ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

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Evoking feelings of guilt and sorrow in a psychopath is by definition impossible. They lack remorse and conscience. You are thinking like a person who has empathy. They do not.(source: definition of psychopathy)
I agree with your assessment. As a matter of fact, I think this person is relishing the moment and reliving the crime scene in his mind and feeling very proud of his handiwork. It probably goes without saying that this personality type would closely follow this case on TV and online.
 
Sorry, but how do we know whose bedroom’s were whose? Are you speculating or do we have a MSM link to confirm all of this? If so I haven’t seen it. Thanks.
I’m wondering if it were hypothetically Ethan they saw, if they would call his siblings.
 
LE hasn't said that the surviving roommates called friends before 911. The surviving roommates may have been still sleeping or hanging out in their rooms when other friends came over and made the discovery and they then called 911.
Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022

MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.

Updated Information:

• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.
 
Premature or not they're still saying it. From the Presser.

Reporter - Y'all have said that these killings are targeted. Can you share with us, why you believe they are targeted killings? And do you know who, if any, of the victims were the actual targets of the killings?

Chief - As we stated earlier, in our previous press conference, we believe they're targeted because we take a totality of all the circumstances that we're looking at. Do we know any one person that it was targeted? We're not able to say at this point in time, due to our investigation, but we still believe that, but like I said, we take a totality of everything that we're looking at.

ETA: I do strongly believe they know who the target was and why.
BBM.

I agree. He didn't say that they don't know. He said we're not able to say (to you) due to the investigation.
 
In relation to the 911 call and the roommates (my heart goes out to them and the trauma they are enduring) - I can only imagine the shock they were in. I imagine that 911 call is very chaotic, with multiple voices on the call.

Summoning friends over could have been as simple as a text saying ‘Something is wrong, we don’t know what to do, please come over.’ Or maybe, as it seems they were was multiple housing with students nearby, one of them went directly over to a friends house to get help?

When you are in a situation like that, how you think you’ll react goes out the window. I was in a situation (not as serious as this) where I reacted quite calmly and a tad recklessly when I’d have assumed I’d have reacted with panic. The things we think we would do when met with a scene like that are quite often not what we’d do.

I just feel so awful for all their loved ones. A friend of mine was killed when we were in college and there was something so surreal seeing their face on news. So I can empathise with how hard it must be for them to be grieving and for it to be so public.

Hope this post is OK - it’s technically my first if you don’t count a botched accidental one and a reply sending a YouTube link!
 
Thank you lol! I hadn’t gotten to reading that yet, so frantically just trying to collect & help organize information, post, document as much as possible during these crucial early stages, I have barely had a chance to read much of what I’ve collected from everyone. There’s a really a lot here, it’s a week later and I’m not even close to caught up!

Thankfully there is a lot of reference material to work with in the future, let’s hope there’s no future though and the killer is arrested ASAP and everyone can move onto the next step!

So, iirc, @Ontario Mom had mentioned the thought of a female perp. That hadn’t naturally crossed my mind...of course it’s possible...thinking more about this, wasn’t there a female who went on a stabbing rampage recently in Europe somewhere...whatever the case, I wonder if a female would commit this type of crime. Sure women have stabbed, but ykwim, has there been a female Ted Bundy type in the past? This was likely discussed previously, sorry I missed it. I would guess male, but I guess anything’s possible.
I only mentioned a woman suspect in relation to what evil women are capable of doing with a knife. Re: what women did in the Tate-LaBianca crime scenes. Just to say, yes, it's definitely possible a woman could have done this, but I really don't have any reason to assume female over male suspect.

jmo
 
I'm not hugely older than the victims and surviving room mates. In this specific situation (or what we know of it), I would definitely message or call friends before I would LE. I can't tell you why, but I know I would. I wouldn't take photos, but I would reach out to them as a primary point of contact, reassurance and comfort.

My heart goes out to them and the victims loved ones. And also to the dog. Who knows what he witnessed or experienced that night, but the loss of a close human and the consequent intense human emotions must be very hard on him as well.
 
Thanks, I don't really understand why they are releasing critical evidence piecemeal in these updates? They didn't say this at the PC yesterday.

