passed out and not waking up? They couldn't have tried too hard to wake any of the victims up without seeing the horror.

 

[late1]

From the transcripts linked above:

Determined the cause and manner of death as homicide by stabbing and determined that it was likely all four victims were asleep during the attack.

My question is, does this just mean all the victims were asleep when the killer entered the house and began the first attack, or does it mean each one was sleeping when they, themselves, were attacked? At the very least I would go out on a limb and guess E and X were in the same bed (just my assumption). If one was attacked, the other had to wake up, so I don't know if this statement was literal in the sense that none were awake in the moments just before they were attacked. IDK.

Does it need to be so literal to solve the crime? You have to know this is a question that can never be answered, whether all the victims were literally sound asleep at the moment of first knife wound. LE, coroner, ME cannot answer that question. You will never get that detail unless the killer confesses and is honest.

I think the best we can understand is they were in their beds asleep when the attack occurred.

It does rule out some of the speculative theories about a party, or an altercation, or K and M frantically dialing J because they were alarmed. Those probably didn't happen.

I think what they are getting at is it was late and after bedtime for all of them. I can work with that, whether I am playing sleuth or juror. No doubt there was some waking for each individual at the time each individual was attacked, and maybe E or X heard some commotion and investigated. But by and large it sounds like they were sleeping when this went down.

 

[Warwick7]

Still catching up. But the words used in the PC are telling. The phones call made by the girls phones are considered not connected. But the question was if the subject called had been cleared. Note that question has not been answered.

The 911 caller who was using a surviving roommates phone. That person was cleared, whoever that was. But they won't say who that was.

That there were several friends that were present at the 911 call is interesting.

And still saying targeted. Also interesting.

I will say it makes me crazy when they say they were all likely killed while they were asleep and in the same sentence say that there were defensive wounds. You cannot defend yourself if you are asleep. So, might they have been asleep when the attack started? OK. But if someone had defensive wounds, they were not killed while asleep.

I too questioned that. However, I could be asleep and my husband be attacked/quickly dead, yet I awake and try to fend off the attacker and then die in the process.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

Interesting. So several people talked to the 911 dispatcher. A lot to untangle.

And why did the caller say someone was passed out and not waking up? They couldn't have tried too hard to wake any of the victims up without seeing the horror.

Is it possible the room was locked, so they were banging on the door and couldn’t wake them up, thus called 911 believing they were unconscious? JSS

 

[Snoopster]

Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022

MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.

Updated Information:

• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.

snipped and bolded by me for focus

So the roommates saw one of the victims lying there and THEN called friends over.
Wouldn't there be blood? If they thought their roommate was unconscious, would they try to wake them? Wouldn't they call out for the other roommates to help?

I'm confused now.

 

[isabella88]

Is it possible the room was locked, so they were banging on the door and couldn’t wake them up, thus called 911 believing they were unconscious? JSS

If the door locked from the outside, maybe.

 

[Kalia]

Does it need to be so literal to solve the crime? You have to know this is a question that can never be answered, whether all the victims were literally sound asleep at the moment of first knife wound. LE, coroner, ME cannot answer that question. You will never get that detail unless the killer confesses and is honest.

I think the best we can understand is they were in their beds asleep when the attack occurred.

It does rule out some of the speculative theories about a party, or an altercation, or K and M frantically dialing J because they were alarmed. Those probably didn't happen.

I think what they are getting at is it was late and after bedtime for all of them. I can work with that, whether I am playing sleuth or juror. No doubt there was some waking for each individual at the time each individual was attacked, and maybe E or X heard some commotion and investigated. But by and large it sounds like they were sleeping when this went down.

Yes. If we know for sure that they were sleeping, it narrows down the possibilities a lot.

 

[Sillybilly]

Websleuths does not do nasty. Don't be nasty with each other.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

If the door locked from the outside, maybe.

I actually didn’t think about that, you’re right. It doesn’t really compute on a logical level.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Automatic reflex would be to immediately raise you arms and legs. imo.

But would you do that if truly asleep? Real question. I don't defend myself if I am asleep, but maybe others do? I have to be awake enough to know I'm being attacked (I have gotten a broken nose when my spouse rolled over and flung his hand at my face- complete accident. Totally woke up and defended myself).

Definition:A defense wound or self-defense wound is an injury received by the victim of an attack while trying to defend against the assailant

Of course, it occurs to me that "defensive wounds" might simply be a descriptor for a type of wound that was found, but maybe wasn't really caused by someone defending themselves. I would think they'd call it something else, but could be wrong.

 

[AgithaBoots]

snipped and bolded by me for focus

So the roommates saw one of the victims lying there and THEN called friends over.
Wouldn't there be blood? If they thought their roommate was unconscious, would they try to wake them? Wouldn't they call out for the other roommates to help?

I'm confused now.

As i am as well so sad