ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 9

[Seattle1]

MSN

11/22/22

[..]

Jim Clemente, a retired FBI supervisory special agent and criminal behavioral analysis expert, told Fox News Digital on Tuesday that the killer likely knew the victims or was a stalker familiar with their habits.

"Going into an occupied dwelling with six people in … different rooms in the middle of the night is an extremely high-risk crime, unless he knows one or more of the people," Clemente told Fox News Digital. "So, that is my first thought on it: this offender did not just randomly choose this location, that he targeted one or more of the people in there. Now, that could be because he has a relationship or a past relationship with one or more of them, or it could be that he's been stalking one or more of them."

[..]

Police also confirmed Tuesday that the weapon used in the attacks was a "fix-blade knife." A medical examiner determined during an autopsy last week that all four victims were stabbed multiple times and some had defensive wounds.



General views of the house on November 16, 2002, where four students of the University of Idaho were murdered show red stains running down the foundation of the house in Moscow, Idaho. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital© Derek Shook for Fox News Digital

ETA: Noting the latest or 11/22/22 MSM has ceased labeling the red streaks on the foundation as blood but now references these as "red stains."

 

[diggndeeperstill]

A reminder, per the NYT (paywalled) article:

Investigators have yet to identify a suspect. They have, however, preliminarily ruled out several people, including:

• A man seen with Ms. Goncalves and Ms. Mogen in the video footage at the food truck.
• The man who gave Ms. Goncalves and Ms. Mogen a ride home.
• The two surviving housemates, who were in the house during the attack.
• The friends who were called to the house by the surviving housemates the morning after the attacks.
• Mr. DuCoeur, the former boyfriend of one victim.
• The victims themselves.

link

Sorry but that differs from the official site.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

1. Who is NOT believed to be involved?

• Two surviving roommates,
• Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
• Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th, or
• None of the individuals at the residence when 911 was called

So JD is cleared??

Yes, per LE.

1. Who & what information can I trust?

We encourage the community to rely on official channels for the most accurate information.

• City of Moscow News Releases
• Moscow Police Department Facebook

So- I’ll choose to believe the official site and NOT the NYT.

 

[isabella88]

JMO MOO

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

LE said the skinned dog is not related to the murders. King Street Homicide | Moscow, ID

 

[lab.tx]

It isn't, IMO, stated in exactly that way on the Moscow PD website -- see Frequently Asked Questions>Who is NOT believed to be involved

Unless, as a keen commentator pointed out, they were present at the time of the 911 call, was the male in the Grub Truck surveillance video, or was the third-party ride home. I thought the calls themselves were followed up on and cleared as having a connection, it leaves some room for clarification, in my opinion only. Certainly others feel differently about that, which totally makes sense (to me).

I anticipate someone asking again tomorrow and that it gets updated or addressed a little more clearly. I would personally be asking for that, maybe, but then again even being included as considered might be really tough too. No accusations of wrongdoing upon anyone here. MOO.

"Reporter - The male subject whom the women called - Has he been ruled out as a suspect or person of interest?

Chief - Everything that we have taken from those calls we have followed up on, we've cleared and we believe that there's no connection there."

I really liked how you simplified it so clearly as to being a possible other reason he (JD) is not being referenced but the phone calls have. Thank You!!

 

[AngTxGal]

Honestly, I don’t understand what this says. Can somebody tell it like I’m 5?

It appears LE looked into it and could not find the guy. “Unfounded”
So…
I interpret that as they do not believe the women, or want to play it down. Why do I think this… they did not give out a description so the public could help in finding the person.
My thoughts…
Wow, I would be livid. LE isn’t doing well in the PR department, why on earth would they give the impression they are blowing off concerns from the public regarding males doing creepy things?
JMO

 

[emilysssssss]

My opinion about the murder weapon, the knife. Police are looking for it of course. My opinion is they won't find it until they find the perp(s).
It's his TROPHY.

This!