If this is true then my theory changes and I think I understand why they think the crime was "targeted." The roommates seeing someone on the 2nd floor and thinking they passed out - and there was not a gory bloody scene - then maybe the people on the 2nd floor were not attacked in the same way as the people on the third floor.

If one scene was different than the other(s), then you may think that person was the target.
 
Thanks, I don't really understand why they are releasing critical evidence piecemeal in these updates? They didn't say this at the PC yesterday.

If this is true then my theory changes and I think I understand why they think the crime was "targeted." The roommates seeing someone on the 2nd floor and thinking they passed out - and there was not a gory bloody scene - then maybe the people on the 2nd floor were not attacked in the same way as the people on the third floor.

If one scene was different than the other(s), then you may think that person was the target.
This is a very good point and food for thought.
But, I also think of when the coroner said:

“Mabbutt couldn't say how many times each victim was stabbed but said it was safe to say each of them had multiple wounds. She declined to say where on the body they were stabbed and later clarified that the victims were stabbed in different places and a different amount of times.”


So I would still assume there would have been a lot of blood with each victim. JMO
 
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None of the victims showed signs of sexual assault, Ms. Mabbutt said, and toxicology reports have not been completed.




Toxicology reports is what I want to see, I’ve wondered if they were unknowingly drugged then murdered. Jmo
Coroner Has New Details About Fatal Slaying of 4 U of Idaho Students After Autopsies

They are awaiting final autopsy results, which will not be available for another four to six weeks, pending toxicology. Mabbutt said in this case, the toxicology reports likely wouldn't be important to the investigation.
 
Catching up. Forgive me if this has been asked and answered. Could it be that the friends of the surviving roommates were already at the house before someone realized there had been a terrible tragedy?
 
Can someone link the article or interview where somebody (maybe a mother) said that E was found on the floor or hall? I missed it and it's important, imo.

Also, I think part of the reason the 911 call hasn't been released is because it would give away too much information about who and what was seen on the 2nd floor. Jmo.
 
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Thanks, I don't really understand why they are releasing critical evidence piecemeal in these updates? They didn't say this at the PC yesterday.

If this is true then my theory changes and I think I understand why they think the crime was "targeted." The roommates seeing someone on the 2nd floor and thinking they passed out - and there was not a gory bloody scene - then maybe the people on the 2nd floor were not attacked in the same way as the people on the third floor.

If one scene was different than the other(s), then you may think that person was the target.
MOO I don't think it's piecemeal. I think the internet jumped to conclusions after the press conference and LE wanted things set straight. So inturn they released a written statement.
 
Sorry, but how do we know whose bedroom’s were whose? Are you speculating or do we have a MSM link to confirm all of this? If so I haven’t seen it. Thanks.
Several tidbits from family members who have said where their loved one slept in the house. I believe KG's sister said that she & MM slept on the third floor. I think then it's by process of elimination that you can determine that XK's room that she & EC were sleeping in that night was on the second floor because LE's press release said victims were found on the second and third floors. So then again by process of elimination you can determine:
  • KG/MM: Third floor bedrooms
  • XK (w/ EC that night): Second floor bedroom - other second floor bedroom is assumed to be unused or perhaps was a crash spot for friends when they had parties
  • Two surviving roommates: First floor bedrooms
Since the victims were found on the second and third floors, the two survivors almost have to have slept on the first floor.
 
Thanks, I don't really understand why they are releasing critical evidence piecemeal in these updates? They didn't say this at the PC yesterday.

If this is true then my theory changes and I think I understand why they think the crime was "targeted." The roommates seeing someone on the 2nd floor and thinking they passed out - and there was not a gory bloody scene - then maybe the people on the 2nd floor were not attacked in the same way as the people on the third floor.

If one scene was different than the other(s), then you may think that person was the target.
If the killer was someone known to any of the victims, suicide is always a possibility and would make confirmation of killer more complicated. A big IF tho.
 
