ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[positive]

I am by no means a criminologist but if the grudge was against ‘the house’ (either due to not being admitted to a party, or jealousy of young good-looking kids or whatever) with no specific target then arson would seem the obvious way to exact revenge. I’m thinking of the Childers Backpacker Hostel murders over in Aus but I am sure there are many other examples.

The method used here, leaving behind lots of messy evidence, needing lots of planning, and the risk of other occupants waking as you take out multiple people one-by-one, seems like something else. I’m not sure what but possibly only one intended victim and the rest were collateral damage?

As I say I am just an amateur but keen to hear other people’s thoughts.

In my opinion the killer "knew" the victims. Thats not to say any of the victims knew the killer, if you can follow my drift. The fact of the method of death says to me that it was personal. Again, not to say the victims were or were not acquainted with the perpetrator.
The perp DEFINITELY knew them. I believe the killer spent at least 20 min in the house. Probably more. I also believe this was planned but not some months long stalking type of event. Definitely not spur of the moment tho.
I do not believe the killer has any injuries from his own weapon. I believe the killer had a ski mask type covering and gloves. I don't believe he left DNA behind after the act. (Mouth and hands and hair covered. Did not slip on the knife due to its design so not bleeding)
I think its possible that he wore a tyvek type painters suit also. I also think he had other weapons. All is just my opinion of course.

 

[amymarie]

Hello, I was reading through the Moscow, ID police daily logs. You can find them published publish here: MPD Press Log 11/18/2022

Icame across a suspicious person report of a male on the 18th November 2022 report.

22-M10080 Suspicious Person/Circumstance

Incident Address: 1100 blk KING RD

MOSCOW ID 83843

Disposition: ACT

Time Reported: 13:31

Cad Comments:
There is a male at the Rp's address who is knocking, asking to come inside, and is refusing to leave. Officers responded and subject warned for conduct.

What I find intriguing is the incident address 1100 blk KING RD. This is literally a stones throw away from this case. Does anyone know any more about this?

Considering this was after the attack, I would assume it’s a nosey reporter harrassing a neighbor

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I have seen some good recent posts about the behavior of dogs whose owners are being attacked. However, I think anyone who's still questioning that it's possible for a dog to be quiet/not alert the other roommates in a scenario like that should watch this video:

Many dogs do not have it in their temperament to fight back and be aggressive with an intruder. Just a personal annecdote, but as a runner I have been chased by quite a few territorial strays and loose dogs who have run at me barking and growling. All I've ever had to do is pretend to throw something at them and every single one has run away.

I think that the intruder merely had to aggressively move at the dog or possible kick him to get him to leave him alone. I would bet that he cowered or hid during the attacks, maybe letting out only one or two initial barks before being scared into silence.

Spot on. My dog NEVER barks unless I leave him alone in the apartment. Then he barks and I only know because I have an alexa app that sends a notification to my phone. If someone attacked me, he probably would just lie down. If a stranger walked in my apartment, he'd probably jump on them and lick them. He cries when he sees other dogs. I just don't think he has that aggressive temperament and it's definitely not hard for me to imagine another dog not being aggressive. Could be a rescue. Mine is and he is timid and scared still at random things, and we've had him in a loving home for 2.5 years. JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Interesting theory. What do you think is the overall motivation?

I think what you describe is quite possible, this is what I’ve thought.
The only issue is how in the presser they describe a surviving roommate as ‘seeing’ a roommate that did not respond- and a friend called 911 from their phone.

Did they ’see a roommate’ meaning a female roommate- X, M, or K?
Or did they see E and LE is describing him as a roommate?

JMO

 

[layer]

But we do not know this for a fact, correct? There is no confirmation of whose bedroom’s are where, who exactly was found where.

Correct

 

[white rabbit]

Officer responded... If this was the killer that would be devastating to know in hindsight

right? "hiding in plain sight" perhaps? some killers like to revisit/observe all the activity his/her crime has generated.
idk. probably nothing but if i were LE...just sayin'...

 

[gliving]

I wish Buddy the Aussie could have his own thread. It's almost too much reading about the four murders and then to read about the poor little pup.
Taking a break, back later.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think the toughest issue to be reconciled is the motive in this case. The murders were not seemingly sexually motivated and nothing was stolen. If it was a crime of passion against an individual, and the majority of victims were killed in their beds, why would the killer stray so far from the intended victim to kill three others? If it was a random attack, is it just the killer's "bad luck" that so many people were in the house? It seems to me that the sorority itself was the intended target and that the killer or killers didn't know about the basement rooms and surviving roommates.

Could be a thrill kill, copycat kinda thing. Mentioned already in this thread... there's Manson, Bundy and possibly Douglas Garland (here in Canada although his was targeted but a 5yr old boy was collateral damage and crime was well prepared with meticulous planning) vibes if random and thrill kill.

 

[amymarie]

I think the toughest issue to be reconciled is the motive in this case. The murders were not seemingly sexually motivated and nothing was stolen. If it was a crime of passion against an individual, and the majority of victims were killed in their beds, why would the killer stray so far from the intended victim to kill three others? If it was a random attack, is it just the killer's "bad luck" that so many people were in the house? It seems to me that the sorority itself was the intended target and that the killer or killers didn't know about the basement rooms and surviving roommates.