 

[JSTANOVICE]

Snipped for focus.

Thank you for posting this. And for posting this as a verified physician. I am not a clinician but I am a social/behavioral researcher and the research consistently shows that people with mental health conditions are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators of violence. Risk factors that can be associated with violent behaviors? Domestic violence, alcohol and drug related offenses, adverse childhood experiences, financial strain, and impulse control issues among others.

I Would Think, Stalking, Sensitivity Or Unable To except Rejection, IE being spurned by a person you’re infatuated with Would fall under or close To impulse control, And set A person Off, I’m 60 yrs old and after a long marriage did My share Of dating And Had Been on receiving end As well as rejecting And believe Me it’s more common than We think, The difference Is Some can accept Rejection Move On And Some just Can’t And A small percentage resort To Harrasnent stalking even violence And believe Me women have It Too, I still Think This Is a person that was spurned In someway by One of the victims, im guessing one of the 2 girls working At the restaurant, JMHO

 

[isabella88]

Sorry but that differs from the official site.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

1. Who is NOT believed to be involved?

• Two surviving roommates,
• Male in the Grub Truck surveillance video,
• Private party driver who took Kaylee and Madison home on November 13th, or
• None of the individuals at the residence when 911 was called

1. Who & what information can I trust?

We encourage the community to rely on official channels for the most accurate information.

• City of Moscow News Releases
• Moscow Police Department Facebook

So- I’ll choose to believe the official site and NOT the NYT.

Agreed. He's not off the hook unless he's the guy at the food truck or he was at the house when 911 is called. I would think LE would have said if he was one of those people.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I’ve been thinking about with the police said last night, that they found the dog, “the evening of the incident.”

What a strange thing to say, or strange way to say it.

I think they were trying to send us a message. It’s been bothering me all day.

Then it just hit me. I think the calls were about the dog. I think the killer let the dog outside, then went inside and waited quietly for everybody to come home, and fall asleep. He knew the dog would bark, or defend its mama, so he put Murphy outside.

When K&M got home, they noticed the dog was missing, and immediately called J. Something like, “Murphy is missing! Do you have him?” Or “ I need you to help me find Murphy!” To me, that explains the number of calls in such a short period of time, which seems somewhat frantic.

The dog was out all day. Curled up and slept somewhere until the chaos at home died down a tiny little bit, then he came wandering home that night. He was taken to the animal shelter, and then eventually returned to J.

This is my new theory. The calls were about the dog. The killer had let him out. I believe this is also LE’s thought, as they made such a point to tell us that the dog came home the evening of the murders.

Thoughts?

 

[Diddian]

I thought the same thing! But there are 2 young guys at the bar, one with a frat t-shirt, so maybe it’s a mixed crowd? Kinda weird.

eta. Just saw the local responses on this—seems to def be a mixed crowd at that beloved bar!

There is some information about the bar's history on their website. Established in 1948, it was a bar for locals - particularly men trying to escape from their wives. Over time, became a "blue collar local" hangout during day and college sports bar later in afternoon into evening. In more recent times, college sports bar where some locals still hang out.

Corner Club

14 Draft Beer, Free Shuffleboard, Smoking Porches, & More

moscowcornerclub.com

 

[Curiosa20]

Well he would have blood all over his hands, which means the door would get blood on it as he was leaving…..unless he left the door open when he left. There would be blood drops everywhere, from the knife and his hands.

Maybe so. You’ve made a good point.
Not in reference to your suggestion but in general now, I am distracted and tired of so much repetition here and in the media.
And I am tieed of pondering the why and how of this arrogant monster with no clear information.
I keep thinking he killed quickly on two separate floors. We don’t know what he did to them besides a fatal blow to the upper torso. We don’t know how long he took to kill or mortally wound them but realistically it wouldn’t take more than a few minutes each, especially if they were asleep or barely awakened as the attacks began.. Although others speculate that he wildly slashed , I am not convinced of that.
He could have slipped in and out in under an hour. Or hung out eating their food, playing with the dog. Or washed up and admired himself in a mirror. Who knows what all the thrill or duty entailed.
I just saw a new report. The national average rate of solved murders for 2020, the most recent year available, is only 50%. A coin toss.
A lot needs to change in all dimensions and realms for a safer society.