MOO I don't think it's piecemeal. I think the internet jumped to conclusions after the press conference and LE wanted things set straight. So inturn they released a written statement.
The information they released makes the roommates look worse than people were assuming. At the PC LE said they did not think anyone at the house when the 911 call was made was a suspect.

I don't think clarifying this helped anyone. It certainly doesn't make the roommates look better.
 

'The police said that, when the roommates woke up, they called some of their friends to the house because they believed one of the stabbing victims on the second floor “had passed out and was not waking up.” Once the friends arrived, someone from the group called 911 just before noon, and police arrived and found the additional victims.'

Where did the police say this with this much specificity? I didn't hear this exact info from the presser. Or has the journo filled in the gaps ?

Moscow Homicide Update
November 20, 2022

MOSCOW, Idaho – The Moscow Police Department is providing the following information to update the public on the known facts surrounding the four murders that occurred on November 13th in Moscow, Idaho.

Updated Information:

• Detectives are releasing that on the morning of November 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence because they believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up. At 11:58 a.m., a 911 call requested aid for an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence on one of the surviving roommates’ cell phone. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher before a Moscow Police officer arrived at the location. Officers entered the residence and found the four victims on the second and third floors.

AHA! Thank you! This was driving me crazy.
 
I'm just not hearing candy, candies, or candles. All I hear is band-aids. Here is the interview, can you tell me which point in the interview you are referring to?
Parents of Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves speak out
Interview with Kaylee's mom and dad.

20th November.

Reporter - We are joined by the parent's of Kaylee Goncalves, one of the victim's of this tragedy, C and S Goncalves, thank you so much for joining us and we're so sorry for your loss. C and S, can you tell me about your daughter, tonight?

Dad - Our daughter was super driven, she was a 3x deans list member. Her grades were amazing, she competed with everybody. She loved competing. She was just a highly driven person who...

Mom - Had many goals in life.

Dad - She had an internship that she was offered a full time position and we've worked with them and they've been great with us, this whole time. Yeah, she was driven and she was gonna go somewhere in life and a great member of society and that's what we wanted.

Reporter - You all have to be so proud of her and she was taken away from us far too soon. Can you tell us what the authorities have been telling you? We want to do anything that we can to help you to get justice for your daughter and the rest of the victims. What are they telling you?

Dad - They're telling us that there's so much evidence that it's gonna take a lot of time to process it all. This wasn't like a pinpoint crime. This person was sloppy. He did whatever he... when I say he, obviously you can't say that, that's just me, but he made a mess and there's a mess there and they're gonna have to go through that point by point and that's gonna take a lot of time. That's why they reached out to other facilities to help them with that lab work.

Mom - They do have a mobile unit on site. That they said they were able to really expedite things with this mobile unit. Hopefully, they're reaching out to other DNA, processing companies, such as, (??) to get involved. They have not confirmed that they have DNA from this person, they just said that they have a tonne of evidence. And evidently, today, with the new FBI task force on site and the FBI (??) and the Idaho State police said they were able to pull a tonne of evidence from the house today and they're processing that. It just takes time.

Reporter - We've only heard positive stories about your daughter, and the other victims out there. We couldn't find anybody to say anything about them. It's only been that they were givers, they loved everyone on campus. You see the videos on social media of them being so happy. Did you all have any clue? I mean, there hasn't been a murder, you guys, since 2015. Did you have any clue that they may be unsafe on the campus? Was there any indication?

Mom - Absolutely not. And if there were then we would have told Kaylee to come home immediately and same with Maddie. Maddie's family is our family. I know Maddie's.. we're very close with them. They are not speaking out, they choose not to speak out and they have asked us to please go ahead and speak on behalf of Maddie. They were best friends, from little girls. She was part of our family Kaylee's part of their family and absolutely not. Our son went to that college. No, no, absolutely not.

Dad - My daughter was aware of an environment.

Mom - Very aware.

Dad - She'd turn her camera on. She would film when she thought somebody was following her out of a mall parking lot or a grocery store. She was very aware that, she was a pretty girl, and that could attract some problems. So, she was alert. She was a streetwise child.

