ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 8

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ADMIN NOTE:

As Kaylee's parents said she was "a websleuth", we don't know if they meant she was an actual WSer or if it was used in a more generic sense.

If any member or guest reading here knows that Kaylee was in fact a Websleuths member, and her user ID, please send me a private message to advise. Tricia has asked me to find out as she would like to send flowers or make a donation to something in Kaylee's name.

Thank you.
 
Please read The Rules (linked in my signature), and continue discussion here.

Also, for anyone other than victims or an officially named POI/suspect, use initials or your post will be removed.

No sleuthing or insinuations/accusations against anyone who is not officially named a POI/suspect by LE.
 
TIMELINE LINK for the new thread
Updated earlier today; also available in the media thread

***UPDATED NOV 21, NEW INFO IN RED***

VICTIMS:
EC = Ethan Chapin [IG / FB], a 20-year-old from Conway, Washington [1]; freshman, member of Sigma Chi fraternity majoring in recreation, sport and tourism management in the College of Education, Health and Human Sciences. [7]; school indicates hometown was Mount Vernon, WA [9]; one of triplets that all attended UofI[36]; staying overnight with his girlfriend XK [39][59] ("lived with" XK according to XK's family [56])
FAMILY INTERVIEW: NOV 15

XK = Xana Kernodle [IG / TikTok / FB], 20, from Avondale, Arizona [1]; junior from Post Falls majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; dating EC, worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]

MM = Madison Mogen [IG / TikTok / FB], a 21-year-old from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in marketing in the College of Business and Economics, member of the Pi Beta Phi sorority [7]; worked as server at Mad Greek restaurant [36]; planned to move to Boise after graduation in spring [53]
FAMILY has asked Goncalves family to speak on their behalf [63@2:45]

KG = Kaylee Goncalves [IG / TikTok / FB], 21, from Rathdrum, Idaho [1]; senior majoring in general studies in the College of Letters, Arts and Social Sciences, member of the Alpha Phi sorority [7]; middle of five children, owner of a dog named Murphy [31], was going to start a new tech job in TX in Jan
(Feb [63])[36]; had recently purchased a 2016 Range Rover; planned to travel to Europe next year (in January [63])[53]
FAMILY INTERVIEWS: NOV 15 | NOV 16 | NOV 19 | NOV 20 (transcribed by @Allabouttrial HERE)

SURVIVING ROOMMATES: BF & DM


ZILLOW DESCRIPTION/PICS OF RESIDENCE

RESIDENCE PICS FROM MEDIA:
View attachment 380501
View attachment 380502
View attachment 381534

LAYOUT BY @Garshin HERE
View attachment 381510 View attachment 381511 View attachment 381512

MAP OF AREA provided by MOSCOW PD
View attachment 381514

TIMELINE

~LATE 2021 ("about a year, give or take")

EC and XK begin relationship [56]

AUG 16
MM posts a "meet the roommates" image on IG [12]

AUG 22
MM posts a "first day of school" image on IG [11]

SEP 12
POSSIBLY UNRELATED: man threatened students on UofI campus with a knife [35]; students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47]

~SEP
KG supposedly complained to a friend about a stalker [62]


OCT 21
POSSIBLY UNREALTED: Moscow resident's mini Australian shepherd discovered killed and skinned shortly after 2AM; skinned rabbit had been found days prior [64]

OCT 29
XK's final IG post, wishing EC a happy birthday [13]

~EARLY NOV ("about a week and a half)
  • KG had been home with family [63@4:15]
F NOV 11
  • MM's final IG post [10]
  • KG returns to campus for the weekend to show off her new vehicle [63@4:45]
  • KG's final texts with her sister [31]
Sa NOV 12
  • ~3PM - KG's final phone call with mother - intended to return home on Tuesday [63@5:30]
  • KG's final IG post w roommates [15]
  • EC attends a dance at his sister's sorority as her date; his other triplet brother went with his sister's roommate [53]
  • PM - neighbors hear loud music from somewhere "in the neighborhood"; did NOT hear screaming or gunshots [33]
  • PM - neighbors report "hearing noise from the house Saturday evening but said it sounded like a party rather than an altercation." [40]; Rumor debunked: Moscow PD states there is no indication of party at the residence [47]
  • 8PM-9PM - EC & XK attend party at Sigma Chi house (735 Nez Perce Dr [59])[58]
  • 10PM - 1:30AM - MM & KG at The Corner Club bar downtown [58]; took an Uber to get there [43@0:45]
  • ~12PM - XK last contact with family [56]