 

[Diogenetic]

My opinion about the murder weapon, the knife. Police are looking for it of course. My opinion is they won't find it until they find the perp(s).
It's his TROPHY.

It has all appearance of rage killing, not some kind of serial killing. My guess is perp got rid of it. this is 99.9% transport by car country and a whole lot of space. It could be tossed out of a car and never found. We know that many, maybe most of the students went home early and classes cancelled early . NO one can be suspected because they left, even left quickly since people were worried. so investigators have a problem in that a lot of people can't be interviewed.

 

[chuckyinvestigates]

I’ve been thinking about with the police said last night, that they found the dog, “the evening of the incident.”

What a strange thing to say, or strange way to say it.

I think they were trying to send us a message. It’s been bothering me all day.

Then it just hit me. I think the calls were about the dog. I think the killer let the dog outside, then went inside and waited quietly for everybody to come home, and fall asleep. He knew the dog would bark, or defend its mama, so he put Murphy outside.

When K&M got home, they noticed the dog was missing, and immediately called J. Something like, “Murphy is missing! Do you have him?” Or “ I need you to help me find Murphy!” To me, that explains the number of calls in such a short period of time, which seems somewhat frantic.

The dog was out all day. Curled up and slept somewhere until the chaos at home died down a tiny little bit, then he came wandering home that night. He was taken to the animal shelter, and then eventually returned to J.

This is my new theory. The calls were about the dog. The killer had let him out.

Thoughts?

Why would the perp do this?

 

[Neopetsprincess]

I wrote a couple of days ago that I thought whoever committed this crime is probably a psychopathic serial killer. Based on what we know of the manner of the killing. I am worried three other incidents are connected to these murders. These were covered by a YouTuber. Please correct me if I have any facts wrong.

1. The skinned dog. Which happened just 3 miles from the murder scene. A pet dog was let out into the yard and snatched by someone out of the yard and mutilated sadistically. This sadism goes beyond a personal grudge someone may have had about the dog.
2. The dead coyotes and blood placed in front of a fraternity and a sorority in 2017. Again, this goes beyond a college prank.
3. Girls were chased on 11/21 by a man who was laying in wait for them in (maybe their) car, according to a community alert. This seemed to be sourced from a Facebook Community Action group.

I know the police dismissed the notion that the skinned dog was connected to the Moscow murder, but I don't believe they are not considering a connection. Whoever skinned the dog is a rare kind of psychopath, and I find it hard to believe that Moscow has two of them.

And placing dead and bloody coyotes at the frat/sorority might show a deep moral disgust with the hedonism associated with college/frat life.

I am sorry to say, I am worried a serious threat remains out there.

JMO MOO

Hi there!

I’m new here so sorry in advance for any mistakes I make.

LE stated that the last incident with the girl and the man in her car involved no crime and was considered unfounded. They have since closed the case.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I wonder how the dna processing at the lab is prioritized? Anyone have insight there? Maybe that’s all we’re waiting on?

I believe Snell said they were working 24/7 on it so that implies there is a lot of work.

 

[flakesofsnow]

I’ve been thinking about with the police said last night, that they found the dog, “the evening of the incident.”

What a strange thing to say, or strange way to say it.

I think they were trying to send us a message. It’s been bothering me all day.

Then it just hit me. I think the calls were about the dog. I think the killer let the dog outside, then went inside and waited quietly for everybody to come home, and fall asleep. He knew the dog would bark, or defend its mama, so he put Murphy outside.