Mom - She herself was a web sleuth. Literally through and through which is just so ironic and just so surreal and all of it, you know? Just very sad for families when she'd hear about this type of stuff happening, like, 'Mom, did you hear bout that or mom, did you hear about that? She was very well of her surroundings, very well. I mean, she would think somebody was following her and she would call me, 'Mom, I think there's somebody following me', and I'm like 'well, Kaylee, call the police', then she'd say 'oh never mind, they just turned into 711'. I mean, she was aware, very aware and she locked her doors at night and she locked her car.

Kaylee was home, had just been home, so we were so thankful that she's been home for a week and a half. She just bought a brand new vehicle for herself, her first vehicle. She had planned a trip. She was planning on backpacking across Europe for the month of January. Starting her new job in February with this internship so that she... wound up offering her a full-time, very well paid position, that she was very excited to take. And she was with us for the last week and a half. She went home on Friday to literally go show off her new vehicle. She was like 'Maddie has to see my new ride, like she has to see this'. And she was talking to Maddie the whole time, going back and forth between the car she was buying and said 'I'm not going to tell you, you're just gonna see me pull up and wait to see what I pull up in'. And that was Friday and we spoke to Kaylee on Saturday and she sent me pictures of... all of the pictures that are online. And they were both of our girls.

Reporter - When was the last time y'all spoke? What was that conversation like? Was it just like you described?

Mom - Kaylee called me on Saturday, my birthday was earlier in the week and I didn't get anything for my birthday, boohoo. She was like, you know, it was not a big deal, but Kaylee called me on Saturday and said 'mum I'll be home on Tuesday and I'm going to take you out to breakfast, lunch and dinner and it's all on me, all on me, and we'll celebrate your birthday', and I said 'well, I don't know if I believe that', meaning she'd pay, but 'that sounds great, Kaylee, and I'll see you on Tuesday, honey'. And then she sent me a couple of pictures of her and Maddie, and that was on Saturday afternoon around 3.

Reporter - Have you had the opportunity to talk with any other victim's family members? I know you all are grieving together.

Mom - Only Maddie's.

Dad - They were just over our house a couple of hours ago.

Mom - We've just had Maddie's mother and father here. They were here for a couple... and it was very emotional for us today. That was the first time that we had gotten together. And just sad. Sad beyond belief. Just beyond anybody's worst nightmare. I'm sure you could. only fathom. It's heart breaking. Maddie was an only child, but like I said, she was our child as well, and even if you asked Kaylee how many siblings she had, she would always say five. 'five sisters and a brother' and that was always Maddie. Maddie was in our oldest daughters wedding. She said 'all of my sisters are my bridesmaids', and Maddie was one of those bridesmaids and it was all of O (Maddie's sister) sisters, including Maddie. Every time we travelled out of the country or went on vacation, Maddie went with us. So, this is both of our girls and we will never stop looking for who killed them.

Reporter - We want to do everything that we can do in our power to get justice for your daughter. We keep hearing this name, Jack, and phone calls going back and forth there. Can you tell us anything about that?

Mom - We love Jack. Absolutely love Jack. We stand by Jack 1000%. Jack was Kaylee's boyfriend for many years. They just recently broke up. There is no animosity at all. It was a break up on Kaylee's point. It was not... they still talked every single day. Kaylee just thought that she needed a little break. They were on the mends of getting back together. Kaylee talked to Jack the whole time she was here for that week and a half.

Dad - One of her messages, one of her last messages - she reached out to Jack and said 'Jack, get back to me' and then she goes 'we share a dog together', which they did, she's like 'you need to reach out to me', so..

Mom - 'Please come over'. She was wanting Jack to come over there. Jack is not.. they're wasting their time with Jack and Jack is just as distraught as we are. Jack is our family. Jack is 1000%, 2000%, our family and Jack is with us and we stand behind him 100%. We're supporting him and we know in our hearts and our minds and our souls, in the depths of our souls. Jack is hurting and.. Kaylee and Jack would have eventually been married. They would eventually had children together. So, to say ex-boyfriend.. it was Kaylee just being a brat, you know, being like 'I just need a break', but Jack was in her heart and they were close to getting back together, and that was just Kaylee being Kaylee. So, absolutely, Jack is..