Su NOV 13 - DEATH OF VICTIMS, BODIES DISCOVERED
day 1 of investigation at residence

  • 1AM - surviving roommates BF & DM each arrive home from separate locations [58]
  • 1:33AM - 1:53AM [41] - MM & KG seen on Twitch video from Grub Truck food truck [38] located at 318 S. Main Street [58], where they order pasta; manager states they were "slightly intoxicated" [41] - VIDEO from Gray Hughes Investigates
  • ~1:45AM - EC & XK arrived home from Sigma Chi party [47]
  • after 1:45AM (1:59AM, according to KG's family [63@1:23]) - MM & KG arrived home from a bar [47]; MM & KG took Uber (or "private party" [58]) home, let dog out, locked house up [43@0:45]
  • ISP stated (cf Nov 17) that they believe suspect came in through sliding glass door [55]
  • 2:26AM-2:44AM - KG phones "Jack" six times [58] (family clarifies that "Jack" is KG's exbf, KG had wanted Jack to come over, family does not believe he is involved, that they were going to get back together [63@7:30])
  • 2:44AM-252AM - MM phones KG's "Jack" three times [58]
  • 2:52AM - KG phones "Jack" a final time [58]
  • 2AM-5AM - updated estimated TIME OF DEATH [58] (3AM-4AM - estimated time of death [9])
  • EC's mother states that "roommates heard something" but did not get into details [58]
  • [TIME?] - BODIES DISCOVERED - a surviving roommate summoned friends to residence bc they "believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up" [61]; according to EC's mother, bodies were found by "a friend" [32] who does not live in the house [39]
  • 11:58AM [20] - 911 CALL - LE respond to "a report of an unconscious person" (later verified to be one of the deceased [30]); multiple people spoke with dispatch before LE arrival [61]
  • [TIME?] - FIRST RESPONDERS ARRIVE - First responders "discovered four individuals who were deceased" [20] - EC was found on floor of second level [36]; two victims found on 2nd floor; two on 3rd floor [60@5:29]; officers describe a bloody crime scene, "especially on upper floors of the house" [37]; fire and EMS were also on scene but did not go into residence or transport anyone out[1]
  • ~12PM - coroner informed of 4 homicides [45@0:15]
  • 2:16 PM - UofI FB post advises students to shelter in place due to investigation of homicide on King St [3]
  • 2:51 PM - UofI FB post lifts shelter-in-place, states that LE are still investigating death of 4 people but do not believe there is an active threat [4]
  • ~5PM - 5:30PM - coroner arrives on scene [45@0:30]
  • 5:25PM - UofI FB post states that LE is still investigating, but there is no ongoing threat [5]
  • 9:17 PM - University president posts on FB about deaths, cancels class for M Nov 14, offers counseling resources [6]
  • PM - neighbors state they saw police, "group of women crying while draped in emergency blankets" [33]

M NOV 14 - DECLARED A HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION
day 2 of investigation at residence

  • online and in-person classes at University canceled [1]

  • [TIME?] LE questioned manager of Moscow Building Supply about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, which they do not [44]
  • 12:50 PM - MSM reports that 4 students found dead near campus [1]
  • 12:21 PM - UofI FB posts identities of victims [7], states "Moscow police do not believe there is an ongoing community risk based on information gathered during the preliminary investigation" [8]
  • 1:31 PM - search dogs at scene [29]
  • 1:49 PM - MSM reports that it is being treated as homicide investigation [2]
  • PM - Rumor debunked: LE verifies that none of the deceased students are believed to be responsible for the deaths. [9], Rumor debunked: county coroner verifies it was NOT a murder-suicide [17]
  • 5:56PM - Mayor refuses to confirm NYT's "crime of passion" description [21], states it is one possibility [32]
  • PM - media tries to canvas neighbors, who decline to make a comment, "most" stating that they didn't really know the victims; state that police had previously canvassed neighborhood as well [32]