When K&M got home, they noticed the dog was missing, and immediately called J. Something like, “Murphy is missing! Do you have him?” Or “ I need you to help me find Murphy!” To me, that explains the number of calls in such a short period of time, which seems somewhat frantic.

The dog was out all day. Curled up and slept somewhere until the chaos at home died down a tiny little bit, then he came wandering home that night. He was taken to the animal shelter, and then eventually returned to J.

This is my new theory. The calls were about the dog. The killer had let him out. I believe this is also LE’s thought, as they made such a point to tell us that the dog came home the evening of the murders.

Thoughts?

and the killer let himself in

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Some interesting information from NewsNation tonight

I found that interesting.

The chyron, though - if I was the food truck guy, I wouldn’t be talking to media, either. He might have info vital to the eventual prosecution. Might not.

I hope folks remember that some people don’t want to talk to media, and that’s OK, too. Most of the businesses I know are willing to talk about grief the community has experienced from the horrific murders of 4 bright young adults & the unfathomable loss their loved ones are suffering. But many are uncomfortable speculating & contributing to “rumors.” MOO

 

[JSTANOVICE]

E

Exactly, the dog isn’t even one year old yet.

If Dog was less than A year old Still a puppy could’ve just been an over friendly happy go lucky dog who Wouldn’t bark at anything JMO

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Why would the perp do this?

Out of concern that the dog would bark, or possibly bite, the suspect.

 

[Seattle1]

I wrote a couple of days ago that I thought whoever committed this crime is probably a psychopathic serial killer. Based on what we know of the manner of the killing. I am worried three other incidents are connected to these murders. These were covered by a YouTuber. Please correct me if I have any facts wrong.

1. The skinned dog. Which happened just 3 miles from the murder scene. A pet dog was let out into the yard and snatched by someone out of the yard and mutilated sadistically. This sadism goes beyond a personal grudge someone may have had about the dog.
2. The dead coyotes and blood placed in front of a fraternity and a sorority in 2017. Again, this goes beyond a college prank.
3. Girls were chased on 11/21 by a man who was laying in wait for them in (maybe their) car, according to a community alert. This seemed to be sourced from a Facebook Community Action group.

I know the police dismissed the notion that the skinned dog was connected to the Moscow murder, but I don't believe they are not considering a connection. Whoever skinned the dog is a rare kind of psychopath, and I find it hard to believe that Moscow has two of them.

And placing dead and bloody coyotes at the frat/sorority might show a deep moral disgust with the hedonism associated with college/frat life.

I am sorry to say, I am worried a serious threat remains out there.

JMO MOO

^^bbm

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

From the City/Police link -- "What other rumors are there?"

NEWS RELEASE
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 22, 2022 11:00 A.M.

Contact Rachael Doniger, public information officer, (208) 883-7181

Monday evening Blaine Street Incident Update

Moscow, ID - Just before 5:15 p.m. last night, 911 received a call reporting
suspicious activity in the 600 block of Blaine St. A female caller informed the dispatcher that she saw a male in the front passenger seat of her vehicle when she opened the car door. The female, who was with her sister, slammed the car door and ran screaming from the car and called 911.

Multiple neighbors heard the girls screaming and came to assist. They checked the area but did not find anyone. The neighbors told responding officers that they had not seen anyone in or exit the vehicle. A passerby informed the sisters of seeing a male chasing them and left before speaking with officers. They were unable to confirm these details, and the officer was unaware of this information during the time of the call.

Police checked the area. Officers contacted a male matching the description but learned he and a friend had just returned from a restaurant and the male approached the sisters to help. The male withdrew and waited to talk with officers when accused of being involved.

Based on their knowledge at the time, officers closed the incident as
unfounded. This term is used to close an incident that cannot be initially substantiated. However, if additional information is obtained, the incident can be reopened.

Online reports created immediate speculation that implied there was a link to this incident with the ongoing homicide investigation. We urge residents to remain alert and vigilant. Additionally, we remind the public (& media) that investigative releases of information will be through official channels.
###