Dad - We don't think he's a suspect.

Mom - At all.

Reporter - Ma'am, can you tell me about what the mood is like in the town. You guys have been so brave to come on the programme tonight and talk about your daughter, talk about the other victims, talk about the investigation. But a lot of people that weren't even, I mean, it was your daughter that was murdered, they are afraid to come on air because they feel like they could be next. Are you hearing the same thing in the town?

Dad - I don't like the fear. I wanna share my address and give it to you to share with them. I have no fear whatsoever of this individual. I almost welcome him to come to my house. This community has been amazing. Everyday we wake up with more food than we can ever eat, doughnuts, things. People are giving, the whole communities crying. Everyone is hurting. Everyone feels the pain of this. I mean, one shining thing out of all of this is, I've never realised how beautiful my community is and how much love there is there for people. We just have one bad person and we have to find that guy.

Mom - Like my husband said - if he would like our address we'll gladly give it to him. We'd love for him to show up.

Dad - We're not running, I'm not hiding myself online, it's there, you can look me up.

Mom - We can't speak for the other families

Reporter - We continue to support you guys and we wanna remember your daughters legacy tonight. What can we do, in this stage of the investigation, to help our audiences?. We'll put the tip line number up, but what can we do right now to get you guys answers?

Mom - I think we need to post this timeline (the timeline was provided in one of the press releases) because it's a small community. This is like 6-7,000 people. We need to put a timeline out there, where random people can just look there. People don't know, but their Tesla's are filming 24/7, 7 days a week, so, there could be somebody who doesn't realise that they have evidence.

Mom - Their ring cams, their phones. They were out and they were recording and, you know what, they look and 'who what's that shady person.. look at that guy that just run back across the camera' and it's all those little things.

Dad - Did you get gas at the time this activity was going on.

Mom - Gas stations - somebody going and buying candies. Obviously, they're checking hospitals for somebody going in and.. 'where was he when this person was wounded?, where was this person when this person got hurt in this struggle and altercation that took place that night'. You know, they probably need stitches or, you know, going to Walgreens at three in the morning getting band-aids, anything.

Dad - We'll get you that timeline, you post it on your site and that should help.

Reporter - We have that timeline. We will post it up. Anyone, if you see something, anything minor, call the tip line, if you were there in that area, any little piece of evidence can help the authorities. I want to give you one last moment to tell our audience anything else.

Dad - My last thing is, if you have a daughter or even a son in that area, turn on a tracker app. Share that information with your family. Don't walk around that town without everyone knowing who you are. You have to protect yourself. We have somebody lose. I don't wanna create a panic. I don't want to do anything like that but we know what we know. There's somebody out there. He's a psycho and your daughter needs to share her address with you. She might not like that, but that's what you do in times like this.

Reporter - That's right, C, S, before I let you go, because you have been talking with the investigators, what piece of information do you all feel is most important that could break this case wide open?

Mom - It's all digital, digital information, phone pinging off of their residence, somebody's ring cam and they're combing through that. And, obviously, physical evidence from inside the house.

Dad - If you have a router and you know you're within walking distance of this address and this happened, turn that into the evidence. Don't make them go find it. You give it to them. You reach out to them.

Mom - Your neighbour, because if he had his phone in his pocket walking, their phones... are so close, their phone was trying to connect to the Internet as he's walking through. If he had his phone, he/she, we're just assuming it's a he. Just let people know. Let the authorities know - 'my WI-FI is available to you, if you wanna search'. Don't make it hard, don't make it difficult. Don't make search warrants have to be gotten and to search for this. Just say 'hey I'm Kaylee, Maddie's neighbour, check my Wi-Fi, check my spectrum account, my Verizon account, whatever'.

Dad - You could be the key. You really could be the key.

Mom - I would think that the FBI's doing that, but, you know, we...

Dad - But it takes time and if you volunteer it instantly..

Reporter - C and S, you have been so kind and you have poured your heart out to our audience and we stand with you and the rest of the victim's families. Thank you all and we continue to pray for you guys. Thank you so much for joining me tonight.
Here's the transcript
 
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