Tu NOV 15 - PRELIMINARY CAUSE OF DEATH RELEASED: STABBING
day 3 of investigation at residence

  • Moscow PD release statement - "Evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack." [16]
  • Some students, feeling unsafe, leave early for Thanksgiving break [18]
  • Coroner calls the scene "gruesome" [34] (comment possibly taken out of context[see 45@3:45]); does not believe toxicology report will be relevant [45@3:00]; did not know timeframe of death [45@3:00]; declines to comment on where bodies were found [45@4:20]
  • DailyMail (TABLOID) posts image they claim is blood "oozing" out of residence; state that scene was "the worst [police] had ever seen; "there was blood everywhere;" "have never seen anything like this"; trash taken to garbage depot [36]
  • KG's family interview states that door had a keypad code [42@1:45]

  • 8:36AM - vigil postponed until after Thanksgiving [28] - cf W Nov 16
  • 11:24AM - LE press release states they are still searching for "an edged weapon such as a knife" that was used in attack [27]
  • 2:07PM - LE stop garbage truck from leaving residence, as they have not recovered weapon [26]
  • 2:40PM - bodies in Spokane County, autopsies to take place on Wed; preliminary findings show stabbing as cause of death; "a lot of blood;" [25] Rumor debunked: no indication of substance use [25]
  • 4:25PM - confirmed that FBI is working with local LE [19]
  • 6:36PM - county prosecutor states there is a sealed warrant issued at residence; "a handful of other warrants" in the works [24]
  • 7:11PM - Families of MM & KG release statement calling for justice [23]

W NOV 16 - PRESS CONFERENCE
day 4 of investigation at residence

  • AM - Video shared online of MM & KG at Grub Truck food truck [38] - cf Su NOV 13
  • Parents speak out against LE & school for "lack of information [40]
  • Manager of Moscow Building Supply states that LE questioned them "more than once" about whether they carry KA-BAR knives, including on M Nov 14; he states they do not [44] - cf M NOV 14

  • 3:30PM - news conference planned by ISP & Moscow PD [22] - transcribed by @Allabouttrial HERE
    • Moscow PD chief speaks
      • victims arrived home after 1:45 AM from party (EC & XK) and bar (MM & KG) [47] - cf Su Nov 13
      • no sign of forced entry - no damage to anything; door was open when LE arrived [47]
      • autopsies taking place today [47]
      • reviewing crime scene evidence, video, etc [47]
      • do not have a suspect, weapon, or clothing of suspect at this time - cannot say there is no threat to community [47]
      • Rumor debunked: no indication of party at the residence [47] - cf Sa Nov 12
      • there were ("we believe 2") other people (roommates) home at the time of the attack; was not a hostage situation and were not injured; they were present at residence when LE arrived; declines to comment on what they have stated [47]
      • declines to comment on who the 911 caller was [47]
      • has not identified anything missing/stolen from the residence [47]
      • declines to comment on location of bodies within the residence [47]
      • Sep 12 incident - students were walking to Greek Row, non-student flashed a knife to threaten students, turned self into law enforcement; cannot say whether it is connected [47] - cf Sep 12
  • 5PM - vigil held in Coeur d' Alene, ID [46]
  • 5PM - vigil planned on University's Administration Lawn [9] - vigil postponed as of T NOV 15 [28] rescheduled to NOV 30 [34]

TH NOV 17 - AUTOPSY PERFORMED & CAUSE AND MANNER OF DEATH CONFIRMED
day 5 of investigation at residence