The girls are in different sororities so I personally don’t think this is targeted towards a sorority. Someone with that motive would have attacked the sorority house itself.

 

[AneutherSleuther]

If the attack was random and LE genuinely have no idea who did it or why, why would the shelter in place be lifted so quickly and why were they so quick to state there was no danger to the wider community. That strongly implies they know who did it and why.

I know they are now backtracking on the above but maybe that is for ‘show’.

 

[mrsdue]

If they knew the entire house why did they leave two girls alive in a basement portion? You're a killer who knows who lives there and you've just made some identifiable enough amount of noise and you DO NOT go check to see if there were witnesses left in the basement who peeked out or called police?

Leaving two people alive smells to me like someone who didn't know that house, didn't know the bottom-most level was also a roommate floor.

Or, leaving two people alive could be what makes police believe this was targeted. JMO

 

[jitterbugperfume]

Do you think they have a lot of forensic evidence testing back yet? Like DNA testing? I think the FBI is assisting with that in West Virginia? It seems like it would take longer to get most of the testing back from the lab which could help explain why the arrest is taking so long. Am I incorrect in this assumption?

 

[BeSweets]

MPD Press Log 11/13/2022

www.ci.moscow.id.us

and this one, from the night (edited -night after the murders). "suspicious person" basically at the end of taylor drive (very close to king/queen roads)

Male standing near bike rack looked like he was trying to hide. 20:55
Area checked. Officers responded. No report.

Great sleuthing.

@wnk @AngTxGal I see you two on — Should I add these to the media link in case anyone wants to research?

Thank you White Rabbit

 

[FruitTingles]

Officer responded... If this was the killer that would be devastating to know in hindsight

Hopefully LE have looked in to it to establish if there could be a link or not, and if the responding officer saw said person; hopefully they remember what they looked like, what they were wearing etc. JMO

 

[Trino]

Bottom line is it doesn't matter how this person got inside, where the victims were found, who called 911. Those are details. What really matters is a focus on the killer, why this weapon was used, a profile of the killer, and the psychological mindset that would enable someone to do this. Mass murderers usually have a poor background, feelings of persecution, anger, resentment, isolation, domestic violence. If you're local, look around, think about a person you may have encountered that fits.

 

[Dotta]

Re the poor skinned dog

Sure, it might be not connected, but...

Maybe the perp was "practising" his knife wielding abilities on animals.
And for some time, it might have curbed his sick urges.

But then, as frustration grew, he finally decided to kill people.

I mean, what a coincidence.

Moo

 

[208alum]

AFAIK, this iconic house is rented out as a house for roommates, not individual bedrooms in a house. Not to say the PM doesn’t allow subs if roommates bail, but it would all be through the PM company. They don’t care about how the rent is split amongst roommates - just that the full amount is paid every month. Unlike some apartments that will lock bedroom doors off if someone needs a 1 or 2 bedroom when only 3 are available, that doesn’t happen with this house.

No rooms listed as available, nor is the property available.

I know y’all know much more than me (I’ve tried to keep up), but I’m unsure where the idea that K had moved out comes from? She was a senior, yes? And graduation isn’t until 12/10 - seems odd she would move out before graduation festivities, although certainly she might have planned to start moving some things home this week during fall break. Her family home is 90 miles or so from here & kids run home all the time for long weekends, etc, when home is that close.

JMHO having lived in this college town for decades.

I am an alum of the University of Idaho. From what I have read and remember of students during my time, graduating early isn't all that strange which is where K moving out comes from.

Kaylee was planning on graduating in winter 2022 (classes conclude for the year in December) but she probably had finished all her requirements early so she had no more reason to be at U of I and knew she could be moved back home by Thanksgiving Break. Remember she had a job in Texas lined up for Feb. and plans to travel to Europe in January. Her parents made it seem like she had already moved out of the house in Moscow and moved back home to CDA, ID with her family but had just gone back to Moscow only to show Maddie her new car.

If that is true about K being moved out, I think it makes sense that Kaylee was sleeping in Maddie's bed with her.

 

[William Goat]

I see a lot of people tying this to the mutilation/killing of the dog and rabbit. Isn't this something that is normally done in the teenage years? Seems like in every serial killer case I have watched this has been the case. Unless a teenager committed these murders (which I don't believe they did) this is why I don't believe the crimes are connected.


MOO

 

[NickoD]

If the attack was random and LE genuinely have no idea who did it or why, why would the shelter in place be lifted so quickly and why were they so quick to state there was no danger to the wider community. That strongly implies they know who did it and why.

I know they are now backtracking on the above but maybe that is for ‘show’.

In my opinion, I think that perhaps the police initially thought it was someone connected to the victims. That prompted the "don't worry" presser to calm the community down. But once the initial suspects were starting to be cleared by evidence the police realized this was not as clear cut and had to revise their advisory.

MOO

 

[Hexe]

I see a lot of people tying this to the mutilation/killing of the dog and rabbit. Isn't this something that is normally done in the teenage years?

Skinning animals alive? Good Lord, no!