  • Rumor debunked: KTVB reporter verifies that there have been no record of KG calling police between Jan1-Nov13 [48]
  • ISP patrolling near Moscow schools Th & Fri; "no need to be alarmed" [49]
  • increased LE activity noted at residence; increased number of tips coming in [50]; LE confirms they are canvassing area for fixed-blade weapon purchases [48]
  • phones of victims still being held as evidence [53]
  • KG's dog Murphy has been returned to secondary owner [54]
  • ISP stated that they believe suspect came in through sliding glass door [55] - cf Su Nov 13
  • [TIME?] autopsies completed and bodies released to victims' families [51]
  • PM - coroner's report released confirming official cause of death: homicide-murder / manner of death: stabbing with "large knife"; DNA samples (including those on "bedding") still being tested; some wounds may have been defensive [52] - cf [56 & 57]
  • PM - family states XK had "bruises, torn by the knife" that would indicate that she fought back [56] - cf [52 & 57]
  • PM - other source cites same coroner stating that "They have not yet determined whether there were defensive wounds"; each victim stabbed multiple times; no indication of sexual assault [57] - cf [52 & 56]

F NOV 18
  • Moscow PD press release
    • states that four victims were "likely asleep" at time of attack; some had defensive wounds [59]
    • Rumor debunked: LE do not believe man at Grub Hub truck is involved [59]
    • Rumor debunked: LE do not believe surviving roommates are involved [59]
    • Rumor debunked: victims were not tied or gagged [59]
    • no suspects in custody, no weapon found [59]

Sa NOV 19

Su NOV 20

  • 3PM - Moscow PD press conference - transcribed by @Allabouttrial HERE
    • received 646 tips, done over 90 interviews [60@1:40]
    • 911 call originated within residence from a surviving roommate's phone [60@5:19]
    • two victims found on 2nd floor; two on 3rd floor [60@5:29]
    • Rumor debunked: LE do not believe the "private party" who drove MM & KG home is involved [60@7:20]
    • Rumor debunked: LE do not believe the 911 caller is involved [60@19:07]
    • LE seized contents of three dumpsters on King St but did not find anything of note [60@8:15]
    • LE verifies that 911 caller was one of roommates' "other friends that had arrived at the location; not sure how many of these other friends were there [60@21:00]
    • no suspects in custody, no weapon found [60@8:40]
  • 8PM - Moscow police release social media update stating on S Nov 13, a surviving roommate summoned friends to residence bc they "believed one of the second-floor victims had passed out and was not waking up" [61] - cf S NOV 13
  • KG's family states in interview that "this person was sloppy... he made a mess" [63@1:15]
  • KG & MM's families met together [63@6:30]
  • DailyMail (TABLOID) reports on attack on dog Oct 21 near university campus [64] - cf Oct 21

SOURCES:
[1] 4 University of Idaho students found dead near campus - 6ABC - Nov 14
[2] Four university students found dead near campus - MirrorUK - Nov 14
[3] UofI FB - Nov 13
[4] UofI FB - Nov 13
[5] UofI FB - Nov 13
[6] UofI FB - Nov 13
[7] UofI FB - Nov 14
[8] UofI FB - Nov 14
[9] 4 Slain University of Idaho students are victims - ElkoDaily - Nov 14
[10] MM Instagram - Nov 11
[11] MM Instagram - Aug 22
[12] MM Instagram - Aug 16
[13] XK Instagram - Oct 29
[14] EC Instagram - May 13
[15] KG Instagram - Nov 12
[16] Moscow PD - Nov 15
[17] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 14
[18] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[19] @NickAtNews (NYT) tweet - Nov 15
[20] Four university of Idaho Students discovered dead - Law&Crime - Nov 15
[21] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 14
[22] @AndrewBaertlein (KTVB) tweet - Nov 16
[23] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[24] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[25] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[26] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[27] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet THREAD - Nov 15
[28] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 15
[29] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 14
[30] @dugganreports (KTVB) tweet - Nov 15
[31] Family of alleged Moscow homicide victim remembers - Nov 14
[32] Suspect sought in U of I deaths - Idaho Statesman - Nov 15
[33] Four U of I students died in senseless act of violence - LM Tribute - Nov 14
[34] Homicide investigation underway - KHQ - Nov 15
[35] Man reportedly threatened students with knife - ISJ - Sep 15
[36] Blood oozes through walls of home - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 15
[37] University of Idaho homicide victims - FoxNews - Nov 15
[38] @johnwebbtv (KHQ-TV) - Nov 16
[39] 4 Idaho students killed in 'targeted attack' - ABCNews - Nov 16
[40] Slain university of Idaho victims' parents frustrated - ABCNews - Nov 16
[41] Chilling video shows 2 of the 4 - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 16
[42] Extended interview with the family of Kaylee Goncalves VIDEO - KHQ - Nov 15
[43] Idaho College Students murdered in 'Crime of Passion' VIDEO - Inside Edition - Nov 16
[44] Police investigation narrows to search for combat-style knife - Idaho Statesman - Nov 16
[45] Latah County Coroner says all four students killed near University of Idaho were victims - KREM - Nov 15
[46] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 16
[47] Moscow Police Dept Press Conference - Nov 16
[48] @dugganreports (KTVB) tweet THREAD - Nov 17
[49] @AbbyDavisKTVB tweet - Nov 17
[50] @esterbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 17
[51] Mystery surrounds stabbing deaths - WTOP - Nov 17
[52] Autopsies confirm cause of death for UofI students - DNews.com - Nov 17
[53] Slain Idaho students leave behind bright memories... - AP News - Nov 17
[54] @KREMAmandaRoley tweet - Nov 17
[55] @KREMAmandaRoley tweet - Nov 17
[56] She's a tough kid... - AZFamily - Nov 17
[57] @estherbower_TV (KXLY) tweet - Nov 17
[58] A timeline of events - Idaho Statesman - Nov 20
[59] Moscow PD FB - Nov 18
[60] Moscow PD press conference - YouTube VIDEO - Nov 20
[61] Moscow PD FB - Nov 20
[62] Victim reportedly spoke of stalker - Inside Edition - Nov 18
[63] Family of Moscow homicide victim continues to speak out VIDEO - KHQ - Nov 19
[64] Woman who lives near scene of Idaho murders... - DailyMail (TABLOID) - Nov 20
 
The killer was looking for one of the blondes, knew where she lived but not where she slept. Went from room to room looking for her until he found her. Why the blondes? because he would have bounced after killing the couple, which of girl had dark hair. I believe they slept on the 2nd floor? He found his victims on the 3rd floor so he didn't bother with the two other girls in the basement.

killer is probably one of her followers on social media and followed their updates. he semi planned this out because he knew how to get in the house without breaking any windows or doors.

I doubt its the ex bf as he wanted to kill his ex, he would have just done it when they were alone together.
 
Last edited:
''Officials have said that they do not have a murder weapon or a suspect in custody, warning the town of about 25,000 to remain "vigilant."

''The entrance to the back of the house is on the second level, and opens up to a parking lot and forested area, which was blocked off by police tape on Monday. ''
1669067938383.png
Investigators cordoned off the parking lot and a forested area behind the home in Moscow, Idaho. (Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)
1669067991461.png
Investigators are seen searching a parking lot area behind the house in Moscow, Idaho Monday, November 21, 2022, where four people were slain on November 13. (Derek Shook for Fox News Digital)
1669067775779.png
 
There are questions at the end of the last thread regarding which floor is which. There are three floors in the house. The second floor would be considered the main floor, since the kitchen, living, dining spaces are on that floor. There is no basement. From the front of the house, we see three floors. From the back of the house, we see two.

I have added labels to the front and side of the house as: first, second and third, so we can share a common language when discussing the floors. If the floors should have different labels, such as parking floor, main floor and upstairs floor, I'll be happy to make that change.

1669068396442.png

1669068453281.png
1669068611836.png

1669068625834.png

This map shows the property boundary (red line). The blue lines are elevation lines. Each line represents a 10 foot increase in elevation. We can see that there is a 30-40 foot difference in elevation from the front of the property to the raod/parking behind the property. It would be easy for someone to sit in the trees at the back of the property and look directly into the windows at the back of the house.

1669068809596.png
 
Actually, John Webb says that Captain Anderson said not connected. ;) I have seen so many times that someone interpreted someone else's words X way and put their own interpretation on the words. Not picking on you, diggndeeprstill, your post was just handy.

I admit, I try to be pretty literal in these situations, only because I have my own experience (as others here do) with words being used a specific way on a case for a reason, and Media twisting those words to mean what they want it to mean or what would sell a story. I acknowledge that Captain Anderson might have said this. Or might have said "We have no connection at this time" and that became "No connection" to John Webb.

By the time we get to the second "so and so said such and such", the original words aren't usually being used, and even those original words are sometimes a bit nebulous. "Likely asleep" when attacked becomes "Asleep when attacked" by someone' s interpretation. Not the same thing. Found in Beds is not the same as found in their OWN beds. What if three people were found in one bed? For whatever reason. What if some were found in beds? If the question didn't ask "were they ALL found in their own beds?" and the answer wasn't "All were found in their own beds." there is room for differing possibilities.

Yes, it matters sometimes. In my own experience, it matters a LOT (the words and how they were used were EVERYTHING). In this case, it might or might not matter. Just don't rule it out or rely on any one news source IMO.
 
There are two possibilities.
Killer had some kind of vendetta against the whole house. A possible neighbor that hated them having loud parties all the time. I
Neighbors are all college kids who party together based on comments from folks from the area. I don't think there's a middle-aged person shouting "get off my lawn!" in the neighborhood. Given its proximity to UI, that half of the city is college kids and the other half are permanent residents.
 
New member here. I've been reading the posts for awhile, and decided to join. This is such a heartbreaking and puzzling crime. I've read some of the posts on the forum regarding K's dog... I can't remember where I read it, it was a few days ago, but I'd read that the pup ended up at the local humane shelter, although I am not sure how accurate that may be. As brutal at these murders were, and with nothing left behind (or so it seems, so far), I have a feeling it could be an ex-military person responsible, they seemed to know what they were doing.
 
There are questions at the end of the last thread regarding which floor is which. There are three floors in the house. The second floor would be considered the main floor, since the kitchen, living, dining spaces are on that floor. There is no basement. From the front of the house, we see three floors. From the back of the house, we see two.

I have added labels to the front and side of the house as: first, second and third, so we can share a common language when discussing the floors. If the floors should have different labels, such as parking floor, main floor and upstairs floor, I'll be happy to make that change.

View attachment 381613

View attachment 381615
View attachment 381617

View attachment 381618
This is fantastic. Great work. Makes it visually easy to see how a killer could murder the four victims and the two survivors wouldn't hear anything, especially if they were in locked bedrooms sleeping. I can also if EC made it out of the bedroom into the hallway how you could see him and think he's unconscious which prompted the 911 call.

Is the blue line from the vacant bedroom mean it's possible one of the victims was killed in there? I would assume that EC/XK slept in the same bed, but I guess we don't know that 100%.
 
New member here. I've been reading the posts for awhile, and decided to join. This is such a heartbreaking and puzzling crime. I've read some of the posts on the forum regarding K's dog... I can't remember where I read it, it was a few days ago, but I'd read that the pup ended up at the local humane shelter, although I am not sure how accurate that may be. As brutal at these murders were, and with nothing left behind (or so it seems, so far), I have a feeling it could be an ex-military person responsible, they seemed to know what they were doing.
Welcome to Websleuths!!
 
M.O.O.....

I get how enormous a task this is for LE. Multiple murders and multiple locations need to be cataloged. That takes time.

I also understand them being hesitant to release any information that might aid the killer.

But....

They also have an obligation to the community. People need to know what they are dealing with so they can protect themselves. Keeping everyone completely in the dark is not fair to them.
 
This may have been said since there is no way to read through all of the comments, but has anyone else considered that EC & XK were already dead when KG & MM got home? Their calls to J could have been panicked emergency calls. The killer could have still been in the house and killed them as well. JMO
 
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